Immortal Minimalism, Chapter I - Hatshepsut

Finished the walkthrough only to find there would be no end. :( Good stuff regardless.

Why did you fort the calendar resources instead of a plantation? Was it to keep in line with the minimalism approach? Depriving your civ of the commerce?

Also, was the strategy to sell a :)resource you only had one of was to get gold per turn as long as you weren't at the :) cap? ie if there are no happyness problems why hold on to a happyness resource you don't need? If so, that's a good strategy although I've never had to do that since I'm always trying to grow as big as I can.
 
Finished the walkthrough only to find there would be no end. :( Good stuff regardless.
Thanks! :)
And I'm sorry about that being disappointing for you.

Uhm... walkthrough sounds a bit too academical to me: I mean this game was full of mistakes!
Example: don't work a farm and starve -3 when I instead could not work the horses to starve -1.
This when I was building wealth in Heliopolis and running an extra scientist to maximize :gp:points.
Not working the horses I could run the extra scientist few more turns and have that GS likely 1 turn earlier (losing like 10-12 gold in total).

If you wonder about a possible ending, in IU game #55 in my signature I played the same game. And in game #54 and #56 I played (a cultural victory) with 4 and 3 cities (#54 won, #56 lost).

Uhm... past 4Am here, anyways, luckily I can wake up later tomorrow ;)

If you wonder about my general plan here was: keep on generating/settling GSs, beeline biology>>computer, build Internet, beeline Fusion switching to state property as soon as Apollo program was available.
NW: IronWorks (if coal?) in Heliopolis or Elephantine with a GE; National Park in Memphis.
Other buildings: Laboratories, Factories, Hydro (Coal Plant if coal available in Heliopolis). Aqueduct in Heliopolis.
If :mad: from Defy! issues: creative/spiritual cheap Theaters and Temples.

But in the real game I would likely change it consequentially from the new generated situations. The beauty of this game IMO it is that it cannot be played mechanically!
You can emphasize an aspect with your strategy, but you still have to use your head and adapt each time!

So, if you wish to, take my save and finish the game: this will be a walktrough as good as mine! :)

Why did you fort the calendar resources instead of a plantation? Was it to keep in line with the minimalism approach? Depriving your civ of the commerce?
(screen shot attached)

Grass+Silk+Forest: 2:food:, 1:hammers:, 1:commerce:
Grass+Silk+Plantation: 2:food:, 4:commerce:, -1:health: in the city

As I personally see it I got 1:hammers: and 1:health: giving up on 3:commerce:

This in a city with lots of food (health is important) but lacking hammers.

This extra hammer helped building the university, and remember this was the last university to be ready for Oxford.

The city have only 6 land tile:
- 1 grass iron mine: 4 hammers
- 3 grass forest (including silk): 3 hammers
- 1 grass hill forest: 2 hammers

Total 10 hammers (with city tile) and 4 total forests (and no more empty space for others): chop one would mean lose 1 :health: (and anyways, if I had 5 forest I would rather chop a mine on the hill).

And no other land tiles means that I cannot gain hammers tiles without the Moai Statues.

With +3:commerce:: 3 +25% or +50% = 3.75 or 4.50 science/turn (at 100% slider)

But once the forge is ready also :hammers: get multiplied, so, with an engineer:

fort: 10+2+25% = 15 hammers
while...
plantation: 9+2+25% = 13 hammers

So I'm giving up 4.50:science: for 2:hammers: and 1 :health:.

If I made the math correctly, of course! ;)

And remember the problem here will be production while building the SS components :)

Also, was the strategy to sell a :)resource you only had one of was to get gold per turn as long as you weren't at the :) cap? ie if there are no happyness problems why hold on to a happyness resource you don't need? If so, that's a good strategy although I've never had to do that since I'm always trying to grow as big as I can.
Yes, basically this! :)
With a small empire, and a very low global maintenance, 5-12 gold from trade might be various +10% to science in the slider. In the last save I'm running 100% science and making +17(positive) gold IIRC.

And the diplomatic bonus with Capac also.

By the way: I don't just consider :) and :health: caps.
IMO there is a also 3+:food: tiles / max specialists cap, and a representation cities cap.

But this is another silliness, for another time. :)
 
@all

Quick silly request to any warmonger out there willing to spend a bit of time to take my last save (few posts above), transform my science machine into a war machine, play the end-game and post a quick report of it.

