Immortal University 96 - Wang Kon

[rfcfanatic]

@Robert FIN

Spoiler :

Nice REX A few comments:

* You may want to consider settling a city near a fresh water source if possible. It gives you bonus. For example, Pyongyang could have been settled on the hill next to the oasis.

* The location of Ulsan could have been chosen better. It has 2 unworkable and 4 unimproveable tiles and more importantly, no food in immediate city vicinity. I guess 3 tiles to the north from its present location would have been a better place to settle to. But as you chose to settle where it is, build Monument before Granary so you can get the culture going and expand the city borders to the Crab resource.

* Wonsan needs a garrisoning unit ASAP. There are 2 citizens fearing about their safety. Seoul has enough happiness and 2 units. Send one of them to Wonsan.

* There is a farmed Iron resource 1 NW from Seoul.

* You need more workers. Currently you have 4 workers for 8 cities. The recommended ratio is 1.5 workers per city. So, for 8 cities you would need 12.

 

[Izuul]

Wang Kon came a couple weeks earlier because I didn't want two different Toku games going on the forum at once. Also its a little early, but have fun and happy civing.

Spoiler AI :

I added one additional AI.

Edit: Sorry I forgot the tile yields, I just realized that.

Spoiler :

I can't imagine this map with 7 civs. There would've either been one massive civ all alone on one of the bigger continents or a decent-sized continent left totally uninhabited.

Did you add Gandhi or did one of Cyrus/Pacal/Joao/Saladin start completely alone?

 

[Doshin]

No Hwacha love?

Spoiler :

I tried to Oracle Construction, and failed miserably of course. All the same, Giggles techs slowly by REXing into bad land, and Hwachaphants eat Vultures for breakfast.

Researching Alphabet is a strong move here, I think, because Gandhi has a habit of teching Aesthetics, and Gilgamesh will go from Mysticism ----> Priesthood for his UB, and then to Monarchy for his favorite civic.

 

[Izuul]

No Hwacha love?

I thought about it for awhile, does that count?

 

[Tall German Joe]

@Doshin

Spoiler :

i thought about it too, but giggles decided to ride the elephants before i even finished priesthood. no real point in trying for swords or axes vs vultures...

 

[klonoklown]

Spoiler :

I can't imagine this map with 7 civs. There would've either been one massive civ all alone on one of the bigger continents or a decent-sized continent left totally uninhabited.

Did you add Gandhi or did one of Cyrus/Pacal/Joao/Saladin start completely alone?

Spoiler :

I added the additional AI but didn't choose any of them. Gandhi did start on his on continent, but I did no edits.

Also I was very tempted to use Hwacha's but it just didn't happen.

 

[Doshin]

It's not a top tier unit, but with Elephants and a jerk like Gilgamesh for a neighbor, you can't go wrong. Well, you can. But I like using UUs whenever possible. And later, they can serve as a weird niche defense against Melee units (upgrade to Drill I and Shock... strength 10 and a first strike will beat most Macemen, and definitely any Pikes).

EDIT: if Gilgamesh gets the Elephants then... yeah. It's probably best to hunker down and bulb your way to Cuirassiers. Hwachas and Swords will beat Vultures and Protective Archers, but the risk/reward ratio against Elephants isn't really worthwhile.

@klonoklown

Spoiler :

I know that Tokugawa is up soon (after Suleiman?). Could you make his a Pangaea/Pangaea-esque map? Just something that could allow for a prolonged Samurai war, if the RNG gods are willing. 3 AIs on the same land mass would probably be enough, although the more the better.

 

[klonoklown]

@klonoklown

Spoiler :

I know that Tokugawa is up soon (after Suleiman?). Could you make his a Pangaea/Pangaea-esque map? Just something that could allow for a prolonged Samurai war, if the RNG gods are willing. 3 AIs on the same land mass would probably be enough, although the more the better.

My plan is Suleiman, then Tokugawa, just to give a little time in between the NC Toku game. But sure I can make his a pangaea map , drop me a message a little after the Sully game to remind me.

