If there are only 11 civs left: a case for post-R&F DLC

[The Kingmaker]

I'd be pleased if that's where they cap out, future installments included. 50 is enough for every staple civ plus a rotating roster of guest civs.

Yeah, I don't think much more than that would be sustainable unless they did a Civ MMO or something (perish the thought).

 

[clapyourhands]

Yeah, I don't think much more than that would be sustainable unless they did a Civ MMO or something (perish the thought).

We joke about it a lot, but when it comes to additional, quality civs, modders have truly been able to accomplish some exceptional work. Once the "final" roster comes out I'm sure the last few dark-horse fan favorites could be modded in one way or another.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think 50 civs is that sweet spot.

It sounds good. I don't know if I could necessarily put down an exact number though of where I would want to stop. But maybe that's just me. It would probably end up depending on who would be in the rotation of civs I guess.

 

[Greywulf]

I think 50 civs is that sweet spot.

I think I agree with that. You wouldn't happen to have 50 in mind, including civs that are in the game, for a complete list? And would that exclude multiple leaders for a single civ?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I can try to make 50: (I don't see why any of these shouldn't be included in this and future games)
1. America
2. Egypt
3. Rome
4. Greece
5. China
6. England
7. France
8. Germany
9. Russia
10. Babylon
11. Japan
12. India
13. Persia
14. Aztec
15. Arabia
16. Mongolia
17. Spain
18. Mali (should be staple of West Africa)
19. Ottomans
20. Inca
21. Maya
22. Korea
23. Khmer (should be staple of SE Asian)
24. Dutch
25. Portugal
26. Ethiopia (should be staple of East Africa)
27. Carthage
28. Byzantines (Not Alternate Rome)
29. Sumer (Cradle of Civilization)
30. Austria (More than just Germany 2.0)
31. Brazil (Seems to be the go to Post-Colonial SA power, and I understand)
32. Assyria (some might disagree but formed very large empire encompassing almost all Ancient-Near East)
33. Poland (Seems to be a new Staple/Maybe Sweden instead?)
34. Zulu (Have to live with it)
35. Italy (I'd like for it to be one cohesive Civ, but if not rotate the city-states in the future: Florence, Genoa, Venice, Milan)

Here's where it gets tricky:
36. Celtic nations: Ireland, Scotland, Gauls
37. Ancient Middle East: Hittites, Phoenicia, Israel?
38. Viking: Norway, Denmark, Iceland?
39. Other South American Natives: Mapuche, Muisca, Guarani
40. West Coast of Africa: Benin, Ashanti,
41. Southern/Central Africa: Swahili, Kongo, Zimbabwe, Maputa
42. South American post colonial nations: Gran Colombia, Argentina
43. Other post colonial nations possibly: Australia, Canada, South Africa (wouldn't have to take other slots)
44. Western NA tribe: Apache, Sioux, Navajo
45: Eastern NA tribe: Iroquois, Shawnee, Cherokee
46. SE Asia rotation: Siam, Indonesia, Vietnam, Phillipines (ideally choose more than one)
47. Central Asian Steppe: Scythia, Huns (maybe not), Parthians, Timurids?
48.Other Europe: Georgia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania (no vampire emoji?), Sweden, Macedon? (If Greece doesn't get Alexander, can be more than one in rotation due to many options)*
49. North Africa, Moors, Morocco, Nubia
50. Polynesia: Maori, Samoa, Tonga
Edited version.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I think I agree with that. You wouldn't happen to have 50 in mind, including civs that are in the game, for a complete list? And would that exclude multiple leaders for a single civ?

A list of 50? I think I could manage that. For the sake of argument, I'll assume that the recent R&F leaks are true. And no, I wouldn't include multiple leaders in that.

Vanilla
1. Americans
2. Arabs
3. Brazilians
4. Chinese
5. Egyptians
6. English
7. French
8. Germans
9. Greeks
10. Indians
11. Japanese
12. Norwegians
13. Kongolese
14. Romans
15. Russians
16. Scythians
17. Spanish
18. Sumerians

DLC (Round 1 )
19. Aztecs
20. Polish
21. Australians
22. Persians
23. Macedonians
24. Nubians
25. Khmer
26. Indonesians

Rise and Fall
27. Cree
28. Dutch
29. Georgians
30. Koreans
31. Mapuche?
32. Mongols
33. Scottish?
34. Zulu?

