Immortal OCC (De G.)

Okay now.. .so there's another silly bug that prevents you from selecting WB save format depending how you save it... Ahah. Thanks for never fixing that Firaxis...

Anyhow, I edited the WB save.. re-saved under standard save... and re-edited back in the missing barb techs due to another Firaxis bug, and swapped out our barbarian for a quesh...

So here is the official starting save for:

De Gaulle of the Inacs

I imagine that could change the majority of opening scenes quite a bit.... or not.
 

Attachments

(1340 AD)

And the herald chanted :
"Retreat ! Retreat !
Oh ! Get the boys back home !"

Spoiler :
And the men, scattered in the fields, they heared his call,
And the men, dispersed in the Celtic wasteland, they heared his call,
And the men, from the remote sea of the Vikings, they heared his call,
They heared and they headed back home.

And whence they finally came home,
The herald greeted the men with a smile and :
"Time to upgrade, friends !" he said.

Spoiler :
nxUAdih.jpg


Went for Steel after Rifling, now going for Railroads.
Brennus only has a last city and I'm probably taking a peace treaty now, after capturing 5+ workers to rail roads.

I attached all 3 Great Generals and split the xp between stacks of 4-5 Riflemen.
At the moment, got :
17 Riflemen, 8 of whom are promoted to March,
11 Canons,
6 Infantries, upgraded this turn,
2 Frigates and 2 Ships of the Line, to bombard cities ahead of the troops.

Didn't lose much in the war, to accumulate those troops :
2 Trebuchets, 1 Canon, 1 Rifleman, 1 Caravel.

Tech situation :
Spoiler :
kaYKVd5.jpg



Qin and Ragnar have a defensive pact. I may DoW Ragnar regardless, since Qin doesn't have open borders with Wang Kon.
Otherwise, I may attack Pacal, who isn't Friendly anymore since he adopted Free Religion.
Somehow, I underestimated my tech lead or the speed at which some AIs would get Rifling (Qin and Huayna).
 
@ BIC... I would never want to lose out on IronWorks in my capital for OCC. And West Point definitely would be a big no-no.

But... maybe you can pull it off. I just think it's going to fail on Immortal most the time here. Since you can't keep cities you take over, making too much room just means more room for other AIs to expand into.
 
Yes, the main difficulty to a military win is to conquer the land fast enough, so that them AIs can't resettle it.
Hence the focus on a later war and durable units.

There are some reference threads by ScorpionK, demonstrating such approaches on Deity OCC Always War :eek::eek::eek: with fully cooked maps :relief:
Of course, he had more Great Generals and better promoted units (early defence) but the overall game development is similar.
 
That reference threads link does not work. In any case, COOKED maps are VERY easy to win on even Deity... particularly stuff like Highland maps where the AI is forced to come at you from narrow junctions and choke-points... right into your forested/hilled fort(s). Even better when they have to attack across a river to get at you...

I'd like to see more of a legit style OCC-Deity cookbook sometime... so far the OCC Deity write-ups I've seen are mostly for rigged settings.. changing the map-size smaller.. etc. Sure we can try that for starters... but changing the size of maps makes things ridiculously easier.

I may add a few other mixed leaders for this starting map.
Aside from De Gaulle of Mali.... a favorite when me, Snaaty, Auron, and I think Topaz used to do AW Deity was to mix Churchill with Sittingbull. That you had protective archers, which were charismatic, and also had a UB to give them added promotions. LOL.
 
Obsolete, thanks a lot for the detailed critics. I really appreciate it. I will try to improve. Anyway, it was my first try. So, later I will just try to find a better way through many appoachec and experiments.

Spoiler :

2200 BC
OMG. You already are giving me a heart-attack here.... Congrats on moving your settler, but you moved it to a BAD SPOT! If you are going to move, why not take advantage of the production bonus on the hill for your early worker.. etc... And more important, why not take advantage of the major defense bonus for being on hills... ESPECIALLY with Charismatic leaders?

And why are you NOT off stealing a worker? You wasted production, and now effectively have THREE USELESS WARRIORS.... You could have used the free one to go steal a worker... I mean.. you don't even have your marble hooked up yet... should have had two workers ages ago by now (yeah, stealing sometimes isn't do-able, but you didn't even attempt it). And why... if you built the Wall, did you build those warriors?

* Sigh... Hunting? That fant early is really that important to you? You wasted research on Hunting!? Since you are close to archery then, why did you bother with the warriors again? Ahah! And please don't tell me you are going for Pottery now!