I guess the tech lead should be enough, a lot of forests are there to chop units, the spiritual trait and pyramids might be handy in civic switching, the creative trait (+2:culture: and libraries/theaters half hammers) might maybe be also a bit useful in cementing culture in conquered cities.

I'm curious about seeing from here a different end-game from the one I planned.

Thanks to anybody would attempt that. :)

EDIT:

Here the link to the save mentioned above


here the initial save

here the .zip file with all the intermediate saves
 
I think in regards to the silk:

Irrigate-Workshop on the two flatlands squares. That gives More hammers and once you hit biology hits parity in Health/Food (And you didn't need the extra health yet.)

In general, you have +2 unused health in the city, and 4 forests. Might as well cut the forests for better improvements (Maybe even while building the university to build it faster).
 
Tried, failed. But I normally play emperor/epic with the better ai mod, so this was a low probability of success anyway.

Spoiler :

My plan: turn all those trees into lumbermills or chops, hammer/draft a cannon/rifle army ASAP to tackle Mansa before he getsout of control.

Tech path (plan): Rep parts, steel, rifling, turn all scientists into hammer-workers.

Turn 179 (load turn): queue up four more workers, sell Asoka lib to keep tech at 100% even though I stop building wealth, built temples to raise happy cap where necessary.

This economy is almost opposite to how I normally play. There are no cottages and (almost) 0 :commerce:, everything is farms and trees. Changing the slider from 100% to 90% only changes gold by 6ish per turn! Waaa?!?

But I can't argue with the results; we have a tech lead on Mansa at immortal with 6 cities to mansas 10+.

Turn 190: Steel in, sold rep parts to Asoka for 900 more gold.

civ4screenshot0005t.jpg


Start building barracks then cannon everywhere, slowly for now because I haven't fired scientists.

Turn 195(ish): I notice Mansa is 4 turns from Physics, so I bulb 1 scientist towards it and spend 3 turns of research beating him to it and denying him the great scientist. Bad decision?

Turn 198: Rifling in, I cancel all deals where I'm selling luxuries for gold so I can raise happy cap and grow.

civ4screenshot0007.jpg


Switched all cities to emphasize :hammers:.

Switched civics to Police State, Nationalism, Caste, Merc, and Theocracy (traded Monty Education for Nationalism, newly met Pericles Liberalism for Theocracy + Gold). Spiritual, so no anarchy :cool:.

Slider to 0% science, saving the gold for upgrades/troop costs.

Turn 206: After deciding belatedly to get Globe in Elephantine for drafting, used great engineer to finish globe on turn 206. I also used a great scientist to start a golden age for even more :hammers:.

civ4screenshot0009.jpg


Turn 213: I know my window is short, so I decide to declare on Mansa with this army:

civ4screenshot0010d.jpg


I was pretty happy with putting that together in 23 turns since steel came, and only 15 turns since I fired the scientists. But, again, I'm an epic player usually, and this didn't end up being fast enough :confused:

Power giraffe at declaration:
civ4screenshot0011s.jpg


My scouting told me Mansa had mostly rifles and older in his bases, 1 machine gun meant he just got railroad.

Turn 216: Took Walata with minimal losses ;).

Turns 217-231: Things turn for the worse. I take my stack out of Walata onto the next city, but Mansa railroads his empire quickly and brings about 4 artillery to collateral damage my stack in the open, and then hits with about 5 rifles, killing 5 of my rifles and causing enough damage I have to go heal.

And this process would repeat itself; I'd reinforce/heal, leave Walata, and Mansa would hit me with Arty using railroads, I'd retreat, etc. etc.

Turns 232: I kill enough arty and build enough troops to make it to the walls of Awdaghost. Unfortunately the first infantry are in. I suicide enough cannons to injure the infantry and kill about 10 units with my rifles, but not enough to take the city in 1 turn. Mansa reinforces more infantry before the next turn, kills some of my guys with his arty/infantry, leaving me with this picture on Turn 232:

civ4screenshot0012p.jpg


GG Mansa, GG.

Thoughts on how to do it better:
- The main problem is that Mansa is a monster techer in this game, he did steam power in 3 turns for example. He will get arty around turn 213 and infantry around 230, so the window for rifles/cannons against him is probably too short, meaning we either need to target someone else first or get better tech before hitting Mansa.
- The other problem with Mansa is he has a nice mountain range protecting a bee line the capital. You have to take 4-5 cities first and go a circuitious route to get there.
- The problem with going for Asoka is that we don't share a border, that Asoka is our only reliable ally, and that he and Monty are keeping eachother happily preoccupied.

