Well, the OP is busy with exams, so I don't really see a problem with people throwing suggestions around
As far as researchlabs go, yeah I said that as well, giving America another lategame unique building would be a disaster.
Idea/Project : Vox Populi 3rd and 4th Unique Components
- Thread starter Hinin
- Start date
Well, the OP is busy with exams, so I don't really see a problem with people throwing suggestions around
As far as researchlabs go, yeah I said that as well, giving America another lategame unique building would be a disaster.
I got an idea perhaps rework Latifundia. Why not make it a plantation replacement...
+2P +2G +2C +2F (then becomes +3P +3G +3C +3F) then (+4P +4G +4C +4F) +1
and +1 
to all adjacent luxury and bonus resources ; +1 +1 
to all adjacent farms
This definitely juices it up. Remember that means most likely you can have less but by making it more powerful it keeps the player using it. as they were. Roman Wine villas etc... by making it a plantation replacement to be placed ON resources you can be more fitting... Rome needs the culture buff.
+2P +2G +2C +2F (then becomes +3P +3G +3C +3F) then (+4P +4G +4C +4F) +1
and +1 to all adjacent luxury and bonus resources ; +1 +1 to all adjacent farmsThis definitely juices it up. Remember that means most likely you can have less but by making it more powerful it keeps the player using it. as they were. Roman Wine villas etc... by making it a plantation replacement to be placed ON resources you can be more fitting... Rome needs the culture buff.
Taegi Kim
Chieftain
I don't know you can 'replace' the improvements. Also, I don't think rome needs culture doesn't mean they have to get one. Rome's main focus is infrastructre and conquest, and I'm fine with that. As mentioned before, I don't want to see 43 all-arounder civs. Plus, there are too many UIs that gives extra cultre, food, gold and production.I got an idea perhaps rework Latifundia. Why not make it a plantation replacement...
+2P +2G +2C +2F (then becomes +3P +3G +3C +3F) then (+4P +4G +4C +4F) +1
This definitely juices it up. Remember that means most likely you can have less but by making it more powerful it keeps the player using it. as they were. Roman Wine villas etc... by making it a plantation replacement to be placed ON resources you can be more fitting... Rome needs the culture buff.
Honestly they really Should the roman empire was all about governance. Social policies and infrastructure. If rome is to receive a improvement instead of a building then that improvement should probably have more than a single culture yield. if anything the
+2P +2G +1C should be +2P +2G +2C (then +1 +1 +1) then (+1 +1 +1)
+2P +2G +1C should be +2P +2G +2C (then +1 +1 +1) then (+1 +1 +1)
Joey Diamond
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2016
- Messages
- 80
May i chime in a little bit about Siam's UB?
That Thhar Kenth thing was really bland. It basically translated to Conscript. And the practice of drafting(coercing) men from city states in controlled wasn't even unique to Siam or anyone in particular.
I suggest that it could be change to either the "Gattling Mounted War Elephant" or the "Crouching Tiger Coastal Cannon".
-Gattling Mounted War Elephant were actually used in a jointed operation with the Laotian to quell a rebellion by the Chinese Minority in 1865. In terms of unit. It could replace the cavalry with higer attack, lower speed and Feared elephant promotion.
-Crouching Tiger Coastal Cannon, Also called the Armstrong Gun. Was the most advanced cannon Siam has at that time(around the same time as above). It saw action 'some' actions in the French invasion of Siam. These guns could've held all the french warships from make a landing or even force them to stranding on high tide. Unfortunately, the corruption and indecisiveness of Siamese commanding officers allows The French to established a beachhead and forced Siam to concede. As a unit. The Crouching Tiger could replace the cannon, Same damage, lower movement due to being a semi-fixed gun emplacement. With some very specific and situational bonus: +attack against warship and +attack in friendly territory. To emphasize on Siam defensive nature.
Source: Me, a Thai/Siamese
That Thhar Kenth thing was really bland. It basically translated to Conscript. And the practice of drafting(coercing) men from city states in controlled wasn't even unique to Siam or anyone in particular.
I suggest that it could be change to either the "Gattling Mounted War Elephant" or the "Crouching Tiger Coastal Cannon".
-Gattling Mounted War Elephant were actually used in a jointed operation with the Laotian to quell a rebellion by the Chinese Minority in 1865. In terms of unit. It could replace the cavalry with higer attack, lower speed and Feared elephant promotion.
-Crouching Tiger Coastal Cannon, Also called the Armstrong Gun. Was the most advanced cannon Siam has at that time(around the same time as above). It saw action 'some' actions in the French invasion of Siam. These guns could've held all the french warships from make a landing or even force them to stranding on high tide. Unfortunately, the corruption and indecisiveness of Siamese commanding officers allows The French to established a beachhead and forced Siam to concede. As a unit. The Crouching Tiger could replace the cannon, Same damage, lower movement due to being a semi-fixed gun emplacement. With some very specific and situational bonus: +attack against warship and +attack in friendly territory. To emphasize on Siam defensive nature.