I would not have gone for Bronzeworking either.. why? So you converted a hill from 3 hammers to 4... whoopie.. You removed health AND a free specialist after biology for that... Well... as long as you you put it to good use I guess... maybe it can be worth the trade...I wouldn't even attempted it. You do realize you can put lumbermills on forested hills right? Then later convert to a preserve?

You know.. you COULD have easily just used the marble to build oracle and you'd have bronzeworking free of charge... if you REALLY wanted it...

Too many other points I don't like to mention...with 45 turns already put into it so far it's looking like fail, but maybe I am missing something... let's see how you do in the other saves...

P.S. It also PAINS me to see an industrious leader, with a capital that is STILL in Fledgling culture status after all this time has gone by :(

I mostly played Deity OCC attempts in Wardlords, and at small maps as I remember. And It was a while ago. I moved settler for better production and since I kind of like workshops. I am not sure about speed of Immortal AIs, so I just sacrificed all forests for wonders. And may be I never used National Park...However, It looks like one of the keys. The same looks Oracle.

Yes, I didnt attempt to steal workers. I want to beat AIs in peaceful game using just diplomacy to make war between AIs.



175 BC
Ok, we've now gone into super-fail mode. I see.... drum-roll... a few cottages... I was worried of that, explains why you wasted so much time and research on that stupid pottery. So now you have a food neutral squares... for a laughable 1c difference... and NO chance to regrow forests... Of all the improvements you could have chosen here.. this was the worst. Honestly, it's better often to leave even an open field-plans tile just as it is.

Those warriors you decided to put to use... but honestly, a cheap 15 hammer scout can do double the distance time than a warrior...

The Parthenon build is very questionable... it will go obsolete (npi) in a while... yet you get stuck with artist pollution.

Luck favoured you a bit to get that scientist for an academy here. But you are going to keep needing luck like that from this point maybe...

Pottery was for granary I guess. And I put cottages since workers has nothing to do (I would put farms, but it can be done only with Civil Service). I don't care much about forests since the probability of growing is not high. But anyway, I will pay more attention to it)

500 AD
So, you added even more artist pollution.. I guess you wanted to go for music to grab a free artist then use a golden-age... the problem, is now you are guaranteeing future artists that you don't want... So what will you do with the others? And that golden age really does not help that much with only one city...

Right now you are already at 20% to pop an artist... how long do you think you can keep dodging that bullet? Your luck is going to run out... Time to go back and re-examine Murphy's Law here.

* STOP THE PRESS *
I just realized now after double-checking... nope, you didn't research Music... It was open to you, but you didn't take advantage of it, instead you went for silly drama. So you didn't even get the artist. You could have also tech-whored Music around for anything you wanted. BIG DOUBLE-FAIL points right there.
**

P.S. With the Celts so close, and with me being a charismatic leader, I would have been raping his civ so bad right now and used the first GG for a super-hero, and settled the rest in my capital. Instead, you built the GW, and are NOT even taking full advantage of it, NOR of your charisma benefits. Another double-fail... I just can't bare to see only half a trait used... but I guess you have your reasons? Don't feel comfortable warring?

Also, trying hard not to criticize you too much, but you're doing something very wrong with your trading (one way or the other). You should be having a clear lead over everyone... I don't see much of a lead here... what am I missing? Is it intentional?

I also think now that Parthenon and Mausoleum were mistakes. At least Mausoleum was. Probably I wanted Drama for trading and Global Theatre. I would like to have Music but lost to AIs, I think it because of former mistakes. I became a tech leader only in the last save.

Actually, I am okay with warring. But want to have solid peaceful strategy as well. Anyway, I will try war since Great general should be good with representation. I never thought about it.


680 AD
So looks like you got smarter, and decided to put a farm down over where you had a cottage before. Well, it's an improvement... By the way, did you know that if you put a cottage down on plains tiles... you prevent the chances of a forest growing there... FOR EVER? Even if the cottage is destroyed.

So even if you like chopping them so much, it's always nice to let another have a CHANCE to grow so you can chop again... just saying... :)

Looks like you probably popped an artist. I am guessing because of the Golden Age. Well, you are going to keep popping them out at 1 out of every 4. That's really sucky. Seems you really trashed the GPP there. Though, it could have been worse if you had built the Zeus with your fants. Ahah!