 

[Robert FIN]

@Robert FIN

Spoiler :

Nice REX A few comments:

* You may want to consider settling a city near a fresh water source if possible. It gives you bonus. For example, Pyongyang could have been settled on the hill next to the oasis.

* The location of Ulsan could have been chosen better. It has 2 unworkable and 4 unimproveable tiles and more importantly, no food in immediate city vicinity. I guess 3 tiles to the north from its present location would have been a better place to settle to. But as you chose to settle where it is, build Monument before Granary so you can get the culture going and expand the city borders to the Crab resource.

* Wonsan needs a garrisoning unit ASAP. There are 2 citizens fearing about their safety. Seoul has enough happiness and 2 units. Send one of them to Wonsan.

* There is a farmed Iron resource 1 NW from Seoul.

* You need more workers. Currently you have 4 workers for 8 cities. The recommended ratio is 1.5 workers per city. So, for 8 cities you would need 12.

Spoiler :

1. Oh, thats true! Looks like fresh water gives you +2 health bonus. However the city would get 2 desert tiles if we settle it 1 N. 2. Yup, I made mistake with Ulsan's location. 3. There was mad barb attack in north. Thats why there are no units in all cities. Will be fixed. 4. I'll get another iron from Ulsan soon. Is there some bonus if I have 2 irons? 5. Oops! I must build workers now!

 

[Tall German Joe]

cultural victory 1824 AD, diety normal NHNE

Spoiler :

so, the big war against gandhi, that i was excited about in my last post, ended in a bust. the ap was first called on cyrus the next turn (and of course he and mehmed voted for, gandhi voted against, despite cyrus and mehmed being the invaders and gandhi being the invadee...). mehmed called it on himself next chance he got. that left me standing in the water with a rather significant stack; 8 boats worth of infantry, cavs, and cannons.

i decided against invading, however, as i was confident in my 6 religions would best gandhi's 3. him just getting artillery and rocketry also might have had something to do with it. starting from turn 200, and ending in turn 235, i was able to spread 5 religions from 1 city to 9, and whip, hurry, or build 54 temples and 17 cathedrals. from then on, i just coasted it out... all 3 of my legendaries weighed in at over 1000 culture/turn in the end. pacal declared on me when i was at 13 turns to go, but called the UN on himself the next turn, and the war ended without me seeing a single unit of his on the map. oh well!

 

[Skipity]

Hi everyone!

Taking a break from trying to break through to deity (only won once with religious cheese) to play here on immortal U. I'm pretty comfortable at immortal and like to think I win pretty consistently there when early barbarians don't walk by my sentries to sac my cities.

To Turn 120 (125 AD)

Spoiler :

writeup is being written as I play:

Turn 1 - Warior W, See nothing - move settler to Plains Hill.

Turn 2 - Settle Plains Hill, start worker and Ag. Then Hunting / Archery for barbs.

Turn 13 start warrior, Improve corn

Turn 21 Start stonehenge for fail gold

Turn 23 Start archer. Research wheel. Gonna make one of the floodplains a farm,

Turn 26 Warrior 1 dies.

Turn 28 start 2nd archer.

29 Pottery.

33 start settler

34 start BW

41 start 2nd worker

43 settled toward gilgamesh for blocking. Researching writing.

Turn 50 Writting in 3rd worker complete. Capital and Pyongyang connected. Time for a 3rd archer . . . and a turn of anarchy to slavery. Teching polythism

52 Whip Monument in pyongyang. Buid warrior. And oh yeah - open boarders.

Turn 55 - once again - the barbs walk past the sentry in both spots. What I wrote in the intro was written before this happened. Screenshot:

So I have to move the archer, he dies, and then a barb city is founded the next turn.

60 Whip settler - Switch to animal husbanry

Turn 70 Whip settler.

Turn 76 Meet Ghandi boat.

Turn 80 Meet Ottoman, Start Literature.

Turn 109 (150 bc) Won Music. No religions! Ghandi settled on our continent and my block strategy? Didn't work our too hot mainly on acount of that barb city that the Sumerian Took. Tech rate is Really slow. Built TGL.

