Immortal+ science output

[kaiserbass]

So I'm able to win consistently up to Immortal, but I'm having some issues with science output -- most videos of high level players I watch have them generating 1500+ per turn around turn 250 (granted this was MaddJinn going for a science victory), whereas my is lagging at 600 around turn 350. Usually, because I can't keep pace, I beeline essential military techs and go for domination because the AI cannot match human tactics.

Just an issue I'd like to fix before attempting Deity.

Does this simply come down to generation of GS and management of specialists? Also fully expecting some scenario dependent answers.

 

[joshua43214]

Usually, because I can't keep pace, I beeline essential military techs and go for domination because the AI cannot match human tactics.

This here is your entire problem in a nutshell.

The simple answer is, ignore military techs.

You can get construction somewhat early, the higher the difficulty, the sooner you need it. On Deity, it often needs to come around the time (or a bit earlier) that you would be researching currency - and is needed more for barb control than anything else. If you are needing early military because of early DoW's, you should re-examine how you settle.

hitting 1500 bpt is pretty high for most games. You pretty much need 6 cities to get that, along with scholasticism with a lot of CS allies. as long as you get between 900 and 1200 bpt you will win before T300 provided your growth was early enough, and by T280 if you got plenty of RA's.

I have not seen a SV from MD for a very long time, so he might just have a large puppet empire in an older expansion, and the video is obsolete.

The only scenario I can see where you would want something like early x-bows is if you get one of the aggressive warmongers right next door and he won't be bribed into warring someone else. Never, for an SV, tech to iron working.

Lastly, make sure you are growing. a decent metric for cities, is a cap ~30 pop, and all expos ~20 pop. Ideally get the cap over 40, and the expos over 25.

 

[bbbt]

As said it's mainly population - use those internal trade routes, and keep your cites in "Food" mode for as much as possible - and beelining mostly along the top of the tree to the different science buildings. Jungle and being near a mountain for observatories also helps a lot.

 

[YourHarry]

As said it's mainly population - use those internal trade routes, and keep your cites in "Food" mode for as much as possible - and beelining mostly along the top of the tree to the different science buildings. Jungle and being near a mountain for observatories also helps a lot.

I agree that population is key. I also use trade routes to deliver food, and I always try to get as many cargo ships (as opposed to caravans) going, as total number you can have is limited. Another important factor is to ally maritime city states. Those extra +1 food per city adds up.

Jungle and mountains are nice for science, but they sometimes limit the tiles you can use for growth and production. One or two mountain tiles, obviously, in a middle of rich resources are ideal but a mountain range or non-resource jungle tiles are not what I am looking for. I also don't improve jungle-banana.

After I fill out tradition, I usually save the culture/policy for rationalism. As soon as I research observatory, I have two free policies saved up to get Secularism.

Time your cities so that they finish libraries right around when you finish researching philosophy. This way, you can start producing NC sooner than later. I usually have 3 or so cities by this time, and if I have a low-production city but decent income, I make it my priority to save up money to buy a library.

In a city that is producing a lot of science, I also make it a priority to have money to rush buy universities, observatory, and research labs so that you will have these key buildings immediately when they are available. So you have to plan ahead a bit - having a rich ally helps with this immensely as you can get cash advancement.