P.S. I also didn't want to add earlier to the criticism, but I can't keep avoiding the fact any more that you are SO under-armed in your capital. At this late stage in the game, your army defending your capital consists of only an axeman (laugh), and a stone-age warrior (gasp!). I haven't bothered checking the full diplo details, but I will HOPE you have things figured out, and are not just continuing here on blind luck...

It's true. I polluted too much with Great artists. That's bad. Also you could try to check the last save 1250 AD. You can see fine tech leading and fine dimplomatical situation.

Anyway, you could say a couple of good words as well. For example, that Pyramids are rights decision. :king:

And I would be very grateful if you could give a couple of your saves from this games and may be very briefly outline your strategy for OCC games. At least I will start from some good template.


 
Spoiler :
Focus the capital on growth from as early as possible & spam science multipliers is the easy, short answer.
As a general rule, grow first, then hire specs / work food negative tiles. Specialists are at their best when there's nothing of importance to grow onto.
...
ps : if you built the Chichten Itza, did you Oracle Code of Laws ?
...


Spoiler :
that was obviously the case, looking at your lib screenshot. I could barely grow the city over pop 10, running specialists as much as possible and trying to get my research from it. I guess its the balance between wonder whoring and growth. Besides, if not going for culture, you demonstrate that its not necessary to get every single wonder, but focus on the important ones.
-Did you bulb Philosophy?
-At what point did you built a library, right after the oracle?

I would think there will be a point, latest after biology, where your research reaches a maximum level, since you can't grow any further and there are no new multipliers, besides labs - how would one address that - just by winning earlier??:p


Reagarding early wonders:

Spoiler :
I did indeed oracle CoL, but it did not do me much good., As seen, it did not give me a decent BpT-rate, just tons of priests. Will retry with keeping your advices in mind.



In general, its nice to see a game discussed and played by really experienced players. Good luck with your approach.

Spoiler :

would tanks not be the ultimate answer for controlling the territory, to raze the new AI cities?
 
@ DanielTorrence :

Spoiler :
I don't have much in terms of intermediate saves, because OCC plays a lot faster than standard games.

However, regarding the city development :
Keep in mind my city growth was eased a lot by 2 lucky Great Merchants.
Those provide +2 food and the only merchant gpp I got came from the ToA.

As for the early game, as far as I recall, it went like this :
Grow on Warrior while researching Fishing (clams > rice).
Switch to Workboat when Fishing is done, grow to size 2 and work 5H/turn.
Complete Workboat, complete Warrior with 2 overflow from Workboat and working max food.
Start Worker to partial quarry, farm the rice, complete quarry, road quarry.
Once Fishing is in, Priesthood becomes the tech target.
Research goes Mysticism (Mining is unnecessary), Masonry, Polytheism, Priesthood, Writing.
Writing will unlock the relevant techs for the Oracle.
When the Worker is out, Paris aims to grow as large as possible before Priesthood is researched.
It can invest hammers on wonders in the meantime but should not emphasize hammers.
Paris works clams + rice at size 2, then clams, rice and lake at size 3, then some amount of coast at size 4+ to speed up Writing.
Placeholders are the Pyramids before Polytheism is known and then the ToA.

The ToA is crucial to a wonderful OCC since it provides 5gpp/turn, as opposed to 2 for regular wonders. It is, thus, a higher priority than the Pyramids.
Once Priesthood is done, one can switch to The Oracle and time it with Writing, emphasizing commerce as needed or inserting the ToA in the city queue for a turn or two.

Oracle --> Aesthetics unlocks The Parthenon and Litterature.
Tech path can now go Hunting, Litterature.

It's too early, at this point, to focus on the city's infrastructure : the last early wonders should be completed first (or so I think).
So one should complete the ToA and then the Pyramids.
Once these two are done, the player is safe, having a monopoly on Aesthetics.

Build orders can now go : Library, Great Library, National Epic, Granary, Lighthouse, Parthenon.
At least, this is what I've done.
When Litterature is known, Paris is about size 7 and at happy cap. Adding the Granary then is of low priority with nothing much to whip and no growth potential.
After the first revolts (civics, religion), one gets some extra happiness and this is the point where the Granary starts mattering again.
Building the infrastructure before the Parthenon is, therefore, due to timing reasons, as well as to the least importance of the wonder.

Timings :
I should state that I got a very early Alphabet trade, around 1300 BC, iirc. 1000 BC is a lot more common and it might happen that Alpha isn't available before 600 BC.
This makes a huge difference since Alphabet unlocks :
- Monotheism for a religious + civic switch with production bonuses (I could revolt into Rep + OR right after the Pyramids were complete) ;
- Bronze Working, which makes the 2nd worker very much relevant for extra chops and faster land improvement (I delayed the 2nd worker until after the Parthenon and may have been better served to get it right after the National Epic).

