If it were possible always to play at your level, would you want that?

If it were possible always to play at your level, would you want that?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 34.7%
  • No

    Votes: 47 65.3%

  • Total voters
    72

Matrix

CFC Dinosaur
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As you all know, playing the GOTM means playing on the same map. Would you like it if it were possible to choose the difficulty yourself?

I think that if we had that option, it would be great! Everyone can play at the level that fits to his/her skill and it's also fair because you get more point when you play at a higher difficulty level. :)
 
I think it would be a good idea. But just one question. Would the scores be separated by difficulty level, or at least indicated on the results page? I haven't played the two hardest levels, but many people think the scoring between emperor and deity is not fair. Emperor is X5 for score and Deity is X6, but really deity should be more like a X7 factor, because the bonuses of the AI on deity so much greater than on Emperor. So scores on emperor could be higher than on deity in several cases.

But, in any case, it does allow people of all skill levels to participate in the GOTM, without having new players killed off in the B.C.s on an Emperor/deity game, or the very skilled players bored with a chieftain/warlord game.
 
They would all come in the same ranking; that's the idea. I'd make another column in the list where it shows at what difficulty level one has played.

I'd like to make it clear: this is not possible...yet. Firaxis might be willing to assist us in this, if there is enough support for it. ;)
 
I voted "no" because that was my initial reaction. I'm not sure how it would significantly improve things or really attract more people... Keeping it simple like it is now is fine, IMHO. I don't get put off if there's a game I don't want to play, I just come back next month. Adding some formulaic scoring multi-level table might be too much? Or, am I just one of those people who doesn't like to change anything? :)

I like the even playing field now, even if it means that not all people are challenged/over their head. I think it allows the better players a chance to try different things on lower levels and newer players the chance to see what the good players are doing on the high levels.
 
I don't think it is a good idea. The idea of the GOTM is that everyone plays the SAME game. That means not just the map, but the difficulty too. By having multiple difficulties, you would no longer get the same kind of even comparison across the board. For example, I strongly doubt that many of the best players have ever played a warlord map, or at least not in a long time. By having everyone on warlord, it forces you to try different strategies (like actually doing research! :crazyeye: ) than what you're used to.

Also, right now it is theoretically possible for anyone to make good decisions, have some luck in battle, and win the GOTM. If all difficulties are specified, only those playing Emperor or Deity will have any chance to win due to the scoring system. I dunno, I just like the thought that everyone else is playing the same game as me - maybe I'm just weird :cool:
 
Good points Sullla! The scoring would be imbalanced, and everyone wouldn't be playing the same game. I started GOTM6 with an approach which would (I think) have worked better at Emperor level - the AIs behavior is different at Warlord and it is a different game as a result.

I'm glad I read this thread before voting. I started out inclined to vote yes, but the notes on this thread quickly changed my mind and I voted no. :)
 
TF also disagreed to the idea. I guess we can forget it then. And you all got a good point too, so...

It was just a thought. ;)
 
Even though it would be nice to play on an easier level i like the way we GOTM right now. Even though i can't beat emperor its fun and i like to read the strategies used by some other players after i'm finished with my game.
GOTM5 went horrible for me but i checked out the whole thread after finishing and got some good ideas from it.

Leave it like it is.

Also if you were to change it and i played on a harder difficulty i'd end up last. Atleast currently i end up a little better than last. :crazyeye: :D
 
hehe.... my argument is nearly the same as Sulla's. :)