Turn 120 (125 AD) bulb philo - found Touism. Parth in.

Ghandi is worst enemy of both the others.

Game is a cakewalk so far. Even if I am short a few workers, I had to double check the settings to make sure it was indeed immortal.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@Doshin: we want dotmap!
Large part of the fun in those shadows, on this map, is that everybody ends up settling different sites. Well... at least it's fun for me


T100:

Spoiler :

Gilgamesh started plotting. Frontline city is building the Great Library and a lone warrior defends it. It's time to... it's time to...

 

[Doshin]

@BiC

Here's a pic from 950 BC, the closest I have to compare with your own:

Spoiler :

I wanted to settler the Cow/Wheat spot south of the capital first, but unfortunately Gilgamesh claimed it before I'd built my first Settler.

I'll post pics from before/after the Hwachapult later on.

 

[Skipity]

Continuing 130 to Turn 244:

Spoiler :

Turn 130 start golden age. Convert to taoism/pacifism/caste/HR - Run 6 Scientists in capital.

Turn 135 traded to ghandi fearing "you traded with worst enemy" but i only took a hit of 1 from the ottomans. Even got to sell music to gilgamesh for 300 gold right after.

Turn 137 last turn of golden age switch to Slavery / Bureacuracy / OR.

Turn 148 Still no teching going on. Ghandi is so weak im' thinking of just kicking him off the island early.

Turn 161 Tech Situation: I'm killing it. Everyone is pleased. Nat, gunpowder done. 1 turn to Liberalism (saved up). 1 turn to printing press. Startin Taj in capital wonsan. Oxford to start in capital in a few turns after cheju finishes the las Seowon. After printing press next turn, i'll probably just self tech up to economics.

Turn 174 (1140 AD) won Economics race (easily). 6 turns til Taj is built. Probably going to DoW on Ghandi with the minimal forces that I have right now in a turn or 2 with the minimal forces that I have. My only hesitation is that the sumarians refused my latest begging (can they declare at pleased?)

Turn 175 Mohemed just went into war mode. I was thinking of libbing miltarty tradtion, but it looks like i can actually lib Rifles.

Turn 176 I meet jao who . .. HAS LIBERALISM! Crap how did I miss that? Oh well, got greedy i guess. He just got it the turn before I met him. Damit, damit, damit. Well, I traded nat to Portugal for Optics and engineering. I'm taking out my anger on Ghandi Right now with a DoW.

Turn 177 Meet Pascal who is mad that I'm a taoist . . And take the 2 cities Ghandi built for me on my continent.

Since I have Since I have no navy, I sue for peace. Even though it likely means that the Ottomans are gonna get to vasal Gahndi instead of me. Actually not sure if this is a smart move or not (Imput appreciated) but his war wearyness was only 115. I'm even gonna trade with him to get theocracy for feudalism- pascal and gilgamesh be damned!

(screenshots)

Turn 178 sure enough, the ottomans just dowed and saced a city

Turn 179 Taj Complete Golden age starts.. Free Market, caste system, theocracy.

Turn 186 Last golden age year: Time to take my tech rate from 811 (at 100%) to 681 (Nationhood / slavery) to 654 after some whipping / drafting to 555 at the start of 187 (1270 AD). I'm thinking of sparing Seoul the Whip because of oxford.

Incidentally, I have the turn 187 (187 the police code for homicide) as the turn you should be just about ready to murder someone. Well, we are getting close:

Turn 188 Meet Saladin:

and as I feared / expected. The Indians are now vassels to the ottomans.

Turn 189 - Time for war!

Turn 197 2 cities sacked. Capital About to fall. Got Astro from Ghandi for Edu and civil service. Bad luck on the south city as i lost 6 rifles each with 65% or more. Oh well, that means he'll be less likely to captiulate. I think I needed more Trebs than i had; cannons coming to solve any confusion.