Plan for next time (if there is a next time):
Tech out to Arty/Railroad/Bio/Infantry. Bio farms, factories, railroaded lumbermills, and drafted rifles upgraded to infantry should allow for decent production. Mansa will probably have Tanks and even bombers by the time we hit, but as long as he doesn't have mech inf we stand a chance.

May need to nuke rest of the world, but if we somehow subdue Mansa I think this is in the bag.

 
@travlake
Thanks :)
Interesting reading! :goodjob:
I'm sorry for the missing cottages :lol:

No problem, like I said it clearly works for you. And, it was actually set up very well to become a :hammers: economy for war prep once the time came.

I tried again, this time teching out to rails/infantry/rifles/bio and building factories before spamming arty/infantry. My attack was ~30 turns later than last time 1.5x as many arty as I had cannons before and 1.5x as many infantry as i had rifles before.

Still failed, though I feel like I was closer. This time Mansa had tanks and Marines, which I could handle but had to take some losses. I had just killed the stack he sent when I declared when he (apparently) bribed Asoka into the war. When Asoka's stack arrived I hadn't rebuilt enough to handle it and lost.

I think a deity player could handle this, but I'm not there yet.
 
A monarch player here, but I thought this would make a fun challenge. Played from last save to Turn 199/1390 AD, write-up and questions below. Would be nice to see Hatty get to Space!

Spoiler :

-adding a seventh city,

-switching to Free Religion and Free market (I ended up with something like an extra 80(!) commerce, 2nd in the world in trade ratio and research at 100% was pushed to ~750, enough to take the free GPs from Physics and Communism),

- ended the Astro monopoly for RP and Nationalism in the Asoka/Mansa bloc, then a few turns later got 900 gold from HC.

-GE rushed the National park in Memphis, already at 3 specs because of the existing preserves. (The 4 workers had matters like building farms to support the new lumbermills. I will admit that I wasn't very careful with improvements but I felt like after biology I might be in a better place to evaluate food.)

I'm not really an immortal player but decided to err to the safe side and stay away from WFYABTA limit in case I can still get a few good trades before the end of the game (I doubt I'm going to make anyone friendly, but at the moment the world is pleased, Pericles showed himself and brought in a ton of resources (Horses brought in copper, crabs and a new source of clams!)


At the moment, We are in Heriditary rule for the next 3 turns (And yet still in 3rd place in GNP, nice). This is where the big choice comes in: State property would save about 13 gold off total expenses (right now it's running at around -33 per turn, but there is ~2000 in the bank) while we'd lose something around 25-30 in commerce, which means we'd be trading something like 50-70 beakers (at 100% through our only multipliers). As I am typing it the answer appears clear (at least until the meat of the Space race), but I'd like some thoughts on how this game is progressing.

Also, any thoughts on where I should get the happy I'm going to need for the empire soon. I'm trading in fur and clams right now, which really seems funny to me but luckily Pericles really wants horses.

Immortalminimalismattempt.jpg


The empire at a glance, Giza is only going to work the wine, the two river tiles, the uranium and then coastal the rest of the way. Also may make a WB to go say hello to Boudica and see if she wants to trade any resources (she's also Monte's worst enemy, but I don't think the 'trade with our worst enemies' can go higher than -4 for him, so that could be yet another market to aggressively sell techs and resources to)

Also, save is attatched to see which tiles I'm working and how bad my worker management is (to be fair, I only started with 4)

Edit: Spies are probably going to be important in the next round, Mansa jacked up his espionage to +58 against me after I beat him to Communism, right now I'm spreading it around hoping that it'll bring down his slider, but either way I figured it would be wise to give Thebes the espionage agency from the free GP. Probably going to convert Memphis as well (brain fart that I don't think is going to be fatal, but it may well be if Mansa starts stealing techs).

For Comparison to Yatta's 1320-turn 192 save, at 1390-turn 199 (had to wait for revolution change timer to end to get back to Representation) Beakers = 811 without building research, Foreign trade = 81 commerce, Distance maintenance = 10 gold (why I'm not too excited about State property)



Anyone's thoughts on the save above would be great

Yatta, I hope you do continue this, if only because now I'm challenging you to the Space Race. This is a really interesting map/approach, and you basic set-up is actually pretty fun to work with, even if the turns are taking forever to complete.
 

