Immortal University PacalII of the Maya

[Dirk1302]

Another installment of the immortal university series since the previous one was a bit onesided. Here's Pacal II of the Maya.

Gold and floodplains both great for Pacal II but no food as of yet, settle in place or....It's often tempting to move the settler but i often regret it later so don't know yet.

You know the drill, reports in spoiler tags with the date specified. As always, enjoy.

Edit: I have inadvertently checked aggressive ai settings.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Hopefully this goes better than the first Immortal Pacal...that box-in job was hell .

 

[Gliese 581]

Big chance of strategic on the plains hill so I don't know. From what I can tell there's the plains hill and two other tiles that could contain resources in the BFC and most likely they all do so perhaps settling in place is the best.

I think I'll move the warrior 1SW on top the hill and the settler 1W and see what are revealed first.

 

[Dirk1302]

We had him before? i drew Charlemagne and Suryavarman first but remembered we already had them. Can't remember Pacal II though. Well i guess we just play with this one, start seems interesting enough.

 

[silverbullet]

Yes, we had him in Immortal University VII
Well, I guess it's a second chance for me. I totally failed in my previous pacal game. Huayna Capac just became too strong and culture pressured all my cities with his wonders.

 

[Gliese 581]

I'm fine with this one or restart. I didn't play the old Pacal one, don't think I've ever played with him in fact.

 

[Dirk1302]

Ah ok it was the axe rush on Lincoln game, that one was not easy. Problem with Pacal is he's rather nondescript so you forget about him easy. I think i'm going to settle in place, good production at least, especially if a rush is needed wandering with the settler can hurt.Indeed there's some chance for a usable strat resource on the plain hill.

Maya has Holkans if you spam them fast with good production it could be game over again soon. I hope the ais are far off.

 

[PaulusIII]

Likely going to play this... LHC first, though.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Kind of tentative BC's update (I'm around 200 BC):

Spoiler :

Stole a worker off hannibal to the east while going standard worker techs (AG/BW/AH/Pottery). Went for IW early here because 1) no bronze 2) I would probably incur Hannibal's wrath for stealing his worker 3) ABigCivFan advocated swords rather than axes in the first Pacal game, citing their city attack and str advantage. Along with the fact that we have some jungle nearby and NO METAL otherwise, I went IW even before writing.

Stealing hannibal's worker I was a bit worried he wouldn't take peace. It was a long time before he'd take peace so I put my warrior on his plains forest hill near his city and camped out a good 20 turns before he decided to end the war (no fighting though). Meanwhile I put a city to the west for gold/corn/marble. My block on Joao failed (god, if this were monarch or even emperor I could choke/block and expand into the whole continent like nothing . Joao got some cities south of me but most of the good long-term ones were jungle cities. In addition to the first gold site I settled the gold/livestock RIGHT WEST of hannibal's capitol and the gold mines SW of those. 4 gold mines!

Then around 800 BC I got DoW'd...by JOAO! Not hannibal. Switched tech to masonry for walls on Hannibal's border. I took his capitol and the first city he settled, but lisbon was JUST BARELY off a CR III sword GG in 2 rounds. I sued for peace (just a 10 turn treaty) so that I wouldn't lose my 2.0 str sword as the sole survivor in lisbon . I'll probably just mass up some more swords/axes via hammers/whip. I'm teching HBR in case Joao manages xbows and I almost have it (protecting me until maces), then I'll probably head the CoL route because I have 7 or 8 cities or something and the only reason I'm not in strike is the resources. Not only is gold buying me , but I have jumbos hooked up too (which means once I get construction I might gain control of the entire continent, even though the other AIs might well be pushing liberalism by the time I get civil service, 20+ cities are worth it).

This map is pretty conducive to a peaceful opening as there's room to expand and good resources. The last time I had an AI get lots of gold on immortal was the FIRST Pacal game, and HC roasted me alive. This time we have more room, and I was NOT going to let mr. financial get his hands on those shinies.

I'll go domination, UN, or space depending on how things shake out, assuming I can hold together.

View attachment 187939

 

[Sleepless]

- 25BC

Spoiler :

Decided to settle in place although where the blue circle was advising would have given us iron so to make up for it.

Always like this event. Also had one giving me an extra gold in the oasis.

Tech path I went Ag/AH/BW/Hunt/Pot/Writ/Mas/Alpha/Priest/Math/ heading for construction. I know I shouldn't do it but I traded for Sail/Mon/IW/Fish/Med but Joao probably won't be around for me to worry about WFYBTA.

All the early religions have been founded elsewhere so I decided to tech towards CoL to find out someone had researched it. Luckily it was Han and he has converted me so some happy times ahead there. I traded Monarchy to Joao so sharing a fav civic has got him to pleased.

Current lands.

With Joao and Han being fast settlers I tried to grab as much land as I could. Most of my cities seemed to be geared for prod. So I've decided they should produce Cats/Phants (I have got a spy in Han's lands so will try and steal Hbr)
swords. Now what to do with these? The fact Joao hasn't got any iron is swaying me towards him for my expansion plans but undecided yet.