So, there, depending on when Alpha comes in, one has to adapt his build orders.
To me, Alphabet screams 2nd worker but this is somewhat dependent on the wonders being built at that time.

Regarding Philosophy : didn't bulb it.
I went for CoL, Civil Service after Litterature, then pondered Paper vs Philosophy.
I went for Paper in the hope to trade for Philo but, eventually, I researched it myself after Paper (Angkor Wat matters).
Then went Education, Printing Press, part-Lib, Gunpowder, Guilds, Banking, Economics, Replaceable Parts, Rifling. Other techs I got from trades.
Maybe I self-teched Drama, because I wanted the Globe Theatre but I can't remember if and when. Or maybe I got it from Pacal.

:)


EDIT :
Some screens, showing the city's development to 600 AD :
Spoiler :
kFk6idu.jpg


hNmoxJa.jpg


euRUy6K.jpg


5B9yaDk.jpg
 
@ Red

Anyway, you could say a couple of good words as well. For example, that Pyramids are rights decision.

And I would be very grateful if you could give a couple of your saves from this games and may be very briefly outline your strategy for OCC games. At least I will start from some good template.

But, I have ALWAYS been saying the Pyramids is a right decision... :) Been saying that for a decade now...!

I will get around to re-doing the initial save again. I went total blood-bath, but I MAY experiment with something new this time and see about a very unorthodox peaceful strategy. I will also experiment with removing the forests, though I'm not liking that idea... we'll see how it goes.
 
Alright, rushed though a trial today with the initial save posted on the top of the thread. Total time is something over 2 hours still, and I got more and more sloppy to down right atrocious as time went on. Though part of it was due to not being exactly in a desperate situation anymore. Ahah!

Nothing really THAT spectacular compared to my old games, but since it was requested... here is my PEACEFUL trial..... Though maybe I lied.... I did a couple DoWs, as you will see. One right at the beginning... but then I held off to the very end. Ahah!

Oh yeah, and as a test, I decided to try settling in place for once (due to the peaceful game).

START TO FINISH
Spoiler :

Uh ohh... what is this? Free slave at turn #7 ? I'll take one!

steal_zpsf2lggphd.jpg


I decided to switch things around, and Oracle bronzeworking instead of my usual big-guns...

oracle_zpsbkovxi8f.jpg


I don't think I've used lib to grab Astronomy in something like 6-8 years (literally). But in this case, I think it's ok. Normally I would just grab nationalism.

lib_astro_zpskwimphhv.jpg


As you can see, even with all the bonuses the AI gets... they still SUCK at teching... this is what happens when you build cottages. I keep telling people.... why do rookies never listen?!

tech_lead_zpstxbtmu6i.jpg


One of my favourite projects. Now... smooth web-surfing from here on.
Oh damnit, just realized I should have hovered my mouse over for more details during that screen-shot. I'll do that in the future.

internet_zps6ue0exxd.jpg


My old friend & close ally thought he could just culture-vic to victory on me... and as a human player I would just sit by and let it happen!? WTH was Firaxis thinking there?

Just need to eliminate one of 3 cities and all will be fine... You'd think my landing party waiting turn after turn in the ocean next to that city should have tipped off something was going to eventually happen there.... but this is Firaxis thinking... there is no intelligence.

Just need to wait 7 more turns....

Boom_zpspope4gxk.jpg


And there you have it. In further stupidity, Pacal decides to make peace, instead of going for my ONLY city... and thus ensuring my space-ship would fail to arrive.... I just love the stupidity of the AI in this game. (Now I think I see why I quit playing).

Victory_zpsa3phrz7n.jpg


 

Attachments

Really, oracling Bronze Working? Isn't that a huge waste, considering how cheap BW is?
Pity Ragnar got Economics first, the free GM is quite nice in OCC.

I hadn't done OCC in ages, for fun I rolled a de Gaulle map on monarch and won easily. It is really surprising how poorly the AI techs.
Spoiler :

In that game I had horses, so I was in doubt whether to use rifles or cavalry. Normally, I'd go Cavalry since it is faster and slightly stronger. But here, I found rifles to also be very good, since they lack a clear counter (until Grenadiers) and have better upgrade possibilities. On monarch, I had few problems with AI resettling the land. I had the impression this actually spread their troops around and left less in defence of their homeland.
 
