Maniacal
the green Napoleon
I'd buy it if the game is good and not broken and unfinished upon release.
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Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
Ideas for Total War games after Empire.
- Thread starter LightSpectra
- Start date
Interesting dates, there.
Dachs what do you think of the ETW warpath mod?
Elta
我不会把这种
Excuse me I should have said 1503 (Battle of Cerignola) to 1643 (Battle of Rocroi)
The clear beginning of Pike and Shot as a dominant force, and it's *end.
* The beginning of it's end, no doubt that there were more battles for 40 years or so won my Tercios, but it was clear in 1643 that they could be beat.
I actually liked it, thought it was a decent campaign. Played through it with the Cherokee, it was kinda fun overrunning the American settlements and dismantling all of the signs of Western civilization.
But I dunno if it's really worth several play throughs - I'm not sure how different each play experience is, with different factions. Haven't tried it yet. At least you get extra stuff to do in skirmishes, like play as and against the natives. And I'm not gonna lie, the tech tree for the natives is pretty cool.Overall, then, I'd be on the fence.
Pike and shot was over at Rocroi? Somebody should tell Carl XII!
Pike use as shock infantry wasn't over until the ring bayonet, not by a long shot.Elta said:
Elta
我不会把这种
I didn't say it was over at Rocroi in my post.
What I said was that it was clear that it could be beaten. At Rocroi is was clear that you could beat a Tercio without resorting to using one your self. Having the game go past 1648 would be silly because by then it was clear that the Flintlock totally changed war, and it was clear that you could win battles without pikemen.
Yes it was still a good idea to protect artillery with pikemen from getting flanked and rushed by Cavalry. And yes it is a good idea to give a large group of men pikes when they do not know how to use a gun, or when there are no guns available for them.
The fact of the matter is there was very little use for pikemen at that point, if you knew what you were doing.
Furthermore I said that pikes were still being used until about 40 years later. (At most another 40 years after that by very stubborn generals)
And guess what, the ring bayonet came into wide spread use about 40 years later. Just as I said
What I said was that it was clear that it could be beaten. At Rocroi is was clear that you could beat a Tercio without resorting to using one your self. Having the game go past 1648 would be silly because by then it was clear that the Flintlock totally changed war, and it was clear that you could win battles without pikemen.
Yes it was still a good idea to protect artillery with pikemen from getting flanked and rushed by Cavalry. And yes it is a good idea to give a large group of men pikes when they do not know how to use a gun, or when there are no guns available for them.
The fact of the matter is there was very little use for pikemen at that point, if you knew what you were doing.
Furthermore I said that pikes were still being used until about 40 years later. (At most another 40 years after that by very stubborn generals)
And guess what, the ring bayonet came into wide spread use about 40 years later. Just as I said
What are the campaign dates for the game? I'd like a scenario with the Aztecs or Incas. Have you (or anyone) loaded any of the ETW mods?
You're vastly overrating the lack of use of pikes and the significance of a single engagement, and willfully ignoring the record of the next seventy years of warfare in which pikemen continued to play an integral part and decisive role.I didn't say it was over at Rocroi in my post.
What I said was that it was clear that it could be beaten. At Rocroi is was clear that you could beat a Tercio without resorting to using one your self. Having the game go past 1648 would be silly because by then it was clear that the Flintlock totally changed war, and it was clear that you could win battles without pikemen.
Yes it was still a good idea to protect artillery with pikemen from getting flanked and rushed by Cavalry. And yes it is a good idea to give a large group of men pikes when they do not know how to use a gun, or when there are no guns available for them.
The fact of the matter is there was very little use for pikemen at that point, if you knew what you were doing.
Furthermore I said that pikes were still being used until about 40 years later. (At most another 40 years after that by very stubborn generals)
And guess what, the ring bayonet came into wide spread use about 40 years later. Just as I said
ETW itself is 1700-1800, but you can keep playing after 1800. Warpath is 1783-1823.
Aztecs and Incas - well, Aztecs anyway - are in M2TW: Kingdoms.Birdjaguar said:
I only keep the realistic flags loaded.LightSpectra
me autem minui
The defeat at Rocroi was a result of the Spanish cavalry being routed, followed by the infantry being encircled. The Tercio was not personally defeated; it was still a highly effective formation, for arguably another 100 years.
Elta
我不会把这种
Integral and decisive role.
Sure, they could be used effectively - But there is no denying the fact that from then on the amount of pikemen in an army were becoming less and less each year. By 1700 they were entirely irrelevant. A game called "Pike and Shot Total War" Would revolve around it's dominant era. Not it's dominant era and it's decline and fall. It has never been the theme of any Total War.
The fact of the matter is, the flintlock muskets increased firepower/accuracy/ease of use is what signaled the end of the Pike era. Not ring bayonets. There is no sense in having a pike and shot total war go beyond 1643.
The Terico was arguably effective in 1743?
That is just silly. 
Jos Ballenbak
Zombiehunter, duh.....
You are going off thread with this pike stuff.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
The Terico was arguably effective in 1743?
Actually, yeah, you're right. I should've said something closer to 50 years. I believe the Tercio was used with some success at Toulon during the War of Spanish Succession.
Elta
我不会把这种
Yes I would say 50 years too.
Okay Lets not go off topic anymore
Okay Lets not go off topic anymore
You're ignoring half of Europe, the fact that logically it makes zero sense for CA to make a game that stops sixty years short of their next game in the timeline for the reason that "pikes were still used but they weren't as important in some parts of the European continent according to some people", and the fact that you basically just pulled that "dominant era" crap out of your ass.
Elta
我不会把这种
That's the point.
The game should not go all the way until the next era. If it goes to 1700 why not just keep going to the 1800 and beyond?
The game should not go all the way until the next era. If it goes to 1700 why not just keep going to the 1800 and beyond?
Jos Ballenbak
Zombiehunter, duh.....
And what if they would do a fantasy based total war game?
...because...there's...already...a...game...that...does...that...
Mmmh. I wouldn't buy it, but I suppose the Third Age crowd might be interested to see if CA can do them one better.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
If CA does better than a mod I would be surprised.
Yes CA has to do ALL the work where as the mods just build (or tear down the roof and rebuild) off CA's work, but the comparison between say Europa Barbarorum or Stainless Steel 2 to the vanilla versions makes vanilla look even more awful.
Yes CA has to do ALL the work where as the mods just build (or tear down the roof and rebuild) off CA's work, but the comparison between say Europa Barbarorum or Stainless Steel 2 to the vanilla versions makes vanilla look even more awful.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
He could have made a far better case with Breitenfield and Rain, but then that whole "English Civil War" thing kind of discredits any impressions of immediate and lasting significance tactically speaking.
CA did do better than a mod. Compare Napoleon 2 to ETW.
Caroline infantry system...Similar threads