Source: Me, a Thai/Siamese
Taegi Kim
Chieftain
I like the Crouching Tiger Coastal Cannon(I think the Thai name would be better). It has a unique niche that fits well with the original cannon. I found that cannons and siege weapons are really useful when defending coastlines. So having a unique cannon that gains bonus against ships sounds neat. But I don't think having a lower movement would be necessary.
Joey Diamond
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2016
- Messages
- 80
Well, The cannon's name was really 'Seir Morb' (เสือหมอบ) which translates to 'Crouching Tiger' and is definitely easier to read for English user. And the reason it should have lower movement because it was never really meant to be that mobile in real life and Siam player usually gets invaded instead of being invader. The main tactics always revolve around cranking units and gifting them to both protect CS and boosting its relationship while raking in their bonus with Siam's own unique ability, all while the opponent slowly losing all their time and resources. So the normal movement weren't really necessary. And lets not ignore the possiblity of a cannon that might kill ship in one shot and can even potentially shut down naval warfare by itself, since it has +damage against warship and +damage in friendly territory and these conditions are really easy to fullfill.
On the latisfunda why not +1 culture increase the build times... (I'm pulling for it because playing against Rome could be funner that way)...
YGAEMP Marathon as Poland... Civ 4 traits. Swapping out traits to give all Europeans +Vietnam, China, and Japan Creative and dropping spiritual and creative for 1 for 3 means super powered civs mega religions and its quite cool. Last time England wiped out Scotland, Ireland. Denmark took out Netherlands, Askia took Morocco, Portugal, Spain, Nri. Basically it was coming down to the Superpowered Poland 9 (Austria wiped out Germany I wiped out Austria) cities tech leader, Songhai HUGE many cities, Assyria (took Babylon), Arabia. One major complain india man Every single game they expand upwards. the Indian subcontinent gets settled by Bhutan, Persia and Afghanistan.
With these components I'm ALL about Japan. or Persia those extra armor spearmen and extra armor calv plus the great person popper. Could easily take Dehli, Kabul, and Sogdiana. Perhaps Babylon.
YGAEMP Marathon as Poland... Civ 4 traits. Swapping out traits to give all Europeans +Vietnam, China, and Japan Creative and dropping spiritual and creative for 1 for 3 means super powered civs mega religions and its quite cool. Last time England wiped out Scotland, Ireland. Denmark took out Netherlands, Askia took Morocco, Portugal, Spain, Nri. Basically it was coming down to the Superpowered Poland 9 (Austria wiped out Germany I wiped out Austria) cities tech leader, Songhai HUGE many cities, Assyria (took Babylon), Arabia. One major complain india man Every single game they expand upwards. the Indian subcontinent gets settled by Bhutan, Persia and Afghanistan.
With these components I'm ALL about Japan. or Persia those extra armor spearmen and extra armor calv plus the great person popper. Could easily take Dehli, Kabul, and Sogdiana. Perhaps Babylon.
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I like how everyone talks about this idea yet there's no developer behind the scene to even start on the civilizations that are solid already and do not need any more discussions.
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BazaarJack
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2017
- Messages
- 55
Hello - I see the thread. I'll start researching... found this thread so far - >
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ity-civilization-modmod.619487/#post-14801949
Also, need a plan of action - I'll work on getting a uploaded to Steam Workshop and add UCs for one CIV. Let's see if we can figure out which one would be the easiest for POC (Proof of Concept).
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ity-civilization-modmod.619487/#post-14801949
Also, need a plan of action - I'll work on getting a uploaded to Steam Workshop and add UCs for one CIV. Let's see if we can figure out which one would be the easiest for POC (Proof of Concept).
Blue Ghost
King
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2016
- Messages
- 710
I had been planning to take on this project after I was finished with my Madoka mod compatibility series. There’s currently a lull there as I’m waiting for a custom event hook from Gazebo, so I’ll have some time to help with this as well.
BazaarJack
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2017
- Messages
- 55
I think 4 is the magic number, and I'd like to make use of the work the OP started in this thread. There has already been some significant discussion here, so let's try to use it. However, in the first iteration, I'm not going to be writing custom lua, etc. I'd like to think of this as a Frankenstein modmod.. we'll take known existing components from the 3uc,4uc,5uc projects or whoever can point out simple, performant components from other custom civs. In a second iteration, we can try to work on balance and adding flavor.
A goal should be to work within the spirit of CIVs as they exist in the community mod, and not make changes that significantly change the existing strategy/playstyle. What we can do is make changes that shorten the distance between power spikes, expand the scope of the existing playstyle, or double down on current spikes. I think these additions will naturally create some inflation, so we may be forced to make some global modification to science or policy costs to compensate - although I have no clue how difficult that is.
