I would like to know others people oppinion about Workboat production cost

[Gort]

I would prefer to see work boats removed from the game and their functions taken over by workers.

 

[Bromar1]

I would prefer to see work boats removed from the game and their functions taken over by workers.

That's a pretty good idea. Just take the Samurai fishing boat ability and tack it on to workers.

 

[Gazebo]

I would prefer to see work boats removed from the game and their functions taken over by workers.

Not gonna happen - AI needs them.

G

 

[kaspergm]

Not gonna happen - AI needs them.

G

Will AI be unable to use them if you make Workboats work like normal Workers, ie. remove the one-shot property of the workboat and make them multi-use as the land-based workers?

 

[Gazebo]

Will AI be unable to use them if you make Workboats work like normal Workers, ie. remove the one-shot property of the workboat and make them multi-use as the land-based workers?

No, as the entire sea-resource model does not evaluate work-time, just binary presence/not-presence.

G

 

[Gamewizard]

The one thing Civ BE did right was eliminate the work boat and allow workers to improve sea tiles.

 

[Gazebo]

The one thing Civ BE did right was eliminate the work boat and allow workers to improve sea tiles.

Yes, but Civ 5 != Civ BE.

G

 

[phantomaxl1207]

One thing I would like to see is Atolls (Isles) being changed to be be "Sea Hills" instead of just an early "Improved Fish" Tile. Having them give 2 Food and 4 Production instead of 4 Food and 2 Production.

 

[Bromar1]

One thing I would like to see is Atolls (Isles) being changed to be be "Sea Hills" instead of just an early "Improved Fish" Tile. Having them give 2 Food and 4 Production instead of 4 Food and 2 Production.

Seems like it might make coastal cities a touch too strong right off the bat. I'd like this idea, however, if you could use workboats on atolls to get that 4 production 2 food. Not sure what you'd call that improvement though lol

 

[Llednar Twem]

Yeah, atolls have always been in a weird spot since their yields are largely static and they can't be improved. As a result they're either overpowered early game and useful all game or balanced early game but useless late game. Lake and oasis tiles have the same problem to a degree. It probably just comes down to them being features, not resources. Not much that can be done about that.

 

[Kolaris]

Can they get tech bonuses the same way improvements do?

 

[Funak]

Yeah, atolls have always been in a weird spot since their yields are largely static and they can't be improved. As a result they're either overpowered early game and useful all game or balanced early game but useless late game. Lake and oasis tiles have the same problem to a degree. It probably just comes down to them being features, not resources. Not much that can be done about that.

You could add atoll bonuses to some buildings, lighthouse harbor seaport perhaps. The same thing should probably be done with Oasis as they also get rather useless once you're passed the ancient era.

 

[Gidoza]

I'm also agreed that about a 25% cost reduction would be appropriate. Maybe drop it to 55?

 

[Atlas627]

Is it possible to use the "Number of Spreads" mechanic that missionaries have and make work boats able to, say, improve twice before disbanding? I like the high cost and thus opportunity cost, but I think the reward is too low.

 

[Coilean]

Add me to the consensus that thinks fishing boats are overpriced. I hardly ever build fishing boats in my capital or first expos until more than halfway through the Classic era.

Among things that are CHEAPER than a work boat we have: well, warrior, granary, archer.

Things that cost 0-30% hammers more than a work boat include: spearman, worker, dromon, trireme, caravan.

And for less than the price of 2 workboats you could have a number of things, including settler, lighthouse, water mill, library and market, just to name a few.

 

[Coilean]

And for curiosity about general perception what about the other part of the question, what is you opinion about useful of sea tiles compared to land tiles?

In general, I think coastal cities are weak. The only thing good about them is in the late game: a new city can plop down on the coast and get a large number of immediately improved tiles with one building (seaport). But in general, coast tiles are crappy food compared to farms (4f1g vs 5-8f), and population is where the power is, even moreso in CBP than vanilla.

Also, sea trade routes are worse than land trade routes. Not sure why that changed in CBP, but it is mathematical fact: it only takes one decent river city in your empire for +158% land trade routes (125% + 33%), vs the flat +150% for a sea route. This is only compounded by the fact that land tiles yield more strategic/luxury resource variety than water tiles, further weakening sea trade routes.

 

[Gort]

What if work boats were free (or really cheap, like 10 hammers, in case having infinity work boats is exploitable somehow) but took a bit of time to improve their tile and disappear?

 

[PurpleMentat]

What if work boats were free (or really cheap, like 10 hammers, in case having infinity work boats is exploitable somehow) but took a bit of time to improve their tile and disappear?

I believe Gazebo said we can't teach the AI to evaluate a time cost on improving water resources. It's hardcoded to assume instant workboat usage.

 

[Atlas627]

In general, I think coastal cities are weak. The only thing good about them is in the late game: a new city can plop down on the coast and get a large number of immediately improved tiles with one building (seaport). But in general, coast tiles are crappy food compared to farms (4f1g vs 5-8f), and population is where the power is, even moreso in CBP than vanilla.

Also, sea trade routes are worse than land trade routes. Not sure why that changed in CBP, but it is mathematical fact: it only takes one decent river city in your empire for +158% land trade routes (125% + 33%), vs the flat +150% for a sea route. This is only compounded by the fact that land tiles yield more strategic/luxury resource variety than water tiles, further weakening sea trade routes.

I agree about the trade route thing. I'm really not sure why/when that happened. But I still use sea trade routes because they are much more free from barbs and because I can get tourism bonuses with civs on the other continent, so they aren't strictly worse.

 

[Funak]

I agree about the trade route thing. I'm really not sure why/when that happened. But I still use sea trade routes because they are much more free from barbs and because I can get tourism bonuses with civs on the other continent, so they aren't strictly worse.

Land traderoutes start out stronger but I'm pretty sure sea traderoutes eventually over-take them. Also one or the other isn't necessarily supposed to be a clear choice, I mean all shipping isn't done by sea today.

EDIT: Yes I realize that most shipping is actually done by sea, but not all of it.