Attachments

Yatta, I hope you do continue this
Alright, for a little bit at least...
(I played a bit this morning, I still have to start my IU game #57)

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Session 16, turn 192, 1320AD.
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)


Deal with Asoka to make some cash: theology + world map + 620 gold for economics.



Technologies screen: Egypt still have the monopoly on liberalism, astronomy and scientific method



Alexandria, size 10, starving to finish the forge



Tenth great person, seventh great scientists resident in Thebes



Thebes science output is over 400 science/turn now.



Overview of Egypt: Mansa is 1 turn from liberalism. The workers build preserves.



Mansa asks for map trading: I refuse.



Capac asks for liberalism as tribute: ok, you can have that.



Overview of Egypt: Mansa is 3 turns from scientific method. The workers build preserves.



Alexandria stops starving while building the forge.



Memphis, size 9, is starving running 7 scientists to increase gp points and discover physics in 2 turns.



Glance: Asoka friendly, Montezuma pleased, Capac cautious +3, Mansa cautious -4.
My buddies Asoka and Montezuma still in war with each other.



Next great people still be planned in Memphis.



Refused divine right from Asoka for liberalism and 115 gold.



Discovered physics: eight great scientist settled in Thebes.
Mansa still 3 turns from scientific method.



Technologies screen: Egypt has the monopoly on astronomy, scientific method and physics.



Thebes, size 11, running 7 scientists and with 8 great scientists settled generates 438.75 science/turn toward biology.



Sorry Asoka, Egypt won't betray Montezuma.



Memphis, size 9, stop starving running 5 scientists again. Next great person still planned here.



A bit of micro in Alexandria to finish the forge in exactly 1 turn.



A deal with Montezuma to make some cash: 290 gold in for banking.



A deal with Asoka to make some cash: 410 gold and world map in for liberalism.



Overview of Egypt: Mansa is 2 turns from scientific method.
The workers build a last preserve on the east to increase chances to grow a forest.



Mansa steps back on previous deal wheat and 8 gold for ivory.



Pericles shows up.



And he doesn't really like Egypt: cautious at -1.



Deals reworked: from Mansa 14 gold for ivory.



From Asoka clams and 10 gold for iron.



From Mansa Wheat for Silk



Resources screen: 41 gold/turn for Egypt, not exceptional, but not bad.



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30 images per post limit reached, the session continues in the post below...
 
session 16, continuing...


Alexandria finishes the forge. Next an observatory.
The city at size 10 runs 5 scientists and 1 engineer.



Cities outputs screen: all cities healthy and happy.
Next great person in 8 turn in Memphis, as planned.



Overview of Egypt: Mansa discovered scientific method and is 5 turns from communism.
The workers back in the west to finish building preserves around Memphis.



Montezuma asks for chemistry as tribute: ok, you can have that.



Pericles asks for open borders: ok, deal.



Pericles proposes divine right for gunpowder and 205 gold: no my friend, Egypt won't accept that.



Mansa offers nationalism and 5 gold for astronomy: another no from Egypt.



Technologies screen: Mansa Musa discovered communism; Capac still unlocks replaceable parts.
Egypt discovered biology and has the monopoly on astronomy, biology and physics.
Next research: replaceable parts(?)



Glance: Pericles in annoyed at -6 now. Asoka (free religion) and Montezuma (Hindu) are both pleased.
Mansa Musa and Capac still cautious.



The workers are building the lasts preserves.
Memphis, size 9, grows running 5 scientists*, and will output the next great person in two turns.
The city could buy the National Park soon with a quick civic switch.
*(this could be 4 scientists and 1 engineer)



Or the great engineer from Thebes could hurry build the National Park as well.
In this case the IronWorks have to be built by hammers, unless a new great engineer will born soon.



Thebes, size 11, grows running 7 scientists, and will output the second next great person.



Heliopolis, size 9, grows running 5 scientists.



Elephantine, size 9, grows running 5 scientists.



Alexandria, size 10, stagnant running 6 scientists and 1 engineer.
The observatory will be completed in 10 turns.



Cities outputs screen: all growing cities healthy and happy with +1 in population.
The next great person after Memphis and Thebes might born in Elephantine or Alexandria(?).



Overview of Egypt: time to make some decisions on what's next.



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End session. Save attached.

Does anyone know how likely it is Pericles attacks at -6 annoyed?
How was the WHEEOOHRN trick works?
 
it seems to me your empire bpt peaked and 700 bpt doesn't look stellar for reaching SS stuff in reasonable time.

as for the WHEOORN. From what I remember, once AI goes in, he can't choose other target, he can't choose target with whom he has forced peace.