Realistically, I can probably devote 10-15 hours a week on this. I'll send an update next week, when I can provide some guidance on timeline - right now it would be a total crapshoot.
A goal should be to work within the spirit of CIVs as they exist in the community mod, and not make changes that significantly change the existing strategy/playstyle. What we can do is make changes that shorten the distance between power spikes, expand the scope of the existing playstyle, or double down on current spikes. I think these additions will naturally create some inflation, so we may be forced to make some global modification to science or policy costs to compensate - although I have no clue how difficult that is.
Realistically, I can probably devote 10-15 hours a week on this. I'll send an update next week, when I can provide some guidance on timeline - right now it would be a total crapshoot.
Blue Ghost
King
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2016
- Messages
- 710
I think the best way to tackle a large, modular project like this is to have people volunteer to develop different pieces. We should have a rough vision of what the final product should look like, so all the developers are on the same page, but individual developers should take ownership of their components and decide how to get there. We're not going to be able to get community consensus on everything, so we need people to take charge.
For whatever part I end up doing, I'm planning to skew fairly closely to the OP's proposals, as I think they're well thought out and in line with the existing unique components.
I propose we start a new thread to keep track of who's coding what civs, and coordinate the project. I can start the thread and handle the coordination, or someone else can if they want. Sound good?
For whatever part I end up doing, I'm planning to skew fairly closely to the OP's proposals, as I think they're well thought out and in line with the existing unique components.
I propose we start a new thread to keep track of who's coding what civs, and coordinate the project. I can start the thread and handle the coordination, or someone else can if they want. Sound good?
pineappledan
Deity
Just finished looking through the entire OP. Here are my thoughts on some of the things that stuck out to me, but this of course isn't exhaustive:
America - Trailblazer: There's been a lot of discussion concerning this UU, but as it's described in the OP right now it's just laughably overpowered. A pathfinder replacement that can settle with any buildings researched pre-built? That's a settler with free buildings that you get to build before you have researched ACTUAL SETTLERS, that get free monuments, minimum. That is completely absurd. Regardless, with the Ranch already slated as the civilian UU/UI/UB, you should be looking for a military UU anyways. ie. Nimitz carriers, Rough Riders, Monitor, etc.
Brazil - Samba School: With the latest era UU proposed already (Pracinha), having the latest era UB too is pretty damn crazy. That being said, the bonuses as presented right now are crazy game-ending hilariousness. It makes Brazil's playstyle just "survive", and I think that's pretty funny, especially given it's real-world position as the 'next rising power' for..... about 40 years now. Lol.
Byzantium - Hippodrome: absolutely required. Full stop. I know people were saying events/choices=bad, but there should be a prompt asking people to decide whether they support the Blues or the Greens. Nothing happens, but maybe there's a notification every so often that a riot happened at the hippodrome... again
Denmark - Ting: This building strikes me as having virtually nothing to do with Denmark's playstyle. imo they should get a mead hall replacement for the Garden. +food, +GP production, reduce boredom slightly.
Carthage - Shofet - Nothing bad to say, but I am pretty on the fence as to whether a unique general constitutes a unique civilian unit, and therefore isn't up-ending the civilian/military balance? Also, I was hoping to modify the Israel mod and make the Shofet their unique; so much for that.
Carthage - Numidian Cavalry - Why was this chosen over simply giving Carthage access to a war elephant that doesn't require ivory? The Carthaginian war elephants are way more iconic.
Egypt - Khopesh - unusual weapon seems like a strange choice. Khopeshi aren't really that strange; they aren't Shotel. imo they should get a promotion increasing their CS on attack, to reflect that Khopesh are effectively battle axes when used correctly. Their sickle blades are highly effective against unarmoured or lightly armoured adversaries, so maybe a +cs vs enemies with lower base CS (ie<15?)
Germany - Jaeger - When I first saw this I laughed, and hoped someone had actually proposed a GDR replacement, lol
Korea - Turtle Ship - I'm surprised you landed on Galleas as the replacement. Turtle ships were often used to ram other ships and fire broadsides at less than 20m. A caravel replacement seems much more appropriate. Also the Turtle ship's name in Korean is Geobukseon
Morocco - Menara Garden - in the state it is proposed in it is just way too weak and situational
Songhai - As the OP is now, the UU is completely missing. I'm guessing the Sofa is supposed to be there from the rest of the discussion?
Aztec - Eagle: As it is described in the OP, it actually sounds like a downgrade from the unit it replaces. Why not take a queue from civ VI and have the unit spawn a worker at the nearest owned city if it kills a unit? This reflects the Eagle warrior's famed ability to capture enemies in battle. Also could we change the name to cuāuhtli? Thats the proper name in Nahuatl
Celts - Oppidum: This looks to be about as good or better than a great person tile. In fact, Oppidum are essentially towns, so why not actually make this a UI replacement for towns, and add +3 great merchant points to all the Celtic pantheons?
