If the Soviets did not get involved in WW2

[Gelion]

If by some miracle Soviet leader(s) decided not to get involved in the war right after acquiring Western Belorussia and Ukraine, what would be the outcome of WW2? To make it fair imagine that Hitler did not have plans to invade USSR.

 

[Kraznaya]

War of attrition until American enters. Same result. However, the west would have lost way more life, but have much more power after the war.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

I'll leave it to the more knowledgable Historians to debate the details but methinks the War would have lasted a considerable number of years longer than it did.

 

[luiz]

The United States could defeat Germany on its own, at a higher cost naturally.
Without the SU and the US, though, a german victory would be certain.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Where do people think the Americans will be attacking Germany from if the Soviets don't enter the war? I know that "Sealion" had been cancelled after the Battle of Britain but surely if Germany hadn't attacked Russia, eventually we'd have crumbled.

Britain could therefore no longer be the staging post for a Normandy style invasion of Europe if that did happen.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Where do people think the Americans will be attacking Germany from if the Soviets don't enter the war? I know that "Sealion" had been cancelled after the Battle of Britain but surely if Germany hadn't attacked Russia, eventually we'd have crumbled.

Britain could therefore no longer be the staging post for a Normandy style invasion of Europe if that did happen.

Casablanca to Tunis to Sicily to Europe. The same as it happened in 42 to 43. The allies were in Italy long before Normandy.

It would cost 1 million men but the US had many millions to spare. Same as the Russians.

Plus the US would use nukes. That is the ultimate tie breaker. Italy or no Italy.

 

[fing0lfin]

If the USSR wasn't in the war the whole course of the war would have changed. Hitler planned the Invasion of Russia much more before it's start. But one is certain- Hitler would have used the recources which he used on the east front, and with the he would smash Britain and Africa. The war with America is very unpredictable. The distance is too big.

 

[Hotpoint]

Without the USSR in the game Germany would have had far more resources available for the war against the Western Allies. Dozens more U-Boats put into action in 1942 and rising numbers thereafter would have likely have forced Great Britain to make terms and would make the North Atlantic a very risky place for the USN.

No USSR means Germany is also able to divert even more funds to its already advanced Jet and Rocket programmes. Large numbers of Jet Bombers carrying the new Anti-Ship-Missiles (which were used in combat so this is not just Sci-Fi) would be another major threat to the ability of the United States to power project to German controlled territory.

The United States would still have likely got the Atomic Bomb well before Germany but delivery to target would have been tricky (B-29's would not have fared well against Jet Fighters and the new Surface-to-Air Missiles) and Germany would definitely have got ICBM's before the US.

 

[Reno]

Germany would concentrate on fighting UK together with Italy in North-Africa. With more German resources commenced to the sea war at the Meditterranian and the Atlantic. With these extra resources Rommel might have been able to penetrate the Allied lines at El Alamein and use the fuel captured there to capture Cairo. After that it's the fighting for the Suez Canal and the Middle East. Without the attack of the Axis powers to the Soviet Union, it would have been a whole lot different story for the entire war, even with the americans involved. Since that way Germany would not have too many fronts to concentrate on, and more resources to spend on each.

 

[Broccoli Man]

Germany would have won. America couldn't have invaded. Britain would have crumbled. Africa wouldn't be feasible unless they plan on sending troops from America to Africa to invade. The shear amount of troops Germany would have had guarding Europe would make an invasion allot more difficult.

 

[AdrianE]

Gelion - the decision wasn't Russia's to make. If Nazi Germany had decided not to invade Russia, things would be different for sure. The Nazi's would have not lost millions of soldiers but they also wouldn't have met the T34 and so they would have never built the panther or tiger tank.

 

[fing0lfin]

All these is just to hypotetical...May be if the Germans didn't started a war in the east, they could have spend more resources and money on science. May be finishing V2 and discovering the attomic bomb before america....

 

[Gelion]

Gelion - the decision wasn't Russia's to make. If Nazi Germany had decided not to invade Russia, things would be different for sure. The Nazi's would have not lost millions of soldiers but they also wouldn't have met the T34 and so they would have never built the panther or tiger tank.

I realise that hence my last sentance in the first post

 

[silver 2039]

Germany would likley have won and proably built the atom bomb long before America due to all the resources and manpower they did'nt need to fight Russia. They only had to deal with Britian and once Britian collasped there would be little the US could do.

 

[Zany]

The Soviets didn't do too much damage, they just took up a lot of German resources. The death rate on the eastern front was 1 German to 10 Soviets. Quite a horrific scene on the eastern front, it was a trading of atrocities.

I think there would be heavier Allied casualties, but when you just look at the numbers, the Allies would have won. The US mobilized 11 million troops IIRC, and only 235,000 died. The UK mobilized around 4.5 million troops and lost around 280,000. The Germans, of course counting the eastern front, lost almost 3 million troops of the 10 or so million mobilized. In a war of pure attrition, which WWII probably would have been, the Allies would still have won.

The Germans would probably have had just as many resources, as they only would have been focused elsewhere. Vichy France would probably have just been outright annexed, Switzerland might have been invaded, and at least some token effort to land in Great Britain would have taken place.

 

[blackheart]

Europe would have been a nuclear wasteland.

 

[El_Tigre]

Germany failed to conquer England between June 1940 and June 1941, without facing another adversary. I don't know why the Wehrmacht should have been able to defeat England in 1942 or 1943. There was a reason Hitler decided to abandon the invasion of Britain after the summer of 1940: the British military could increase its strength at a faster pace than the German Wehrmacht, because the latter was already fully mobilized, while the British were still picking up pace. If Germany had tried to conquer England a second time instead of the Soviet Union in 1941, I think the situation would have been worse for Germany, and the defeat more resounding.

 

[Xen]

Germany would likley have won and proably built the atom bomb long before America due to all the resources and manpower they did'nt need to fight Russia.QUOTE]

false- Hitler didnt much liek the idea of an atomic bomb, and regardless, didnt have all the resources needed to build one to begin with.

 

[Gelion]

The Soviets didn't do too much damage, they just took up a lot of German resources. The death rate on the eastern front was 1 German to 10 Soviets. Quite a horrific scene on the eastern front, it was a trading of atrocities.

My good friend if that were true Soviet looses would have added up to 50 million men. With total mobilization capasity of about 34 million in USSR this is hardly possible...... I'm guessing your latest historical source was "Enemy at the Gates"?

 

[~Corsair#01~]

What I take as near-certain:
-Britain had kept the Germans at bay and after the Battle of Britain could continue to do so indefinitely.
-Japan and the US would go to war due to conflicting interests, regardless of the European situation.

Cloudier:
-The US would join the fight in Europe soon after fighting against Japan begins. (Would Hitler make the declaration, though?)
-Germany would gradually lose the war in the air to the allies.
-With air superiority, an allied landing *somewhere* in Europe would be successful and ultimately lead to German defeat. However, since Germany can focus all it's resources, the war drags on into a devastating and extremely costly conflict.

Results: USSR gains power. All of Western (and a good chunk of Eastern) Europe reduced to oblivion. US gains power, but not as much as in reality. No marshall plan. Western Europe impoverished, US exhausted. China becomes communist due to Soviet oppurtunism.

Perhaps European conquest for the Soviets in the long term?