Really, oracling Bronze Working? Isn't that a huge waste, considering how cheap BW is?

Well, I suppose you could say not oracling Liberalism can be a huge waste too.... since somewhere someone did it before... I had many reasons for doing what I did, pay attention to the map.

I threw in a second quick game on this yesterday afternoon. I tried to duplicate my first game where I had multiple great generals, and was raping all the AIs in my territory. Unfortunately, it didn't quite go as expected and I was forced to abandon that super-aggressive strat partway through and go more gentle.... why?

Spoiler :
Stupid Celts instead of attacking, started building huge stacks and was TOO SCARED to attack me with them. So my general(s) barely got any promotions... and then when the $hit really hit the fan from multiple sides, I only had 1 general which was not really where I needed up in the ranks to be. Lost him, and then decided for a more peace-full route.

Same old after that.... I had to attack Pacal to stop his culture vic... and then the guy of Incas tried to culture on me too.... so I razed every one of his cities... and yet he still REFUSED to vassal when I was parked outside his final one to raze....

Makes me remember how limited you are on different victories with OCC...


Brenus_zpsoecxk6ze.jpg


forest_final_zpsioyifaix.jpg




I forget all the BRAVERY mechanics, but maybe I should not have built stone walls, etc... in order to BAIT more attacks in the early game... it is a thought.

P.S. It could be too much a small sample size to tell, but it SEEMS there is a higher chance for a forest to re-grow after global warming destroyed it... than for a regular forest to grow on its own over empty starting plains.
 
Re. OCC BFC forests I remember a forum challenge game a few years ago where there were like 14+ forests. I played that map several times before I understood that in OCC the modern era is where the AIs are most competitive tech wise, and getting 14 free specialists for that period is huge compared to maybe 1 or 2 extra early wonders which also pollute the GPP pool. Leaving the forests gave a much earlier finish date.

Anyway just figured what applies for 14 forests probably also applies to 6 forests :) Don't remember the diff of that game though, possibly only Monarch.
 
@ Red



But, I have ALWAYS been saying the Pyramids is a right decision... :) Been saying that for a decade now...!

I will get around to re-doing the initial save again. I went total blood-bath, but I MAY experiment with something new this time and see about a very unorthodox peaceful strategy. I will also experiment with removing the forests, though I'm not liking that idea... we'll see how it goes.

Obsolete, thanks a lot!
I finished that my game)


Spoiler :

I finished in 1990 AD. But I must say that I did several reloads. The first 2-3 ones were because of bad diplomatic decisions. So, actually the diplomacy is quite important for high levels. I still don't know well enough all leaders in the game...Another 2-3 reloads were in the final when the situation was far from great.

Brieafly, the game contiued after 1250 AD as follows. Almost beelined to biology and then to Internet. Chinese became stong enough and was a little ahead from me. However, they were terrible in war and the real danger was Ragnar. Mayans didnt have third good city for culture.

After two loses in the final save (one from Chinese spaceship and one from Rangars DoW). I decided to give all tech to others and just hope to get 1-2 tech from Internet. I think I got 1 tech from it, moreover now China wasn't active with building spaceship. Also I remember that I got 2-3 atists. I very stupidly build Hermitage...lol...I forgot that it is a National Wonder too. I would prefer National Park (As I mention I used to play Warlords without this wonder).

Anyway, with those farms and workshops I could build Engines in 4 turns. And building research I had about 600-700 bpt. So, not too bad). About wars...I attacked once with 6 infarty, but they were broken against Cuirassiers I guess...So, I made a peace and this war brings more troubles than benefits.

Well, I just I want to say that totally peaceful game (including to not steal workers) with farms+workshops also possible. If it is interesting I can put a couple of saves which shows how it was going.

And thank you for yours games and saves. I will check them now) So, far I can see only one shorcoming - it is better to workshop elephants) Also, as I understand, the outline of strategy is as follows. Build useful wonders, put great people in city (try to get more engeneers, scintists and priests, or hammers+science), then beeline Lib, beeline Biology, beeline Internet. Don't care about health and happines, defy resolution. At the same time try to keep AIs in wars and hating each other. Also I should try the coast start in with SIP.


 
@ Red...


So.....

Spoiler :

But I must say that I did several reloads.
Tut-Tut-Tut! Cheaters never win!

The general section of the forum is for hot-reloaders.

Maybe you need to slow down on your turns until you are sure you are in a position you can not mess up.