So if he was WHEOORN before you met him, then you should be safe. Otherwise... the probability could be high especially when you're his worst enemy.
 
it seems to me your empire bpt peaked and 700 bpt doesn't look stellar for reaching SS stuff in reasonable time.
Uhm... yep, to research space ship components technologies you need a stellar research rate. ;)
- Biology will allow few more scientists in like every city
- Few more great scientists will be settled in Thebes
- The National Park will allow 8-10 extra scientists in Memphis
- The observatory in Alexandria is another +25% in research
- Laboratory is another +25% in research in all cities later
- Free religion in the end game might be another +10% in research
So it should be expected to generate about 1200-1500 :science:/turn already researching Computers!

The issue about the National Park is between:
- hurry it spending the GE and hoping for a next one for the IronWorks later;
- hurry it spending the gold switching from representation to universal suffrage for 5 turns, saving the GE for the IronWorks later but losing almost 50% of the :science: output for 5 turns (about 300bpt x 5 = 1500 :science: in total if my math is correct). Plus over 1500 :gold:, of course.
So, it is keeping a GE ready to build the IronWorks worth 1500:science: + 1500:gold: or not?
Atm I'm on the NO idea, but don't know yet.

as for the WHEOORN.
Thanks! :)
But thinking twice, Pericles is light years away from astronomy. ;)
And he still have to research gunpowder. So, not really scary after all. And, by the way, you might also have fun sending Montezuma after him maybe, after the Aztec is done with messing up in Asoka's lands.

Ah, ah, I'm so parenthetically ironic this morning. :lol: ;)
 
My one tip is Free Market, It'll add about 3 commerce to every trade route you have (although you might need to buy a map to get trade routes from the Inca). I think it's 3 trade routes at this point, but that's still 54 commerce running through science multipliers. I know that in the capital for sure it's a better deal than the free scientist.

Now, for the Space Race Shadow Challenge and the launch date to beat (with one extra city, because I usually play on Large :D)

Spaceship launched: 1920 AD Alpha Centuri reached: 1930 AD Save Used: Hatshepsut-AD 1190

Spoiler :
Sadly, this took two tries, both ending with the same two challengers for victory: Mansa going Cultural and little Hatty going for Space. Sadly, this won't be as detailed as Yatta's game because after my first turnset I just played straight to the victory.

Highlights:

-Switching and staying in Free Market until the Apollo Program was finished, then finishing in State Property to avoid Mansa's Sushi spam and pick up the extra hammers (which was very useful in Thebes, which was producing about 350 hammers for spaceship parts to end the game)
-Making Thebes into a hybrid spy and scientist city for a short time, which ended up being crucial to delay Mansa's victory
-Giza (The phantom 7th city) became a useful piece of the empire, mostly idling at 9 pop but at a few points bringing in over 100 beakers a turn. Might've put me over the top in this game
-Major bee-line for the internet, left the original archers until the space ship was launched and built only one machine gun (because in my first game Barbarians took Elephantine with two maces dropped off by galley while I wasn't paying attention :lol::lol::lol:)
-Paid other Civs to get into the right civics. Gave Pericles economics for Free Religion and tried to make sure ever tech trade (which were usually for cash) also got a beneficial civic (Free markets and Free Religion I pushed on the world in a way that would make America proud). This definitely gave me a few more beakers and kept Pericles from attacking me or getting too angry at anyone on the continent.


First game storyline: bee-lined to Computers, alternating between building research and health and happiness but the real problem was that I messed up my Space Race research and didn't get Fusion early enough, also didn't build enough spies to delay Mansa's Cultural victory with city revolts. Aformentioned laziness that cost me Elephantine for a few turns also showed in my worker and city micro. UN killed the

Diplomatically, I went free religion and free market, traded techs like a madman for cash (Think my last tech trade in this game was for democracy, couldn't get anyone to friendly though so Pericles held onto Medicine and cost me several turns of research), and tried to get anyone I could into wars with Mansa. Unfortunately, Mansa ended up capping Montezuma, Boudica and Asoka, but sadly this didn't net any spaceship techs from the internet. He was also able to grab every wonder along the Electricity line. That gave him a Cultural Victory in 1914.

