Imperial Trash.

[Ozbenno]

Edit - I wanted to think about this start while I should be working. Can anyone tell me what techs Darius starts with - I want to say Hunting and Agriculture, but not 100% sure.

You're spot on!

 

[TriviAl]

You're spot on!

Oh dear! That may be a sign of playing too much Civ IV - if such a thing is possible.

Thanks!

 

[r_rolo1]

Somehow I managed to miss 1 page of discussion ...

About the victory goal: I would say that is better to all the people to follow the same objective , but here there are players with very diferent playing styles, and forcing some people to a victory type they do not feel confortable ( like me with diplo ... I tend to kill my best friends ) may be not good. And a sigleminded pursue of a victory type can make that a sudden window of oportunity about some thing on the game may be not utilized.....

 

[50_dollar_bag]

I've played already. Hope that was ok, Victory type wouldn't changed my settling or tech path choices at this stage anyway.

Spoiler :

moved scout to the desert hill and spotted more floodplains and stone, with this in mind I wanted to get a second city with stone floodplains and river, so I moved my settler 1E to the Floodplain and settled as I wanted river access. Probably wasn't the best idea as further scouting revealed no good city site for the stone.
Build order was Scout=>worker=>warrior=>warrior=>Settler=>warrior=>worker=>settler it think (i forgot to write this down)
Research was AH=>mining=>BW=>mysticism=>wheel=>pottery=>masonry=>writing
When BW was finished it revealed that copper was in the settlers original BFC.

Summary:
Population= 9
Cities= 3
Wonders= none planned one of the stone wonders, most probably Pyramids.
units = 3 warriors, 2 workers
Income = -4 gold at 100% 18 beakers
expenses= 4
Techs= AH,mining,BW,Myst,wheel,Pottery,masonry,writing. =9
Civics= slavery
Religion= none
Current gambles= a wonder or two.
Short term plans= a wonder or two
Medium term plans= expand plus a wonder or three

Spoiler :

Looks as if we're isolated on the largest island I've ever seen. Only 2 happiness resources visible, Gems (far away) and whales (requires optics) so happiness is going to be a problem without HR so I think I'm definately going to go for the 'mids, Stonehenge might also be a good choice maybe too late though. When I saw the stone on the first turn I immediately wanted the Great Wall but now it gives Great Spy points I don't want my first GP to be a spy considering we might be isolated so I think I'm going to deal with barbs the old fashioned way.

Hopefully moving my capital won't hinder me too much, still unsure whether it was a wise choice, still convinced river access for levees was a good idea though.

Still have some uncharted areas as my scouts got eaten.

Have seen a few Barb warriors milling around Persepolis.

Copper will be hooked up in a couple of turns and stone in about 6 or so.

Spoiler :

 

[cabert]

played up to 1480BC.

Spoiler :

summary :
2 cities,
7 population total (capital is size 5, second city is size 2)
income +2gpt at 80%, 20 beakers/turn
expenses = 3
techs = AH, the wheel, pottery, writing (popped from a hut), mining, BW, mathematics in 10 turns.
units : 1 axe, 2 warriors, 1 worker (second worker in 3)
civics : slavery
nothing special (no gamble, no great person generated...)
short term plans : a library in the capital
medium term plans : cottages + HR (very likely through pyramids if I get a third city on the stone I just saw).

what happened?
I settled in place (hesitated a bit), send the scout scouting (duh!) while building a worker and teching to AH. I was expecting to find a neighbour and really wanted horses. After the worker was done, I started a warrior to supress "safety" unhappiness. My worker was really busy cottaging when a random event removed the cow pasture .
My scout was eaten by a lion while fleeing from a bear . Not much scouting done, no happy resource in sight .and no neighbour found.
On the bright side, my defensive moving of a warrior in front of my settler was successful. Second city with horses, crabs and deer, lacking a worker because of the random event.

edit 2 : I got sailing too, which is THE tech making fishing villages paying for themselves for a financial leader.

edit : I saw that 50$ only played up to 1520BC, and put my 1520 BC save aside. Not much difference between the 2 saves except 1 more turn on everything that's started.

 

[cabert]

so do we play to 1480BC or 1520BC?

 

[pigswill]

Silly me. I said 1500bc without checking that a turn actually ended on that date. If the 1520 people want to play another turn up to 1480bc and add another save that's fine by me but I suspect that one turn isn't going to make a huge difference (or people would have played the extra turn anyway).