DLC (Round 2 )
35. Inca
36. Maya
37. Babylonians
38. Assyrians
39. Italians
40. Ottoman Turks
41. Byzantines
42. Malians

XP2
43. Ethiopians
44. Celts (Gauls)
45. Portuguese
46. Iroquois/Cherokee (Eastern NA)
47. Polynesians/Maori
48. Moroccans
49. Vietnamese
50. Apache/Navajo (Western NA)

Of course, I don't think it'll play out like this. In fact, my last few were really murky. Plus this still leaves out a few former civs (Siam, Austria, Sweden, Hittites, etc.) and several popular potential civs (Ashanti, Hungary, Palmyra, etc.).

No idea if they'd be open to post-XP2 content this time around.

 

[Greywulf]

I can try to make 50: (I don't see why any of these shouldn't be included in the future)

I like your list and agree with most of what you said, however my list of 50 would probably look more like this (in similar order to your list)...

1. America
2. Egypt
3. Rome
4. Greece
5. China
6. England
7. France
8. Germany
9. Russia
10. Babylon
11. Japan
12. India
13. Persia
14. Aztec
15. Arabia
16. Mongolia
17. Spain
18. Mali
19. Ottomans or Byzantium
20. Inca
21. Maya
22. Korea
23. Khmer or Siam
24. Chola/Tamil
25. Portugal
26. Ethiopia
27. Carthage or Phoenicia
28. Tibet
29. Sumer
30. Austria-Hungary
31. Brazil
32. Assyria
33. Poland
34. Zulu or Great Zimbabwe
35. Venice
36. Celts
37. Israel
38. Norway
39. Mapuche
40. Ashanti or Kilwa
41. Kongo
42. Tlingit/Haida
43. Inuit
44. Cree
45: Iroquois
46. Indonesia
47. Macedon or Bulgaria
48. Georgia or Armenia
49. Nubia
50. Polynesia

(We really should organize by continental regions...helps me think better)

We might not need 50, come to think of it. It does feel nice and inclusive, however I think we can be more ideal about it and cut back a little, maybe having 45. 40 is a decent number in its own right, but perhaps we will still feel like something is missing.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Well if I'd known we were going for ideal lists, I'd definitely have arranged things a little differently. As it is, I was making do from the current status quo.

40 isn't enough -- that's less than Civ5.

50 is the sweet spot.

 

[dc1215]

I’m bored, so here goes...

1. America
2. England
3. France
4. Germany
5. Russia
6. Rome
7. Greece (no Macedon... would have been fine with Pericles and Alexander)
8. Egypt
9. Arabia
10. India
11. China
12. Japan
13. Mongols
14. Ottomans
15. Babylon
16. Aztecs
17. Iroqouis
18. Brazil
19. Mali
20. Persia
———————
21. Byzantines
22. Celts (if we have to de-blob them I’d prefer a Gaulish iteration)
23. Spain
24. Mayans
25. Incans
26. Portugal
27. Netherlands
28. Carthage
29. Norse
———————
30. Poland
31. Assyria
32. Korea
33. Austria
34. Sweden
35. Sioux
36. Khmer
37. Indonesia
38. Nubia
39. Ethiopia/Axum
————————
40. Kongo
41. Hittites
42. Apache
43. Cree
44. Sumeria
45. Scythia
46. Italy
47. Georgia/Armenia
48. Siam
49. Goths (blob’em)
50. Polynesia

Honorable mentions:
Israel, Hungary, Lydia, Manchu, Cherokee, Mapuche, Morocco/Moors, Australia, Navajo, Pueblo, Songhai

 

[The Kingmaker]

I think they should've put a bit more psychology into their marketing. I might have done it like this.

Vanilla game with 16-18 civs per usual. Have some really cool base civs to catch people's attention.

1.) Early Access Bonus for Pre-Ordering -- get America (instead of Aztecs). So the biggest fan base must pre-order or not play their own nation for 90 days.
2.) All users get one free DLC credit for the in-game store. The game tells you that you have a free gift and shows you how easy it is to spend it on a DLC of your choice.
3.) Four Day-of-Release DLC available in the store: England, France, Germany, Russia. As stated, you get one for free. You get them all for free if you paid for the deluxe version.
4.) You can earn a second free DLC credit after playing the game for, say 50 or 100 hrs? To drive up the stats and/or keep people playing.
5.) After six months, you can earn a third free DLC credit after you've completed or won say 50 or 100 games. That'll motivate casual gamers to play. There'll be a new objective each year that you can meet to earn one free DLC credit.
6.) Meanwhile, DLC packs are released regularly every 30-60 days to keep things interesting and to keep bringing you back to the game. Deluxe users get the first 3 months free as a part of the package plus a discount for the rest of the season.
5.) XP1 released after 18 months. Wash, rinse, repeat.

It's insidious. And it would work like a dream. You feel like you're getting something for free while getting steadily lured in to buy more content.