Current tech situation.

Demographics. Surprised to see I was 2nd in land, nowhere else to settle though. Unsurprisingly last in soldiers but I have only just got IW until then I could only build Holks/Chars which seemed a bit of a waste. Probably not if I got attacked though.

Finally a shot of the Capital.

I've avoided all wonders so far. Spent a little time trying to build the Mids but didn't have anything else to build at the time. If I manage to get a source of marble I might try for the GLib will have to see although. I'm also going to try and avoid bulbing in this game and will settle most GPs in the capital or Academys.

 

[Gliese 581]

4000 BC - 50 BC:

Advice welcome on how to proceed.

Spoiler :

4000: Move warrior 1SW and Settler 1W to plains hill to reveal a little more. Find pigs and wine. In place means +1 production and one less wasted flood plains but no fresh water or wine. Decide to settle on hill, faster prod and we're expansive anyhow. FPs are also great early for financial civs.
Start worker and Agriculture, both eta 10.

3680: Meet Hannibal and Joao so both are fairly close.

3560: Worker & Ag finish, start on Warrior and BW. Discover Carthage 11 tiles away.

3360: Hannibal founds buddhism.

2960: Bw finishes start on Hunting (Holkans and cheaper AH). I find copper close to Hannibal.

2760: Hunting finished start on AH. Build more warriors and grow to size 4 (I really need to try out another start routine sometime heh).

2600: Settler finishes, I move towards the copper.

2440: Beats Hannibal to copper by 2 turns.

2360: Ah finishes start on TW.

1960: Second expansion to block Joao a bit. He could have beat me to it by 1 turn but luckily put a city closer to his capital instead.

1920: TW-> Pottery

1840: Hannibal completes TGW.

1360: My economy tanks a bit after second expansion so Pottery comes slow. Start on Fishing with intention of getting sailing and hook up 4th city faster.

1080: I was a bit slow in settling my 4th but both Hannibal and Joao seems to have taken a break at the same time, was a little risky though.

Finish Fishing and start on Writing. Should have gone Writing directly but miscalculated research vs build times and discover I want libraries soon.

975: Joao has me a little worried with aggressive settling and leaving me behind in power rating.

925: Hannibal finishes The Pyramids, also in Carthage. Looking juicy..

800: Finish Writing, start on Sailing followed by Masonry (to hook up marble early for the commerce mostly, unsure if it was the right move).
My plan is to stay at 4 cities and tech rapidly and go for Elephants and Catapults and dow someone.

625: Hannibal asks me to convert to Buddhism and I accept. I didn't adopt Buddhism when it spread, partly hoping for this scenario and partly in case Joao got a different religion.
Masonry finishes start on Aesthetics. (Both Joao and Hannibal have good land and Hannibal has Pyramids so I hope one of them gets Alphabet to trade since I'm going for TGL to utilize my marble hookup).

525: Joao gets Alphabet, great.

350: After finishing Aesthetics and putting 2 turns into Alphabet I trade for it with Joao. Then I trade for IW with Hannibal and discover a source of iron within Mutal's BFC, vindicated in moving!
Start on Polytheism.

300: Finish Poly, start on Lit. My cities have gotten all infrastructure at this point and are building various wonders all around for cash.

200: Joao completes GLH in Lisbon. Another juicy capital on my landmass..

175: Finish Lit, start on Math. GS is born and settled in Mutal. I only put 1 turn into maths here to trade for it later, then start on HBR.

125: Hannibal asks for Litterature, I give it to him. No risk in losing TGL with 2 turns headstart, marble hookup and chopping.
I discover a second source of copper at my copper city, definitely HE-material.

100: Joao threaten for Poly, sure thing.

75: GG born abroad.

50: HBR finish and I have 1 turn left on TGL. I trade Lit to Joao for rest of Maths and start on Construction.
I decided to pause here, I'm moving toward army buildup. The question is whom do I attack? Joaos land is a little less hilly and cultured but he's got more cities and troops overall I think. Pyramids in Carthage, GLH in Lisbon.
Hannibal likes me more than Joao, perhaps I can get him to friendly with a little luck to secure my back?
Also, I have 1 turn left on SOZ, should I finish it to ensure Hannibal or Joao doesn't get it (they both have ivory) or should I cash in for gold? I won't need much gold to finish Construction but it's always nice to have.

Screenshot of empire:

Edit: Why is it I always forget to post saves? Added.

 

[Gliese 581]

TMIT: Add save!

Sleepless:

Spoiler :

Looking nice, pretty similar to my own except more cities and not going for TGL (yet at least).
I think you should assemble your army and then check to see if Joao has gotten HBR yet, if not you might have a window to capture Lisbon without facing elephants if you prefer.
You could also pretty easilly cut off Hannibal's access to strategics by pillaging around Sicca as you move and capture Hadrumentum followed by Hippo. After that he'll only have horses and you can capture Carthage (w Pyramids!) and Kerkouane to get the holy city and remove access to horses as well. That's actually probably the most profitable choice. Only 1 of the 4 cities on hill also.