 

[Ozbenno]

I'm an idiot

Spoiler :

Well I should think about a plan of action for these turns. Financial/Organised is a great trait for teching. So short term priority is to get cottages on the floodplains asap. Then expand to 3-4 cities quickly and then see what the world looks like.

I'll want to get to Alphabet quickly, to start trading. I may attempt to found Confusciasm. I'll also attempt Pyramids as it seems to go late in BtS.

If we have a very close neighbour, a rush will be attempted.

Here's a look at our capital.



Only cows in BFC, that always makes me think a resource will appear. Horses would be good, to Immortal rush someone. Given that (and the cows), I'm researching Animal Husbandry and starting a worker.

We pop a scout from the hut

I then pop a map, which exposes a lot of the land east but I can't see any neighbours.

As the two scouts (well actually one as a lion kills the other) explore, it is apparent we are alone on the island.

We have a decent area to call home. Space or Culture win would seem fairly straightforwards from here. Let's play peaceful expansion and fast tech! Optics becomes a priority as well.

We have copper

Second city.



Third City.



I continue on from here and suddenly realise that I've gone past the 1500BC cut-off date. In fact I realise at 1120BC.

I fully intend to continue from my save regardless but I'll have to disqualify my save for consideration.

Tech Path: Animal Husbandry, The Wheel, Pottery, Mining, Bronze Working, Masonry, Writing, Mysticism, Polytheism, Priesthood

For what its worth

summary :
3 cities,
8 population total (4,3,1)
income -4gpt at 100%, 29 beakers/turn
expenses = 4
units : 2 axes, 2 warriors, 3 workers (second worker in 3)
civics : slavery
short term plans : Pyramids (currently in 54 but stone hocked up in 2 turns and plenty of chop available)
medium term plans : Get to Optics asap and make contact. Found Confusciasm and get a scientist employed in capital. Couple more cities.
Major problems: happiness and isolation.

 

[pigswill]

Ozbenno: I guess you haven't got a save or autosave you could submit for general admiration.

 

[Ozbenno]

I've got a 1120BC save but didn't want to submit as its disqualified (can put it up if you want).

 

[TriviAl]

Here we go!

Played up to 1480BC... seemed the right number and let me squeeze in city 3.

Spoiler :

-Total population (#pop heads in your cities): 8
-Number of cities: 3
-Wonders built/planned: Strongly considering Oracle. Possibly Pyramints.
-Units: Worker(3), Scout(1), Axemen(2), Warrior(2)
-Income: +22 Science at 100% and -4 gold
-Expenses: -4 of city maintenance.
-Techs discovered: Mining (3680BC) > Bronze Working (3120BC) > Animal handling (2680BC) > The Wheel (2360BC) > Mysticism (2120BC ) > Fishing (1960BC) > Pottery (1760BC) > Writing (1480BC) > Meditation (not started)
-Civics: Slavery
-Diplomatic status (OB, War, etc): NA
-Religion: NA
-Great people (planned, used): Scientist soon. Maybe.
-Current gambles: Considering Oracle
-Short/Medium term plans: Libraries. Finish Exploring. Get non resource happiness - religion, civics.

The world at turn 63:

More detailed Breakdown of the turn and my thinking:

Move my scout E-SE and see nothing interesting. Decide to settle in place. Was considering moving to get a river square if there was any mileage in it...

Debate whether to head straight for AH or go for mining/BW. Decide on mining/BW and will irrigate the first FP while I wait. Figure this gives me a nice food surplus to grow with, while leaving the other 2 FPs for cottages later. I'll go with an early chopping economy.

Get a sea map from the NW hut. Woo. The hut on the desert hill to the NE yields more maps. Must be my lucky day or something. Get 40G from a hut to the SW. Get 24 from one far to the NE.

3520BC - Hinduism founded IBT.

3440BC - Budhism founded IBT.

3400BC - finish first worker and start on a warrior while growing to size 2.

3120BC sees a veritable surge of activity - Bronze working finishes, my worker finishes the FP irrigation, Persepolis grows to size 2. I switch to making a 2nd worker and move the 1st worker to chop. Revolt to slavery.

In fantastic news, we have copper in the BFC. WoW!

In 3040BC, my scout defeats a second lion to become a powerful woodland 1 scout. Cower before his might!

