Improving on Monarch level

[Seraiel]

Research should go Paper after Theo. You don't need Feudalism except if you want to vassal someone. AIs also like to research Feudalism, so you can probably get it from someone else than Mansa.

The plan is:

1. Swit h Civics without going into Anarchy because of the GA.
2. Run as many Scientists as possible in your larger cities, they shall create at least 1 Great Scientist so we can bulb Education after Paper. 1 city shall run Merchants, so that you get enough money to upgrade your Elephants to Cuirrs once you got them.

 

[Seraiel]

You can btw move your units over to Giggles. Once the GA is over, we'll go rampage with double promoted Catapults thx to Theo.

Also, post a screen showing your complete empire and your forces, so I can estimate how many units we need to whip.
Take 1 unit to explore Giggles defences. Set signs with how many defender are in a city when you scout, thats ALT + S.
If you can get Giggles on pleased, we probably even can bribe him to Caste, then he can't whip units when we declare war .

 

[Todelotti]

I post the city screens tomorrow, it's too late now. Should I do that before or after start of the Golden Age and Civics change (if that matters at all)? I hadn't read your last 2 posts before I wrote the following, so not everything is taken into account. Will take a closer look tomorrow and provide missing info then.

Turn 135 - 500 AD

- As already mentioned earlier, war is over and Montezuma dead
- Kept 2 of his cities
- Heroic Epic finished in Haithabu
- Second Great General attached as Instructor to HE city Haithabu
- National Epic in Uppsala will still take some time (maybe 10 to 20 turns depending on the tiles being worked) due to very few hammers available, no forests around Uppsala for chopping available anymore
- 2 Theatres finished, one more in production
- Military all moved back to Nidaros (the 3 cities in the west only have one defender each now (Archer/Warrior)). Current army now consists of:
-- 11 War Elephants (1 more in production)
-- 4 Catapults (2 more in production)
-- 2 Axes (one of them is the Supermedic)
-- A couple Archers and Warriors for city defense
- Traded Drama+Lit for CS with Ramesses
- Theology finished
- Traded Theology+Music+Compass for Philo+MC with Mansa
- Paper in research queue
- After CS most Workers are focussing on farms and irrigation chains for the east cities at the moment
- Scout is returning from far east and about to enter Gilgamesh's empire again to spy a bit what units he has
- Prepared for Golden Age and Civics change (which I haven't done yet but can still do this turn)

Uploaded screenshot and save.

 

[M3dge]

Welcome M3dge! Isn't that great how helpful the experienced players are here? And on top of that from Seraiel you learn the rule: Every single turn has the potential to screw up a whole game! After a few days you can only click on the red button with a trembling hand and in the night you wake up with a hammering heart: "OMG, didn't I forget to gift Sailing to BurgerKing?"

Edit: BTW: If you got strategic questions or comments or so that fit into the context along the game feel free to jump into the thread! I don't consider this as "my thread" or something. I can only learn from different aspects and viewpoints.

Thank you, I will indeed do so - travelling at the moment but will try to keep up with this as much as I can

 

[Seraiel]

You can start the GA, then switch to the civics I mentioned and after that, you post screenshots.

Also forgot: plz also screen from resourcetrade.

And notify your research before starting the GA. It's gobna be funny ^^

 

[kevtrev]

I had a look at the save, you're doing really well. First in tech, biggest GNP, biggest army. Gotta love Monarch!

Shame about the NE not being ready, but go ahead and run your Golden Age. For the first 5 turns at least you can run 6 Scientists in Uppsala, 4 Scientists in Haithabu and 6 Merchants in Birka, then adjust before the cities starve.

I noticed

-you should spread Judaism to your western cities

-you need more catapults

-HE city will want a forge

-not sure if Seraiel will agree, but I would cottage riverside plains and green hills in Nidaros to maximise and not bother working Specialists there.