Second Game storyline: Was much more careful in keeping Mansa from capitulating half the continent, although still had to make the continent dogpile him once (which seemed to keep everyone busy). Asoka later ruined a perfectly good dogpile with a classic double-cross on Montezuma, which after the dust cleared (and I had pulled down Computers) Monte was Asoka's vassal and Boudica was Mansa's vassal. The wars slowed down Mansa this time and Huayna ended up with nearly all the cultural wonders off the electricity-radio-mass media line.

Not to be undeterred, he seemed to put more effort into culture through the slider this time, because by the time I launched my ship (in the save attached), I had already begun flooding Mansa's last legendary city (Gao) with spies and sending the city into revolt every turn that I could afford it. One scotland yard from communism and one settled Great Spy from GP pollution gave me basically the exact amount I needed, as you'll see from the screen shots below.

MinimalismShadowWin.jpg

Yes I'm building Mech infantry, mostly because the spy games meant I had to be Mansa's next target (I was going to save the capital and pretend it was an OCC win)

Demographics.jpg

I don't think I've ever had such crummy numbers and pull out a win (Please note, I just started playing on Monarch a few weeks ago).

victoryconditions.jpg

And that's how close it was at the end.

Always gotta love a game where you use a tactic learned from a Madscientist RPC (endless city revolt to delay cultural wins) to pull out a win.

And just a funny picture to show how hard it is just to get 1 +:)

funny.jpg

The jerk was the only one in Emancipation.


Save is from my launch, the game was still in doubt at that point because I need 2 or 3 more city revolts in Gao and I had spent all my cash and espionage points. Also only had 3 turns of peace left with Mansa and no chance to beg anymore


Really found it to be a fun challenge, was able to win the game above my level because of the excellent starting science base. So Kudos to Yatta for getting me 1/2 an immortal win :goodjob:.
 

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@yatta77

As Michael Corleone says - "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in"

:)
Yeah... I have a very weak saving throw against reverse psychology. :lol: <- self-irony here

I'll maybe just skip IU for once and finish this game instead, since before even beginning that other game I already know too much about the map from reading obsolete report and watching part1 (for now) of AbsoluteZero game video.

I played another session (#17) after work this afternoon, and selected 60 screen shots (2 posts) from it.
I decided to use the GE to hurry the National Park and started building the IronWorks with hammers. Mansa, as always, is teaching insanely, but diplomatically I'm doing pretty well I guess. The science output is already close to 1000:science:/turn.
I played 17 turns, up to turn 209, 1490AD, the save is attached. I'll post about it as soon as I get some time to write the report and upload the images (maybe later tonight).

Time to put Hatshepsut business aside now, and read about the Attila saga war campaigns. :D
 
Really found it to be a fun challenge, was able to win the game above my level because of the excellent starting science base. So Kudos to Yatta for getting me 1/2 an immortal win :goodjob:.
Actually you achieved positive results on what for me is the hardest task of this project: the end game production! :)
I didn't check your save yet, I'm going to finish my attempt first, then I will check yours.

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As promised in the post above, here the report of...


Session 17, turn 209, 1490AD
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)


Elephantine, size 9, growing running 5 scientists, starts a theater, next a Buddshist temple.



Thebes, size 11, growing running 1 engineer and 6 scientists, starts a theater, next Buddhist and Taoist temples.



Heliopolis, size 9, growing running 1 engineer and 5 scientists, dropping the horse tile.
The city starts an aqueduct since a coal plant and the IronWorks are planned here.



The great engineer from Thebes hurries the National Park in Memphis.



Changed research plan: next electricity >> radio (instead of replaceable parts).



Changed Espionage point destination: from Mansa to Asoka.



Memphis, size 9, builds wealth while growing running 12 scientists (7 are from preserves, one more preserve have to be built).



Preserves power: a forest grows one tile north-east from Heliopolis.



Technologies screen: Mansa discovered communism, Capac doesn't unlock replaceable parts.
Egypt still have the monopoly on astronomy, biology and physics.



Overview of Egypt: the ninth great scientist settles Thebes (was born in Memphis).



Thebes, size 11, growing running 1 engineer and 6 scientists, starts a Buddhist temple, next a Taoist one.
The next great person will born in Thebes in 5 turns.



The following great person will born in Alexandria, Memphis, or Thebes again?
Let's hope for Alexandria, but it will be unlikely.



Technologies screen: Asoka discovered astronomy, ending of a very long Egyptian monopoly.
Egypt still have the monopoly on biology and physics.
Mansa is willing to trade communism and nationalism, but no good deal was found.