 

[Bosque]

I'd very much like to see Celts/Scottish or even the Swiss would fit a similar thematic as a more peaceful expansionist/defensive/commercial civ with a hills starting bias. Extra food/gold to improved hills (food from pastures, gold from mines), Highlander Swordsman replacement- more defense on hills and ignores hill movement penalty, Commercial Hub unique district that builds in half time and adds a bonus to Financier governors. Might be OP, but would like to see something along these lines.

I mentioned something like this in another thread for a possible Swiss civ. Possible details could include some of the following:

Leader - Henri Guisan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Guisan

UU - Swiss Guards - unique unit replacing the pikeman, with extra defensive strength. Can be moved into a city state, where it then becomes a mercenary unit transferred to the city state, and resulting in the granting of one envoy and some gold. (No more than one Swiss Guard allowed in any city state). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guards

UD - Swiss National Redoubt (unique encampment that can only be built on hills and within two hexes of a mountain) providing much stronger ranged defense than normal encampment.. More info on the redoubts at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Redoubt_(Switzerland)

UB - Swiss Bank - Unique bank (or a unique commercial district) that provides extra gold, as well as some tourism.

LUA - Mountain home - Starting bias is for mountains and hills. National parks with at least 1 mountain tile provide double tourism. Possible ability to build a tunnel through mountains?

UA - Neutrality - No ability to declare a war or make an alliance, but extra defense for units in own territory. (This would be a very different sort of civ, akin to Venice's lack of an ability to build a settler in CIV 5).

 

[Greywulf]

(We really should organize by continental regions...helps me think better)

Ok, got around to organizing my idealized list by region...

Europe:
1. England
2. Portugal
3. Spain
4. Celts
5. Russia
6. Norway
7. Poland
8. France
9. Germany
10. Austria-Hungary
11. Venice
12. Rome
13. Greece
14. Macedon or Bulgaria

Africa:
15. Carthage or Phoenicia (Middle East)
16. Egypt
17. Nubia
18. Ethiopia
19. Mali
20. Ashanti or Kilwa
21. Kongo
22. Zulu or Great Zimbabwe

Middle East:
23. Ottomans or Byzantium
24. Georgia or Armenia
25. Israel
26. Arabia
27. Persia
28. Assyria
29. Babylon
30. Sumer
31. India
32. Chola/Tamil (Crossing over to E. Asia)

East Asia:
33. China
34. Tibet
35. Mongolia
36. Korea
37. Japan
38. Khmer or Siam
39. Indonesia

Oceania:
40. Polynesia

The Americas:
41. Inuit
42. Cree
43. Tlingit/Haida
44. America
45: Iroquois
46. Aztec
47. Maya
48. Brazil
49. Inca
50. Mapuche

Well if I'd known we were going for ideal lists, I'd definitely have arranged things a little differently. As it is, I was making do from the current status quo.

40 isn't enough -- that's less than Civ5.
50 is the sweet spot.

It's actually probably better this time to make the list from the current status quo...I might do the same too.

 

[Greywulf]

Status quo list with potential civs to reach 50... (I'm excluding wishlist civs that probably won't make it for political reasons, such as Tibet, Israel, and Armenia.)

Vanilla:
1. Americans
2. Arabs
3. Brazilians
4. Chinese
5. Egyptians
6. English
7. French
8. Germans
9. Greeks
10. Indians
11. Japanese
12. Norwegians
13. Kongolese
14. Romans
15. Russians
16. Scythians
17. Spanish
18. Sumerians

DLC thus far:
19. Aztecs
20. Polish
21. Australians
22. Persians
23. Macedonians
24. Nubians
25. Khmer
26. Indonesians

R&F:
27. Cree
28. Dutch
29. Georgians
30. Koreans
31. Mongols
32. Mapuche?
33. Scottish?
34. Zulu?

Potential future civs:
35. Polynesia
36. Mali
37. Inca
38. Maya
39. Inuit
40. Ethiopia
41. Austria-Hungary
42. Babylon
43. Assyria
44. Ottomans
45. Venice
46. Carthage or Phoenicia
47. Portugal
48. Iroquois or Tlingit
49. Chola/Tamil
50. Switzerland

 

[WillowBrook]

I think they should've put a bit more psychology into their marketing. I might have done it like this.

Vanilla game with 16-18 civs per usual. Have some really cool base civs to catch people's attention.