3000BC - get a forest burning incident, pay 10g to preserve my hammers and health bonus.

2800BC sees worker 2 join the line.

2680BC is Animal Handling time - I can't see a source of horse anywhere. Time to find a new dealer, methinks?

2560BC finish the warrior, start a settler.

2320BC - Settler finishes, start a 2nd warrior.

2280BC - Warrior > Rax.

2240BC - Found Pasargadae to the north.

Not a great site, but feel it offers good short term commercial/whip potential - which is what I really want right now - with this seeming lack of neighbours...

2000BC - Finish the Rax - start an axeman.

1920BC - Persepolis grows to the happy cap - MM for no growth.

1880BC - first axe finishes, start a 2nd as there are a lot of barbs about.

1760BC - Pasargadae finishes worker > Work boat (exploring). Persepolis Axeman > Settler.

1520BC - Persepolis Settler > Axeman.

1480BC - last turn - discover writing - found Susa. IBT Stonehenge is completed.

Susa is founded to take advantage of 2 food resources and bringing the stone online. It will make a good whip and cottage type of place. With the potential to run a specialist or two.

My plan would be to make a stab at The Oracle - if we get it, then can grab CoL, hopefully with Confucianism. If we fail, move towards CoL anyway - with Organised and a fairly large island to fill, courthouses are a really good thing.

Happiness is a real problem. Several ways around this. Firstly, grab monarchy and go for HR. More riskily, make a stab at the pyramids with the stone and highly productive capital - go Representative and bulb/specialist/+3 happy cap our way to success. Or get a religion - no neighbours means no diplo penalties and the happy cap/OR build bonus would be very nice.

My city plan - Capital as production (and cottages when cap grows), Susa running specialists (and whip), Pasargadae running cottages (and whip).

Not a particularly nice start, no 'must have' city locations, no nearby happy resources and no neighbours that I can see - ah well!

Bit shakey about my start, kinda hoping the fishing + workboat gamble pays off and we find some neighbours. And that they aren't already building a spaceship!

Here is The Save

 

[shyuhe]

I played up to 1480

Spoiler :

Total pop: 6 (3 and 3)
2 cities
Stonehenge built next turn
5 warriors, scout, and 2 workers
17 bpt, -2 gold/turn
techs: mining (hut) --> AH --> BW --> masonry --> wheel --> pottery --> myst --> poly (2 turns)
civics: slavery
plans: Build pyramids slowly in the second city (another 30 turns without chopping!), otherwise go to expand slowly. I had the chance to build the GW instead of stonehenge but I decided against it - I have copper so I'm not worried about barbs and I don't want the great spy corruption of my GP pool. I don't really want the pyramids, since I'm going to need HR to grow my cities bigger. The representation bonus isn't going to cut it with the resources on this island. However, the hammers will be nice when it gets converted with the stone bonus, which will probably around 300-400 gold at a minimum by the time an AI rival finishes it. In the meantime, I can still work cottages with my second city and just let it grow naturally. I am planning on chopping/whipping out the oracle, as the AI field seems very slow on wonders (GW hasn't been built yet!).


I found out we're isolated pretty early as I popped a scout from my first hut and was able to map out the entire island before one of them got eaten.

 

[r_rolo1]

My humble attempt, until 1480 BC

Spoiler :

I decided to settle in place, to research AH ( Immortal rush, duh ) and worker first....This what i discovered of the world when finished AH:

Spoiler :

Later I discovered horses in a really bad spot ( in the tundra on the south )... Can be a decent specialist city ( has deer ) but would not be my first choice for second city.
My scout continued to explore and popped some gold and this:

Spoiler :

This made me wonder if Henge would be a option.... Stone nearby and border popping. Posterior events would make me go this way:

Spoiler :

I was starting to think that we were isolated, or at least almost isolated ( good, a LHC trash version ) . Further exploration proved me right:

Spoiler :

Ok, Isolation... This one I know how to cope ( at least in Monarch.... ). A option is to try Henge + GW (+ Oracle, if you're very lucky or Ind ) and ReX all you can. As I had stone nearby I decided to go that way:

Spoiler :

When building GW, I popped this event:

Spoiler :

I choosed the 1st : the other options involved a or two in exchange for a possibility of extra , and in Civ IV, is far more important than ( at least in the opening moves ).
Finally the GW:

Spoiler :

Some more turns and we got to 1480 BC

Spoiler :