Glance: Asoka and Montezuma at pleased, Capac and Mansa at cautious, Pericles at annoyed.



Technologies screen: Mansa discovered biology, ending another Egyptian monopoly.
Asoka discovered scientific method, Montezuma unlocks nationalism, Mansa unlocks military science.
Capac still need chemistry and astronomy but doesn't unlock replaceable parts yet.
Egypt is left with only the monopoly on physics.



Montezuma agrees on nationalism + 100 gold for scientific method. Egypt says "maybe".



Montezuma agrees on nationalism for education + 485 gold. Egypt says "maybe", again.



Montezuma agrees on nationalism for astronomy + 170 gold. Egypt says ok.
Was this the wisest choice?



Memphis, size 9, builds wealth while growing fast running 11 scientists (8 from preserves).
A couple of riverside preserved forests are being worked from now to grow in 2 turns.



Elephantine, size 9, growing running 5 scientists, finished the theater and started the Buddhist temple.



First commercial deal with Pericles: 8 gold for Egyptian ivory.



Alexandria, stagnant at size 10 running 7 scientists and building the observatory, needs 10% of culture to be happy.



Technologies screen: Capac still need chemistry and astronomy but doesn't unlock replaceable parts yet.
Mansa is willing to trade constitution and military science, but not communism anymore.
Montezuma discovered military tradition. Asoka discovered military science.
Egypt is left with only the monopoly on physics, but still in a quite strong position.



Memphis, size 10, builds wealth while growing fast running 12 scientists.



Thebes, size 11, growing running 1 engineer and 6 scientists, finished the Buddshist temple and started the Taoist one.
In two turns the city will be size 12, the second temple will be completed, and a great person will born here.



First technologies trade deal with Pericles: replaceable parts and 20 gold for economics and liberalism.



Glance: Capac in free religion is now pleased at +7. Pleased also Montezuma and Asoka.
Mansa Musa and Pericles are cautious. Asoka and Montezuma war ended some time earlier.



Overview of Egypt: the workers start building the lumbermills in the eastern forests.
Egypt is now just one turn from discovering electricity.



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30 images per post limit reached, the session continues in the post below...
 
session 17, continuing...


Technologies screen: Asoka discovered steel. Mansa misses replaceable parts.
Egypt still have the monopoly on physics, and next electricity.



Overview of Egypt: electricity is discovered, next target is radio.
The 11th great scientist (13th great person) has been born (in Thebes).



Thebes, at size 12, is growing running 8 scientists and has 10 great scientists settled now.
The science output of the capital is over 500 science/turn now.
And the 10 settled residents also add 10 row hammers to the city production.
The Taoists temple is completed, next task is build wealth.



Memphis, size 11, builds wealth while growing fast running 12 scientists (8 from preserves).
A third preserved forest is being worked from now to grow in 3 turns.



Technologies screen: Mansa Musa discovered medicine. Everybody knows the secrets of astronomy.
Egypt still have the monopoly on physics and electricity.



Overview of Egypt: the workers are building the lumbermills on the eastern coast.



Elephantine, size 9, growing running 5 scientists, finished the Buddhist temple and started build wealth.



Glance: Asoka, Mansa, Capac and Montezuma pleased; Pericles is the only one cautious.



Elephantine, size 9, growing running 5 scientists.
The city switched the production from wealth to an aqueduct since a coal plant is planned here.



Heliopolis, size 9, growing running 6 scientists (instead of 1 engineer and 5 scientists), keeping on building the aqueduct.



Technologies screen: Mansa discovered steel and unlocks it.
Egypt still have the monopoly on physics and electricity.



Memphis, size 12, builds wealth while growing fast running 12 scientists (8 from preserves).
Three preserved forests and an ivory camp are being worked from now to grow in 6 turns.



Cities outputs screens: Alexandria still far from the birth of the next great person.



Deal with Capac: 13 gold for cows, freeing up the fur. The slider is back to 100% science.



Resources screen: the trade income is now +55 gold for Egypt. Not too bad.



Overview of Egypt: the workers keep on building the lumbermills on the eastern coast.



Technologies screen: Pericles is willing to trade constitution, but Egypt is not willing to trade biology yet. Egypt still have the monopoly on physics and electricity.



Alexandria finished the last observatory. The city, stagnant at size 10 running 1 engineer and 6 scientists (was running 7 scientists), restarted building the Moai Statues.