[16:42] Thunderfall: in your email to Jeff, what do u mean by the first idea?
[16:42] Thunderfall: u said we can allow people to change the game to any level they want?
[16:43] Matrix: No, I can do that. Then people can choose which savegame/difficulty level they can download and play.
[16:43] Matrix: brb
[16:44] Thunderfall: ic
[16:44] Thunderfall: I don't think it's necessary. One good thing about GOTM is that it forces you to play on a specifc level.
[16:45] Matrix: I hope Jeff understands it, now that you don't...
[16:45] Thunderfall: and another key benefit of GOTM is you are sure that eveyrone is playing the same game.
[16:45] Thunderfall: That's the biggest plus of GOTM
[16:46] Matrix: But does that include the difficulty level? That's always been the toughest point: some people always find it too easy or too hard.
[16:47] Thunderfall: difficulty level is a major factor that makes games different
[16:47] Thunderfall: If u allow people to pick any level they want to play, some people would never dare to try deity. :)
[16:48] Thunderfall: They prolly will stick with Chiftain every month.
[16:48] Matrix: Hmm... I've made a topic about it in the forum. Perhaps you should answer there too then.
[16:49] Thunderfall: It's good to hear people say"wow, I don't know I can survive on Monarch! Before this GOTM I always play on Chieftain, Now I'll play Monarhc w/o fear". ;)
[16:49] Matrix: Perhaps I've sent that email to Jeff too fast then. :-(
[16:49] *** Auto-response sent to Matrix: Studying.... :(
[16:50] Matrix: What "studying"?
[16:50] Thunderfall: GOTM puts everyone on the same boat, and that's most important. :) Anyway, gotta get back to my study. I have an exam on Wednesday. :(
 
I have to agree with the majority here, in that the varying difficulties make for a more interesting GOTM. However, I think some folks may not find playing certain difficulties very enjoyable. Additionally, those folks who find the higher difficulties to be an extreme challenge, will always be at the bottom third of the ranking and miss out on the oppurtunity to achieve medals.

I know this has been discussed many times on this board, but why not have two GOTM's? Both using the same map, but one to be a Chieftan-Regent difficulty and the other to be Monarch-Diety. That way more people play within their own difficulty levels, and more folks have an oppurtunity to achieve medal status and to compete for the top third ranking of their bracket. I understand that two GOTM's would mean twice as much work for Matrix if he were to take the full responsiblity of both games. So I would suggest that Matrix deputize a couple of helpers to delegate some of the extra work.

While I'm here I'd like to express my appreciation for these well done GOTM's. The Global Rankings and Game Statistics are a realy nice addition. Of the half dozen or so community games like this that I've found, CivFanactics is by far the best and if I found myself with only time to play one GOTM, this will be the one. So many thanks to Matrix and all of the GOTM'ers who make this happen.
 
A couple more thoughts :frog:

I agree with Thunderfall and the others who find value in playing different difficulty levels. Up until GOTM#4 I had only played a couple of unsuccesfull Emperor games, and if I had received that poor a starting position in a normal game, I probably would have restarted and tried for a better start. But because the game was a GOTM I played it through completion. As a result I played one of my most challenging and enjoyable games. Call me a sadist, but having to scramble and come up with creative solutions just to stay alive in the game, was great fun. Anyway, I see the value of the current system and how gamers can be challenged to play games beyond their normal difficulty level. But I also see how some of our fellow gamers may be losing out on the competitive challenge when they play games that are way out of thier skill level. The gamers who are at the highest skill level will be those that consistantly place in the top third of the rankings. There is a lot of disparity between the highest skilled players and the average. The result being that only a small group of gamers actually compete for medals and top third rankings.

Since there is such disparity amongst skill levels, I think that having two GOTM's would benefit everyone. Especially those that place in the bottom third of the rankings. They would now be able to compete for medals and top finishes within their own skill bracket. And those of the highest skill levels can play the games that will challenge them the most.

I would also suggest that anyone should be able to play any game they wish, and both if they so desire. However only the first game(in the case of identical maps) will be an official submittion. Each skill level would have it's own ranking and medal awards, but each gamer would only be allowed to submit one official game for one of the two skill levels each month. This would allow novice players to play and submit a game for their level, but it would also allow them to play and then discuss in the forum the higher difficulty game. It would also allow them to progress to the next level of rankings when they feel they are ready. It appears to me to be the best way to give all of our fellow gamers a more competitive game, while at the same time allowing novice gamers to participate in and learn from the higher difficulty games.