 

[Pangaea]

Looks very nice so far. Once you get Feudalism from Mansa or others, there is a decent chance Mansa will peace vassal to you. Especially once you get Giggles' cities so you have more bordering tiles with Mansa. Logistically, maybe it makes most sense to attack the NE city first, before heading into Giggles' core. Does he only have one city over there, while the rest if N and NW?

You may want to park some warriors or archers in the south to prevent barbs spawning.

At some point you want a city to grab that clam, but chop the forest there before settling on it. That way you get some hammers from it.

Personally I don't like to cottage hills, prefer the hammers from them instead.

Btw, if you have next to no hammers in the NE city, you can fasten up the building of it by whipping something with max overflow into the NE.

 

[Seraiel]

I'm waiting for the screenshots, some cities will want Forges, but maybe just nor right now. During the GA we want as many Specialists as possible and after that, we need a few more Elephants + Catapults for Giggles. When he has enough troops, then build Forges, not eaelier.
And I'm heavily against cottaging hills of plains, all those hills will help a lot once he tries to build Oxford. Instead of working Plains I'd either choose Specialists or I'd whip troops.

 

[kevtrev]

And I'm heavily against cottaging hills of plains, all those hills will help a lot once he tries to build Oxford. Instead of working Plains I'd either choose Specialists or I'd whip troops.

Using hills for production I can understand. But why would you rather whip the bureau cap than work cottaged plains? And how could specialists be considered better, especially given other cities will be producing the GP? For each specialist you could work two plains tiles, or 6 vs. 2 + 6.

 

[Seraiel]

Using hills for production I can understand. But why would you rather whip the bureau cap than work cottaged plains? And how could specialists be considered better, especially given other cities will be producing the GP? For each specialist you could work two plains tiles, or 6 vs. 2 + 6.

At the moment, todelotti still needs a lot of troops and infrastructure, therefore I'd whip those tiles. The Specialists would only be there to finish the next GP after the GA.

When those Plains will become workable, he'll have Biology or Communism, then even Plains are attractive.

Anybody interested in calculating a whipping-cascade for Todelotti to 1T build Oxford?

 

[kevtrev]

Anybody interested in calculating a whipping-cascade for Todelotti to 1T build Oxford?

How does that work?

 

[Seraiel]

We must bring at least 3 buildings to max OF. Once building has maxOF don't whip but build thenext building 'til it has max OF. Cotinue this with the 3rd building, once that has also max OF, whil all 3 buildings on 1 turn and queue them in the order from small to large. The OF from each building then adds on another, so when queuing Oxford, there is mega huge OF.

We also need a Forge for this, so I'd propose to whip that one first. Orher buildings for the OF cascade could be the university, a market and probably a Temple or a Stable of the city has none.

We must improve all hills and build the 3 buildings to their points where they have maxa OF once the last city finishes its university.

 

[kevtrev]

That's clever, strange that I've never seen it before... always something new to learn about Civ.

 

[Todelotti]

GA started and switched to Bureau, Caste and Pacifism. BPT did change from 239 to 341, cool!

Now the city screen and resource trade screen (taken after GA start and civics change):

 

[Todelotti]

If you can get Giggles on pleased, we probably even can bribe him to Caste, then he can't whip units when we declare war .

Will probably be difficult to bring him to pleased. After the civics change the relationship dropped from cautious to annoyed.

you need more catapults

This is something I have no feeling for, how to balance between catapults and attacking units (elephants etc.). Is there some rule that applies in most cases well, like 1 cat per 2 units or 1:1 or 2:1 or something like that?

Logistically, maybe it makes most sense to attack the NE city first, before heading into Giggles' core. Does he only have one city over there, while the rest if N and NW?

Yes, that's what I thought as well to remove Giggles' close NE city first so he won't stab me in the back when I move to his core. Yes, that city is the only one east from me. All others are north and north-west.

You may want to park some warriors or archers in the south to prevent barbs spawning.

I think there are 1 or 2 I can move from Nidaros/Uppsala to the south. Will do that.