Hmm the trouble is a potential two-front war, I think both Joao and Hannibal are daggers, need to read up on them in the bts reference.

 

[Jet]

Spoiler :

Settle in place (too much risk of losing food) and do standard Worker/Agr, then started Barracks while waiting for BW. Improved Wine first to get BW faster to chop another Worker.

From the diagonal I could just barely see that Hannibal was not on a hill, so I decided to do a hardcore rush.

2000 BC improved Wine, Plains hill, and that's it. 2 Workers chopping. Size 4. Six Barracks-ed Holkans start marching. A few more chops, then I'll resume improvements.

1880 Writing -> Alphabet in case I need to build research.

1640 6 Holkans reach Carthage with 5 Archers (1 CG, 2 Combat)... and Walls. Maybe the Great Wall should have been a tipoff that he had Stone? lol Other Holkans are respectively 4, 5, 8, and 9 turns away from attacking Carthage. All I can do is choke and pillage. Main stack all take Combat and disperse into 3 stacks for pillaging. Switch build from Holkan to Settler (for intervening Pig/oasis/Gold city) and switch from Alphabet to Masonry. It's a long way to Construction, though.

1440 I thought I might grab Hippo, which he has founded on the Horses to his northeast, but he has found metal somewhere and an Axeman appears there.

1280 I get his Iron, but am starting to lose Holkans and won't be able to maintain the pillage. There are too many Axemen (two). A Portugese city is 4 tiles SW of my start. Resign.

 

[Sleepless]

@Gliese 581

Spoiler :

I played the next round very badly. I left it much to late for an attack with medieval troops or phant/cats and was to slow in building my army. A slight clue, I had pikes for his phants. Shame he had them for mine as well.

War is probably the weakest point in my game. I either take to long to prepare or take to few/to many troops.

Looking at your report Han looks the better target but after my debacle I'm not sure I'm the best person to comment.

I would take the cash from the SoZ just make sure if you attack someone who has it to try and take the city early.

 

[Belisar]

@ Gliese

Spoiler :

Both won't attack at pleased, so you can base the decision on potential short-term gains by choosing the first target.

 

[Rusten]

Post 3500 BC.

Spoiler :

Surprised not more people have gone for an early religion, so far I'm the only one. There's so much going for it this game.

- flood plains to grow and get commerce on + starting with mysticism
- a 3C wine tile to change to after growing!
- fractal can mean isolation
- Pacal/financial and a starting location like this is great for a cultural victory. An early religion helps keeping that option open.

 

[Sleepless]

- 1370AD

Spoiler :

In 50BC I had decided to attack Joao but wondered somewhat off this path and didn't end up declaring until 1030AD. What went wrong?

Instead of using phants/cats as I planned I built my army too slowly. I should have used slavery but spent most of this time in Caste. Tech path I went for CoL/Curr and Civil Service. Then I thought maces would be nice to go with my army so MC and Machinery were needed. I also noted that the GLib hadn't been built so even more of a distraction. I did start the GLib but Joao stole Lit from me and built it before me at least I would get it later.

After Machinery I headed for Eng for pikes/trebs and eventually declared on Joao.

My army ready to go. Most of my cities could produce units very quickly and I was going to need all the reinforcments I could get.

I hadn't looked at the settings but would just like to thank Dirk for having the Aggressive AI turned on. Would explain why I had a lot of troops to fight!!

Managed to take out his first city ok which was on a hill. Lucky for me as I would be defending it for a while. All but one of my cats were suicided against troops outside the city and eventually after killing off most of his non garrison troops I could move out.

Lisbon and the GLib are mine. Fine place for a GP farm? Joao obviosly thought so.

By now the war had gone on to long. I was in a big tech hole so took Joao's offer.

By now most of the other AI had met me. So a shot of the tech screen is needed.

At least I'm not the dumbest. Apart from Mansa who was miles ahead note he already had physics the other AI were reasonably close. I really was going to try not to bulb anything in this game but here is a good time to do it.

Being able to set Joao's research enabled me to catch up later although still miles behind Mansa. At least I could trade techs no-one else had anything for him.

To win the game I was going to have to stop Mansa but that was going to take some time.

Glance screen.

Ragnar was Churchill's vassal and there had been plenty of fighting between them and Mao probably leaving Mansa alone.

On to the next few hundred years.

 

[Dirk1302]

^omg beside chosing PacalII that we already played i have turned aggressive ai on , i didn't mean to do that, i hate that option. Must have misclicked .

spoiler ~400 bc

Spoiler :

Well i got punished for it Han declared on me ~400 bc, i was ready for that though. I wouldn't have settled so aggressively towards him had i known of aggressive on. i will write a full report later as i have almost finished the game now.

 

[Snaaty]

sorry, offtopic:

Obsolete recently asked me to play a 2players teamgame against 3 AI teams on immortal. Was great fun.

If anybody wants to try just PM me, I would be up for 2-3 hours play in half an hour (via the multiplayer-lobby)

sorry to disturb