One more thought. If a two bracket game is not possible or not desired by the gamers, then I would suggest that the easier difficulty games be made with a challenging starting position or game scenario; and that the higher difficulties have good starting positions and an easier scenario. By scenario I mean the placement of resources, starting positions of the AI opponents, etc.

One more, one more thought. At the time I started this post there were only like sixteen votes and only eight different posters. So only a very small segment of this gaming community has responded to this thread. Perhaps if people have more time to respond, the results of the poll will differ. So if your reading this post and haven't voted; stand up and be counted!!! :yinyang:
 
We have to remember that not everyone plays GOTMs just to try and get the high score. Many people play recreationally, and their needs really do conflict with the needs of the power gamers who want an exciting hunt for the high score.

I imagine that if you had a choice of levels, were a good player and were really going for score, you would play Diety (because of the score multiplier) receiving a very, very tough challenge. If you were a recreational player, you might play Regent or Warlord, and win the game comfortably, without too much micromanaging.

Unfortunately, the advanced players lose out with the current system, since low level games pretty much guarantee a "campaign of milking" for them. There might be a perverse few on these boards who enjoy a good milking more than hanging on to life by your fingernails, but I'm certainly not such a player. If the conditions are right, I can win a Diety game as often as not, so that's where the tension and gamesmanship is for me.

And about the "allowing different levels means we're no longer playing the same game" objection: I guess I don't see it this way. Choosing a level would amount to something like choosing a victory type to aim for. It would be a strategic decision based on your preferences, style and strengths. There would be tradeoffs, like the many other tradeoffs that make Civ3 decisions so interesting. At the start of each month you'd wonder "Do I go for a longshot and try to get a conquest in Diety, or do I play it safe an milk a Monarch game, hoping that the people who try to shoot the moon all fail?"

I would personally love this new dimension of choice. I know the votes right now are against it, and the implementation might be tricky, but I still think it would make GOTMs better for everyone.
 
well, i think i would vote for no because....

the start can influence the level of play quite considerably
one month, deity might be very winnable, another, u would get wiped out after 5 turns (exaggeration but u see my point)


all i am really trying to say is, if i pick monach (the level i normally play), one month i have a big advantage and another a big disadvantage

i would just rather win or lose based on what i do during the game, not on an uninformed choice as to what level to play at.



btw, on aployton, the saved game had no goody huts - i think making the game fairer - less luck - an early settler can imbalance the game etc

im not surfe how it was done, but im sure they would be happy to help
 
Well I would agree first of all that there are indeed many benefits to be gained from having multiple difficulty levels for the GOTM. I just feel that those benefits are not as good as what we would have to give up to get them :)

For example, having multiple difficulties would give everyone a better chance to win and play at their most comfortable level. Players used to chieftan or warlord could stay in their comfort level, and those masochistic players who enjoy deity could stay there. So why do I object to such a seemingly nice plan?

Well, I suppose I feel that it goes against the spirit of the GOTM game. To me, the game isn't really about score at all(though when I'm having a good game like this month I'll certainly see how well I can do! :p). It's more about reading how others handled the same situations in the spoilers thread, and talking with other players about what I could have done to improve. It's meant to be a casual contest, and I honestly think most people take it that way. We all want to win, but coming in 90th place doesn't seem to deter many people. In fact, the near-unanimous comment on the spoiler threads after a loss is "I can't wait for the next GOTM so I can do better!" My impression (and I could be wrong here) is that most people seem happy with the current system, knowing that some games will be quite easy and others impossibly hard. But it's not really about the games at all; it's about the shared experience of playing the same game.