Btw, if you have next to no hammers in the NE city, you can fasten up the building of it by whipping something with max overflow into the NE.

Yeah, I thought of whipping but on the other hand Seraiel and kevtrev said I should let the scientist cities grow as large as possible for the Golden Age to get a lot of specialists. However, on the other hand again, National Epic would increase the GS birth rate. I'm not sure what to do with that NE.

 

[elitetroops]

We must bring at least 3 buildings to max OF. Once building has maxOF don't whip but build thenext building 'til it has max OF. Cotinue this with the 3rd building, once that has also max OF, whil all 3 buildings on 1 turn and queue them in the order from small to large. The OF from each building then adds on another, so when queuing Oxford, there is mega huge OF.

What? Whip them all in 1 turn? Do they all finish on the same turn? I've usually whipped consecutive turns.

 

[Pangaea]

Now when you're in a golden age you should work as many specialists as possible in cities that can generate a great person at some point during the game. The capital is probably fine as you want to work cottages there, but you can work many more in Uppsala, Haithabu and Birka - though you may want to keep producing troops in the HE city rather than max out specialists. If the capital will still get the GS out before the other cities when they are working more specialists, then that is fine, and once Nidaros produces a GS, you can stop working scientists there and focus more on growth. Don't worry too much about going over the health cap.

How many catapults do you have now, and how many attackers? Looks like there is lots of overflow in HE city, so you can probably get out two fast catas there if you change from the elephant. You're bound to lose some catas when attacking cities, so it's good to have loads of them, and keep producing more and send them to the front.

 

[Todelotti]

Press release:

The city government of Tlatelolco is proud to announce that their city has been renamed to "Monty's Grave" as a memorial to the lion-hearted leader Montezuma who fought his last battle in the city. The city government and their citizens decided to do so because no Viking was able to pronounce and memorize the old city name and they were fed up to be called "that city at the west cape".

 

[Seraiel]

So, first you got to learn, is, that there are 2 main reasons to run Golden Ages, except that one wants to switch Civics without revolution.

1. Get a lot more GPs in only little time.
2. Use the extra production to build troops or key buildings.

Our focus this time is more 1 than 2, because we decided dor a Spacerace, those need as much research as possible, conquering the world happens only otw. and with as little teoops as needed.

This means, that you must micro all your cities. Give the Corn back to your capital, work it, and work so many Scientists as possible. You don't need to work those Cottages atm.
Then, do the same with the NE city, except, you should continue working the Wine because it gives 2 .
At last, micro Sheep / Crabs to work as many Merchants as possible. Remember: The Golden Age lasts only 8T, so you can starve cities to hire more specialists, be aware though, no city shall lose pop.

Also micro your other cities. Silver Crabs should work the green hill instead of the village, Momty's grave should work the Iron instead of Gold, once the city grows, it can again work the Gold.
The most NW city should work 2 Artists and produce 1T of culture, then you get an instant borderpop. Don't forget to re-assign the Artists to the coast 1T later again.

Set yourself a timet (Alt +M) of 7T, so you get notified when the last turn of the GA is. Then, you must switch your civics back to Slavery and OR, don't forget this!

For War, you should have 20 Elephants and 10 Catapults. Build 4 Catapults so you have 8 and declare war, should be enough for the first city. Then the GA ends, and you simply whip what you miss to the 20/10.

Research Paper and continue with Education. Once you get the GS from the capital, bulb half of Edu, but continue to work thw Specialists 'til the end of the GA, we want another GS from that city. Should Sheep / Clams not finish the GM before the End of the Golden Age, it's ok, we'll have another GA soon with the GPs from the NE-city and where ever we can easily produce another GP (next GA needs 2 different GPs) .

Play slowly and read this post as often as necessary, those are very many moves in short tone.

 

[Seraiel]

You should now be able to play the whole GA, stop again if something important happens, otherwise, stop at the 1st normal turn again so we can micro the cities and decide which cities can be whipped how often.