I attacked once with 6 infarty, but they were broken against Cuirassiers I guess...So, I made a peace and this war brings more troubles than benefits.

So, you had all the time in the world to get your charismatic units all leveled up to unbreakable status, and instead you waited until Infantry.... and only brought 6?

Let me guess... you did not even have a single great general in your little stack either did you?

At the same time try to keep AIs in wars and hating each other.
That can often back-fire... but yes, when you have a big tech-lead, you can control the board the way you want :)

I also like to pro-long wars against myself, so I can keep leveling up my units and forcing the AIs to burn off their production. Ahah.

Oh, @ the comment of building the Hermitage... LOL!!! Yes, that was a huge blunder indeed. I feel guilty enough just building the thing that removes all un-happiness from a city... But it's a necessity (kind of) since I am defying 99% of all diplomatic votes and Apologetic Palace.... (or whatever you call that thing).

 
@ Obsolete

Spoiler :


Tut-Tut-Tut! Cheaters never win!

The general section of the forum is for hot-reloaders.

Maybe you need to slow down on your turns until you are sure you are in a position you can not mess up.

Actually, I never reaload in normal games. I mean, if I reload then I consider it as a lost. So, I continued it only as training. I finished my game only to confirm that more skilled player could win it without reloads (since reloads were based on bad understanding of game and leaders). Actually the same problem I met in my Deity game. For example, I didn't expect that Zara can tech so well, or that Sitting Bull can fight well enough with outdated units. And this is important when you need to choose friend and victums.

Well, an acheivemenet 'Immortal-OCC winner' still not achieved. :king:


So, you had all the time in the world to get your charismatic units all leveled up to unbreakable status, and instead you waited until Infantry.... and only brought 6?

Let me guess... you did not even have a single great general in your little stack either did you?

After reading the previous tips on usefulness of the war I decided to fish a Great General. I thought that first strike will be enough againts outdated units. So, I pillaged a couple of cottges, lost a guy and signed a peace with 0 generals fished. May be for me, Spirital will be much better than Charismatic in such types of games. :lol: At least it would save a couple of turns.

That can often back-fire... but yes, when you have a big tech-lead, you can control the board the way you want :)

I also like to pro-long wars against myself, so I can keep leveling up my units and forcing the AIs to burn off their production. Ahah.

Oh, @ the comment of building the Hermitage... LOL!!! Yes, that was a huge blunder indeed. I feel guilty enough just building the thing that removes all un-happiness from a city... But it's a necessity (kind of) since I am defying 99% of all diplomatic votes and Apologetic Palace.... (or whatever you call that thing).

At least it confirms some of my thoughts. So, probbably I am on the right way. Some time ago I couldnt win Diety-OCC Civ2 games...But one day I read that caravans are 'must have' in that game. After that everything became pretty easy. And yes, probably Civ4 OCC (and even in normal games) would be much more difficult if the behaviour of AIs changed when you build/launch Spaceship. They should attack no matter whether they are friendly or not...And UN and AP should be only tools of benefiting/troubling others, but not tools as winning games.


And once more thanks for your advice and comments :goodjob:

 
Quite the lack of food for an OCC attempt it seems. That will surely make things a bit more difficult. I don't like clams too much, but moving off the coast is almost certainly a mistake as you not only lose the clams, but also the 3F lake.

Also good to see Obsolete back.
 
Hmm i never played OCC and this wil be probably total disaster :lol:
However ...
Spoiler :

Haveing The Great Lighthouse dont nessesery meens that i will have 2:commerce: from :traderoute: right ? :lol:
1png_snxqesx.png


Another thing witch amezed me is tile on witch i settled had :commerce: is this river side :hmm:


Edit.
Indeed that was riverside tile :eek: i dont know how it is possible
Spoiler :
1png_snnpswe.png


Spoiler :
Anyway tested couple of things good to know that one is limited to 5 NW only i though that theres no limit.
Not too many sushi resources on map :cry:.
But diplo game was rly exiting, Brennus was plotting on me every time he was out of war, i had to bribe Wang against him then Regnar DoW Wang -> AP peace, and again same scenario :lol: like 5 times :lol:.
I think i will make more seriuos attemtp to Part 2 !
 
Forests do grow over unfinished tile improvements.

Focus on the grassland tile 1 right of the 3 workers. (3 turns to go to finish a watermill)



A forest has grown on the blue circle tile. (8 turns left to complete the watermill)

 
Finally, we have some proof of that. Ahah!

Thanks for catching this one Tatran.
 
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