Consider the situation if the proposal goes through and we have multiple difficulties. Now I'm not going to go into any details since this isn't the spoilers thread, but let me say I would have played the current GOTM drastically differently if the game had been on say emperor instead of warlord. Pace of expansion, opposition of AI, buying vs. researching techs, overall speed of tech acquisition: all of these things change enormously between difficulty levels. I honestly feel that these change the game enough to make it not the same for all. Would players in GOTM#2 have had the same experience with the Romans if some had been playing on monarch (the actual level) and others on warlord (new proposal)? I don't think that would have been the case; we would need a spoilers thread for each difficulty level if you wanted to hear from people who were experiencing the same situations as you. At least in my opinion :D

Ok, now for another aspect of the GOTM: how about the LEARNING aspect of the games? All you have to do is look at our esteemed moderator Matrix to see that playing in the GOTM each month can make you a better player ;) If everyone plays different levels in their comfort level, they are less likely to improve at the game. OK, I know everyone isn't interested in being the best out there. But at least to me, GOTM is about playing out of your comfort zone in the interest of comparing yourself to other players. Sure you might get destroyed in 350BC (which I fully expect would happen to me in a Deity game :)) but if so, have you really lost anything? No one will make fun of you for losing, and if you read what others did, it might help you out in another game. My single-player games are for practicing at a comfortable level; GOTM is my wildcard game that could be anything. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me on that, but it works for me. :)

Finally, the last reason why we need to keep the GOTM is because it's the only time everyone is playing the EXACT SAME game. Keep it simple, right? It's the same reason why American colleges require an SAT score - that's the only test that EVERY high school student in the country takes, so it provides a better way to evaluate applicants than grades, which can fluctuate widely in different areas. More than one difficulty destroys the very simplicity which is why we're playing the game in the first place! Keep it simple and keep it in one game. :goodjob:

I thought of something else. Here's what spork said about it:
Choosing a level would amount to something like choosing a victory type to aim for. It would be a strategic decision based on your preferences, style and strengths. There would be tradeoffs, like the many other tradeoffs that make Civ3 decisions so interesting. At the start of each month you'd wonder "Do I go for a longshot and try to get a conquest in Diety, or do I play it safe an milk a Monarch game, hoping that the people who try to shoot the moon all fail?"
It sounds nice, but this presents its own problems. What if you are one of the players who is in it just for score (though I don't think we have many of those) and you choose incorrectly before the game starts? Then you've lost your chance to win even before the game starts! Weighing tradeoffs vs. your playing style is just a bad idea for GOTM; we will have players thinking "Well GOTM#4 is an archipelago map, and since I don't have much experience with those I better go down a level of difficulty." Or "I love large maps! I'll play a harder game because I always play large or huge ones" This is not the intention of GOTM; in my opinion, varying difficulties will cause players to attempt to min/max their score by selecting difficulty based on their personal experiences in prior games. In other words, we get people focusing MORE on score and LESS on the community aspect of the game (which I feel is the best part) simply because they have a lot more control over their score. Why not just have everyone on the same map, playing the same game, and trying to do their best with what they start out with as chosen by Matrix. Keep it simple! :cool:

I recognize not everyone will agree with me, and that's fine with me. This is not intended as a bashing of the proposition of multiple difficulties, but more as an argument trying to explain why I feel the way I do. Judging from the poll though, I think most people are in agreement with me (not that that means I'm right; democracy is just tyranny of the majority after all). This is the best Civ3 competiton game on the Internet and more people are playing every month (even if submissions aren't going up; a lot of people didn't submit #4 and #5 because they lost). So something must be going right, and I see no reason to change what is a good system and a thriving game. Best of luck to all in the rest of GOTM#6! :king:
 
I don`t think this is a good idea because then it will always be the ones that masters the most difficult level that will win... And people can play on chieftain just to get the finished first award... That`s no good.... :(

-Caldasar
 
I would vote no to having one GOTM that people just choose the difficultty level on and then compete with one another. People competing within their difficultty choice against people who had picked the same would be an option though.
 
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