Thoughts and reminders to my next turnset ( if I decide to keep this ):

-Make a settler ASAP.... 2 wonders with a no-Ind leader is a high stake in terms of early development. We need to start ReXing .... ( i could easily had a extra city if I had not made the wonders... )
-CoL... a very needed tech in a medium range. Oracle it is a high stake...
-Get the horse spot....
-If this is a Hemispheres map ( can't remember for sure ) it is likely that we have a continent north of us. Need to expand towards that direction

Now it's time check the other games

 

[r_rolo1]

Some notes on the other games:

Spoiler :

50$ bag:
- 3 cities ( I like your third one )
- No wonders
- 3 warriors as garrison
- Tech in research: writing ( no myst branch )
- No resources connected

Cabert:
- 2 cities ( 2nd sw of horses )
- Crabs + Cooper + Cows connected
- Has writing ( no myst branch )
- 1 axeman
- No wonders ( Henge and Oracle BIADL, in the same city ( Ind civ? ) )

Trivial
- 3 cities ( same dotmap as 50$ bag )
- Cooper + Cows connected
- 2 axes
- No wonders ( henge BIADL )
- Fishing + Writing ( Meditation in myst branch )
- No masonry

Shuyhe
- 2 cities ( 2nd 1W of stone )
- 5 warriors
- Researching Poly ( for ToA ? Hindu is already founded ), no writing, no fishing branch
- Building Henge ( 1 turn for completion ) and Pyramids

Of course I've not included my save in this analysis....

 

[remconius]

Nice starts all, unlike Stuge in Team A+. Curious to see how this pans out. Surprised there was no more chopping done. With the heaps of forest, for me it was a no-brainer to pick up the axe and start deforestation.

@r_rolo1: Can you add to your reports and include in the future, the standard game summary?

Without access to the game it allows easy comparison of the games.

What are we doing about victory condition after this first turnset? Space Race? Or galleon based domination?

 

[remconius]

Nice starts all, unlike Stuge in Team A+. Curious to see how this pans out. Surprised there was no more chopping done. With the heaps of forest, for me it was a no-brainer to pick up the axe and start deforestation.

@r_rolo1: Can you add to your reports and include in the future, the standard game summary?

Without access to the game it allows easy comparison of the games.

What are we doing about victory condition after this first turnset? Space Race? Or galleon based domination?

 

[cabert]

there is some spoiler (although all of us seem to have found out already) in the isolation fact.
I guess we're running for space, since the only other option is cultural.
A galleon based domination in BtS is proving nearly impossible because of colonial costs (at least that's my opinion).

 

[shyuhe]

I'd be willing to try a domination victory given these conditions but it also means that I'm going to be pursuing a very different strategy from the rest of the crew. Is that a good/bad idea?

Also, I'm going to be out this weekend so I'm going to play my set early (I'm playing on from my own for this upcoming set since I have to play by Tuesday). What year are we playing till pigswill?

 

[pigswill]

Shyuhe: next set is up to 1ad.

I personally ain't thrilled with the idea of domination but that's mainly because it's likely to involve moving around very large stacks for lots of turns. I've done it before but I do find the micro-management tedious.

It would be more difficult to compare a domination game to a space game in terms of overall progress but I wouldn't like to impose a victory condition unless there's an overwhelming team mandate on this issue.

Cabert pointed out that there's an imbalance in numbers between Team A and Team A+. Does anyone from Team A want to swop teams?

 

[TriviAl]

Nice starts all, unlike Stuge in Team A+. Curious to see how this pans out. Surprised there was no more chopping done. With the heaps of forest, for me it was a no-brainer to pick up the axe and start deforestation.

@r_rolo1: Can you add to your reports and include in the future, the standard game summary?

Without access to the game it allows easy comparison of the games.

What are we doing about victory condition after this first turnset? Space Race? Or galleon based domination?

I did a fair few chops. Could have done more, but there were 2 things holding me back: a) I want to chop/whip the oracle. b)I'm leery of overchopping these days. If the tiles are otherwise unremarkable and would be unworked, then I try to preserve the forest for the health and other benefits.

I think the island start leads us towards a space or cultural victory. Possibly conquest if we're feeling masochistic?

I'm kinda with Cabert on galleon domination with colony costs. Although colonising/vassalising the conquests might work - still not tried that yet - but it'd mean conquering a whole lot more land.