Maya - Ball court: I'm not really a fan of adding happiness to UBs that aren't Persian Satrapys; That's kind of their jam. I'd reduce religious unrest or crime in addition to the arena's reduction in boredom. Otherwise, make the happiness conditional on city connections or something. The ball courts were often used in Mayan culture as a form of conflict resolution between squabbling city-states and nobility.
Lastly, okay, there is a SERIOUS lack of consistency on whether culturally relevant names are used or anglicized versions. Why refuse to call the ball court a pitz court, and yet call a stave church 'Stavkyrka'?
America - Trailblazer: There's been a lot of discussion concerning this UU, but as it's described in the OP right now it's just laughably overpowered. A pathfinder replacement that can settle with any buildings researched pre-built? That's a settler with free buildings that you get to build before you have researched ACTUAL SETTLERS, that get free monuments, minimum. That is completely absurd. Regardless, with the Ranch already slated as the civilian UU/UI/UB, you should be looking for a military UU anyways. ie. Nimitz carriers, Rough Riders, Monitor, etc.
Brazil - Samba School: With the latest era UU proposed already (Pracinha), having the latest era UB too is pretty damn crazy. That being said, the bonuses as presented right now are crazy game-ending hilariousness. It makes Brazil's playstyle just "survive", and I think that's pretty funny, especially given it's real-world position as the 'next rising power' for..... about 40 years now. Lol.
Byzantium - Hippodrome: absolutely required. Full stop. I know people were saying events/choices=bad, but there should be a prompt asking people to decide whether they support the Blues or the Greens. Nothing happens, but maybe there's a notification every so often that a riot happened at the hippodrome... again
Denmark - Ting: This building strikes me as having virtually nothing to do with Denmark's playstyle. imo they should get a mead hall replacement for the Garden. +food, +GP production, reduce boredom slightly.
Carthage - Shofet - Nothing bad to say, but I am pretty on the fence as to whether a unique general constitutes a unique civilian unit, and therefore isn't up-ending the civilian/military balance? Also, I was hoping to modify the Israel mod and make the Shofet their unique; so much for that.
Carthage - Numidian Cavalry - Why was this chosen over simply giving Carthage access to a war elephant that doesn't require ivory? The Carthaginian war elephants are way more iconic.
Egypt - Khopesh - unusual weapon seems like a strange choice. Khopeshi aren't really that strange; they aren't Shotel. imo they should get a promotion increasing their CS on attack, to reflect that Khopesh are effectively battle axes when used correctly. Their sickle blades are highly effective against unarmoured or lightly armoured adversaries, so maybe a +cs vs enemies with lower base CS (ie<15?)
Germany - Jaeger - When I first saw this I laughed, and hoped someone had actually proposed a GDR replacement, lol
Korea - Turtle Ship - I'm surprised you landed on Galleas as the replacement. Turtle ships were often used to ram other ships and fire broadsides at less than 20m. A caravel replacement seems much more appropriate. Also the Turtle ship's name in Korean is Geobukseon
Morocco - Menara Garden - in the state it is proposed in it is just way too weak and situational
Songhai - As the OP is now, the UU is completely missing. I'm guessing the Sofa is supposed to be there from the rest of the discussion?
Aztec - Eagle: As it is described in the OP, it actually sounds like a downgrade from the unit it replaces. Why not take a queue from civ VI and have the unit spawn a worker at the nearest owned city if it kills a unit? This reflects the Eagle warrior's famed ability to capture enemies in battle. Also could we change the name to cuāuhtli? Thats the proper name in Nahuatl
Celts - Oppidum: This looks to be about as good or better than a great person tile. In fact, Oppidum are essentially towns, so why not actually make this a UI replacement for towns, and add +3 great merchant points to all the Celtic pantheons?
Maya - Ball court: I'm not really a fan of adding happiness to UBs that aren't Persian Satrapys; That's kind of their jam. I'd reduce religious unrest or crime in addition to the arena's reduction in boredom. Otherwise, make the happiness conditional on city connections or something. The ball courts were often used in Mayan culture as a form of conflict resolution between squabbling city-states and nobility.
Lastly, okay, there is a SERIOUS lack of consistency on whether culturally relevant names are used or anglicized versions. Why refuse to call the ball court a pitz court, and yet call a stave church 'Stavkyrka'?
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I guess I'll do Rome. UW campus Marius, UI Latifundia, UU equites or a dummy building called auxilia allowing Rome to train unique units of civs it has conqured for greatly increased purchasing cost. And I guess the Vietnamese Nubia
Latifundia culture gold production UI
Campus Marius as described.
Latifundia culture gold production UI
Campus Marius as described.