Turn 199 Gilg will cap so I take it (except for priesthood). Now I have a research and trading partner. Trade for Constitution and Military Tradition.
I've drafted enough, so It's time to go back into Buracracy even though it means a turn in anarchy. I'd go free religion too, but it would take an extra trun and I''ve just begun building cannons

. . . and galleons in my limited port cities. Thinking of targeting Mohemed. Regardless of who I attack, it's gonna come from the east coast. I don't think it's reliable to think jao won't have rifles in 20-30 turns. So actually . . . I might should target the persians. Anyway, we'll see once the boats are built.

Turn 213 - I've decided it has to be mehemed. He's backwards: but the deciding factor is distance to palace and logistics. Perhaps I could have done jao, but he'll still be there when i have infantry Not trading even to gilgamesh yet - want to put the breaks on anyone getting steel or rifles. Question is, is this invsion force large enough? We'll soon find out!

217 So . . . apparntly mohemed has steel. YikeS!

Killed a big stack but have to do a slight retreat. And Heal up. Oh, and since mohemed has steel, no reason not to trade it and get corportation and )un)scinetific method.

221 - another big stack guarding edrine. Do I have enough units?

226 - Yes i do! Oh and psst - How bout that "War time" economy ?

227 Ghandi breaks free. Would I like to upgrade those veteran riflemen to infantry? You bet your sweet bippy! Trade Railroads to my vasel for physics. Tell him to research biology while i go for combustion.

236 - This war is taking to darn long! I wish I had attacked Jao, but 20/20 hindsite and all.

239 Mohemed still hasn't cappped. I should have been razing these cities instead. I raze one city of India and he becomes a vasel. I capture 5 cities of mohemed and he's "doing fine on his own". Alright then: time to get out the matches, we're gonna have ourselves a bombfire!

Burn baby burn! Abtakya destroyed. Had enough?

No - ok it's on to marsin . . .

Razed.

Ready to give up? No? Ok this is stupid.

This must be how Truman Felt after Nuking Herishima. Still not ready to give up huh?

244: You have destroyed Samsun. Maybe he's ready now?

Yup.

FINALLY.


And even got a forbidden palace built already in Kayersi! That' cool guess. Doesn't make up for the freaking 9 turns more that war took than it should have.

Anyhows after I make peace there's no happiness problem and my ecconomy is doing great. 20 cities and 3 vasels. The tech lead and . . . . well this game is in the bag. Any nobel player could win at this point, so I'll probably just leave it here. If you're a noble player and want to prove me wrong that it is indeed losable from this position, please feel free to play on from here.

And I can't be bothered to put the screenshots interweaved with the comments, but here they are:

Spoiler :

Conclusion:

Spoiler :

In sum: I think this map was excessively easy. It felt like a monarch game. The only difficulty on this map is getting early DoWed from Gilgamesh. To avoid this, make sure you keep him in pleased with open boarders, giving in to all his demands, and even gifting him techs to get him to pleased.

Then just make sure you beg him for 10-100 gold every 10 turns when he is pleased with you so you get peace.

 

[Doshin]

Hwachaaaaah

Initial force:

Spoiler :

I teched HBR while waiting for the Mathematics trade. Hence the Horse Archers.

Gilgamesh swings his barb crushing stack round:

Spoiler :

Two cities later, it's on to his capital:

Spoiler :

The last city. Pikemen :

Spoiler :

And capitulation:

Spoiler :

Now I need to catch up with Gandhi...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I understand what happened, you tried to found a religion which is always a bad idea unless you play on settler.

I agree with Izuul to settle on the Incense, as Vranasm said it gains you a forested hill which seems to look like a plains hill to me. It also gains you a junky desert hill, but hammers are hammers, and this start needs them. I would just make another commerce city to the north if it was good enough, otherwise it will do fine to produce settlers, and workers early, and GP later.

???

Founding a religion is pretty solid. All you have to do is bulb philosophy! There are some map spreads where this winds up being the only religion on the continent and then you have a wildfire too, but usually it's just good trade value + deters AI from lib path.

SURELY, he wasn't referring to an actual early religion ?

 

[vranasm]

SURELY, he wasn't referring to an actual early religion ?

you should know better.... check couple of posts from the guy

 

[TheMeInTeam]

you should know better.... check couple of posts from the guy

There is a chance marginally above statistical significance that I knew better prior to making my post.