A very wished forest grown on the road-ed tile south-east from Heliopolis!
That forest preserve east from Heliopolis already did spread two forests!
There are three unimproved resources within the Egyptian borders: Oil, Uranium and Fish.



Technologies screen: Mansa discovered physics. Capac discovered rifling.
Egypt have the monopoly only on electricity now.



Mansa asks for electricity: no my friend, you can't have that!



Glance: Asoka, Capac and Montezuma pleased; Mansa is cautious now, as Pericles.



Thebes, at size 13, is growing running 9 scientists and has 10 great scientists settled.
The next great person might born in 9 turns here.



Memphis, size 12, builds wealth while growing running 14 scientists (8 from preserves).
The three preserved forests still being worked, the ivory camp is dropped instead.
The city will grow again in 8 turns, the next great person will born here in 7 turns.



Alexandria at size 10 running 7 specialists cannot overtake Memphis gp points.
The next great person might born in 9 turns here.



Pericles discovers and unlocks steel. Here the deal: steel for biology and 155 gold.
Egypt will discover Radio in the next turn.



Heliopolis, size 9, growing to size 10 the next turn still run 6 scientists.
Finished the aqueduct, next task is starting the IronWorks.



Heliopolis, size 10, growing running 1 engineer and 4 scientists.
The city works the cows, the horses and a plain hill mine waiting for the lumbermills.



Technologies screen: Mansa discovered steam power.
Egypt discovered radio and next researches steam power(?).
Only Mansa and Pericles unlocks technologies for trading.
Egypt have the monopoly on electricity and radio.



Overview of Egypt: the workers have to build the last lumbermills near Alexandria and near Heliopolis.
Even if Celtic territory is visible on the (partly traded) map, the diplomatic contact is still missing.
Science output already over 900 science/turn in turn 209, 1490AD.
Waiting for few more specialists growing Thebes and Memphis, and few more settled great scientists in Thebes.



---

End session. Save attached in the post above.
Link here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=292540&d=1307867219
 
seems to me like you neglected Factories+Coal plants too much. well you don't seem to have coal (which is problem) though.

This game is so unnormal to me that tough for me to say any kind of definite assumptions about best tech paths, but if I go for space race I usually go for AL before Laboratories.

to me it's mostly AL, Labs, Ind (alu), Rocketry, beeline Engines, Genetics, ecology, Casings last.

Or you want probably internet first?
 
Or you want probably internet first?
Yeah, definitely! :D

I couldn't keep up in research in the end game without it!
Even more true with this Mansa as a neighbor! :D

Now I understand your previous post about being doubtful on me able to keep up in tech: to me the race now is up to computers, then it is just about getting first to fusion and hope to be on time. :)

The rest of the tech tree will be filled up by AIs: ironically, it is likely better if someone else keeps up and trades with Mansa in tech. If it's me and him, without internet effects, it is kind of impossible I guess playing in the way I chose to play this map (at least for me).

In this game, differently from the IU #55 which I lost in the last turn, the plan is to switch to state property sometimes after finishing with the Internet, to increase the hammers production hoping to finish the SS components few turns earlier. ;)

Edit: btw, Cristo Redentor wonder (+2GE) half price in Thebes it is worth it in this game in your opinion? I guess not but I'm first to radio and I'm thinking about it.
 
Yeah, definitely! :D

I couldn't keep up in research in the end game without it!
Even more true with this Mansa as a neighbor! :D

Now I understand your previous post about being doubtful on me able to keep up in tech: to me the race now is up to computers, then it is just about getting first to fusion and hope to be on time. :)

The rest of the tech tree will be filled up by AIs: ironically, it is likely better if someone else keeps up and trades with Mansa in tech. If it's me and him, without internet effects, it is kind of impossible I guess playing in the way I chose to play this map (at least for me).

In this game, differently from the IU #55 which I lost in the last turn, the plan is to switch to state property sometimes after finishing with the Internet, to increase the hammers production hoping to finish the SS components few turns earlier. ;)

Edit: btw, Cristo Redentor wonder (+2GE) half price in Thebes it is worth it in this game in your opinion? I guess not but I'm first to radio and I'm thinking about it.

I see...

well to me it's still somewhat risky tactic since you will rely on 2 AI's going for space race ideally with the exact techs.
AI's won't trade space ship techs (well to human and not sure if between themself, it's hardcoded i read somewhere).

Since you're spiritual and I think the projects can't be rushed then real abuse of christo redentor is not in place imo.

Rush maybe the Brodway, Hollywood...
 
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