1.) Early Access Bonus for Pre-Ordering -- get America (instead of Aztecs). So the biggest fan base must pre-order or not play their own nation for 90 days.
2.) All users get one free DLC credit for the in-game store. The game tells you that you have a free gift and shows you how easy it is to spend it on a DLC of your choice.
3.) Four Day-of-Release DLC available in the store: England, France, Germany, Russia. As stated, you get one for free. You get them all for free if you paid for the deluxe version.
4.) You can earn a second free DLC credit after playing the game for, say 50 or 100 hrs? To drive up the stats and/or keep people playing.
5.) After six months, you can earn a third free DLC credit after you've completed or won say 50 or 100 games. That'll motivate casual gamers to play. There'll be a new objective each year that you can meet to earn one free DLC credit.
6.) Meanwhile, DLC packs are released regularly every 30-60 days to keep things interesting and to keep bringing you back to the game. Deluxe users get the first 3 months free as a part of the package plus a discount for the rest of the season.
5.) XP1 released after 18 months. Wash, rinse, repeat.

It's insidious. And it would work like a dream. You feel like you're getting something for free while getting steadily lured in to buy more content.

Savvy marketing. Much better than the way they did vanilla with $20 mark-up for 4 mystery DLC. Even without the pricing snafu in some currencies, some of the DLC got horrible reviews primarily because people thought the content wasn't worth it, not because the content was intrinsically bad.

Although delaying America if you don't pre-order could produce a firestorm of negativity. I'd probably go with another staple like Rome.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Yeah, people like to know what they're buying. I'm sure some people might not have gone Deluxe if they knew Waltzing Matilda was coming.

They should have an in-game DLC store with credits you can put towards the various content packs. And there should always be new content.

1 credit could equal $2.50 or something.

Map packs, terrain scripts, wonders, graphics, music, etc.: 1 credit

Civ/Scenario pack: 2 credits

Double Civ/Scenario pack: 3 credits - special price! (We could have asked for four!)

And so on. CK2 made every little thing DLC, graphics/unit packs, coats of arms, new music, everything.

 

[The Kingmaker]

They could easily do something like a two leader pack with a couple of new natural wonders. No new civs, no new functionality.

Really it would just be additional graphics to add to the game, plus recordings for leader voice and wonder quotes.

Shocked that they haven't released more second leaders.

In the 21st century, content is king.

 

[Greywulf]

I mentioned something like this in another thread for a possible Swiss civ.

[...]

UA - Neutrality - No ability to declare a war or make an alliance, but extra defense for units in own territory. (This would be a very different sort of civ, akin to Venice's lack of an ability to build a settler in CIV 5).

Actually, I am liking this ability for the Swiss as a civ, but mainly because it makes it stand out as a much more unique civ, and something completely new to the game. Really helps them to stand out from the crowd, so to speak. I certainly would prefer this ability for the Swiss rather than some other civ, as the Swiss seem like one of the most ideal candidates for such an ability, considering their stance in both WW1 and WW2...quite impressive I have to say. It does rule out domination victory for them, but there's still plenty of ways for them to win, and having a greater defence against invasion is quite the plus. I'd support this idea.
I also like your idea of Swiss banking. It can be a neutral, yet wealthy civ. I think a lot of players would find them quite interesting.

With that in mind, I think I'll include them in my status quo plus list...

Potential future civs:
35. Polynesia
36. Mali
37. Inca
38. Maya
39. Inuit
40. Ethiopia
41. Austria-Hungary
42. Babylon
43. Assyria
44. Ottomans
45. Venice
46. Carthage or Phoenicia
47. Portugal
48. Iroquois or Tlingit
49. Chola/Tamil
50. Switzerland

(I'll edit the other one too...)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Potential future civs:
35. Polynesia
36. Mali
37. Inca
38. Maya
39. Inuit
40. Ethiopia
41. Austria-Hungary
42. Babylon
43. Assyria
44. Ottomans
45. Venice
46. Carthage or Phoenicia
47. Portugal
48. Iroquois or Tlingit
49. Chola/Tamil
50. Switzerland

Interesting that you didn't put a staple, Byzantines, in there. I saw earlier that it would either be between them or the Ottomans. Would you put it as an alternate leader for Rome?

 

[Kothre]

If I had to pick three Civs, I really want them to be

1. The Ottomans. I'm getting increasingly impatient with them not being in the game yet. They're my number 1 pick.
2. Austria-Hungary (as one entity)
3. Either Italy or Israel

 

[Greywulf]

Interesting that you didn't put a staple, Byzantines, in there. I saw earlier that it would either be between them or the Ottomans. Would you put it as an alternate leader for Rome?

If I had to choose between the Ottoman Empire or the Byzantines, I'd choose the Ottomans. I do like the idea of having the Byzantines represented by a secondary leader for Rome, much like Sparta and Athens, two completely different Greek cultures, are represented by separate leaders. It would help to make the secondary leader more distinctly unique from the first leader too, which makes it more interesting to play as.