.

 

[Robert FIN]

you should know better.... check couple of posts from the guy

Shh!! You mustn't tell everything to TMIT!! ! By the way, I've been away from here for few days (you were surely very happy about it ) b/c of my windows crashed and all my saves will be lost once I get it working... Too bad. I was doing just fine with this map. I have to reinstall Civ. I don't know if I get it working today. In any case my saves of this game are gone. I'm still able to post from my phone (like now) until its repaired.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Won a late Space Victory in 1924 AD, Immortal, Normal Speed, No Huts, No Events.

The victory was late as I vacillated between wanting to hunker down and run for the stars or go beat up everyone. I ultimately decided I didn't really want to go through another repeat of the Joao NC game which ended in a slog of 'activate sub, launch three nukes, now para-drop para-troopers individually'. Why does the game force para-drops to be single unit only? Why can't they all be selected at once and told to drop?

Anyway, onto the game:

Spoiler :

I settled in Place, tech path was Agri -> AH -> BW -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing and Alpha. I tried to grab as much land as I can towards the North West as I wanted to seal off the East for myself. This resulted in me grabbing both the Jungle Gems spots without trouble, but I had a city crushed between Giggles' culture after he snuck a settler behind my borders to the North. I gifted the city away to Gandhi as it kept revolting.

Spoiler :

Other than that, there wasn't much trouble with this map on this try, no barb BS!

Built the Mausoleum of Mausollos in 200 AD.

Spoiler :

I milked this one for all it's worth by running five Golden Ages. I think 60 turns is the most I ever spent in a GA.

Won Lib and took Military Tradition in 1070 AD.

Spoiler :

Built the Taj in 1090 AD.

Spoiler :

Won the race to Economics and got the Great Merchant in 1150 AD.

Spoiler :

Declared on Giggles in 1220 AD

Spoiler :

Wiped him off by 1440 AD.

Spoiler :

I won the race to Physics and got the Great Scientist in 1400 AD.

Spoiler :

Won the race to Communism and got the Great Spy in 1450 AD.

Spoiler :

If you are seeing a pattern here, then it's because I was absolutely CRUSHING the AI in tech. No one else even had Scientific Method at this point. The only GP race I lost was for the Fusion's Great Engineer that Joao beat me to by 1 turn. I should have committed to rolling over the world with tanks or going space at this point. But I didn't make up my mind and figured I would at least take out Gandhi for his shrine.

Built the Kremlin in 1560 AD.

Spoiler :

Another wonder I got a lot of good use out of towards the end as I bought stuff with abandon, even bought National Wonders cause I can!

Built the Broadway in 1625 AD.

Spoiler :

Went for Gandhi in 1645 AD.

Spoiler :

He had the Statue of Zeus, so war weariness was a problem. Anti-war Rock songs are what we need! So Rock and Roll was commissioned in 1685 AD.

Spoiler :

Built the Cristo Redentor too on the same turn.

Spoiler :

Then the Eiffel Tower in 1695 AD.

Spoiler :

Hollywood in 1775 AD.

Spoiler :

I obviously missed the memo that I was playing as Wang Kon and not Huayna Capac.

Eliminated Gandhi from the game in 1780 AD.

Spoiler :

We need more wonders! The Three Gorges Dam was built in 1810 AD.

Spoiler :

The Internet in 1832 AD.

Spoiler :

Then Space Elevator(!) in 1902 AD.

Spoiler :

I agree the SE is the worst wonder in the game, but I got Robotics off the Internet and I had hammers to throw at it, so why not?

Assembled a full ship and launched in 1914 AD.

Spoiler :

No one else was even close to winning

Spoiler :

Ten turns of hitting end turn later, I win Space Race in 1924 AD.

Spoiler :

Mehmed was collecting Corporations like some people collect stamps.

Spoiler :

Demographics

Spoiler :

Stats

Spoiler :

Thanks a lot for the map, Klonoklown, it was a lot of fun!