Improving on Monarch level

[Todelotti]

3 turns in Golden Age are over. But 2 questions in between:

- Regarding the resource trade: BurgerKing is not willing to trade Horses for Copper. He wants Copper+Fish. I don't know if that's worth it. I wouldn't do because it's my only Fish resource and I would lose health. One thing perhaps to consider: The location of horses is problematic. Giggles has one horse resource but it's directly on BurgerKing's border. Even if we capture Sumeria it's questionable if we can hold that tile against Holy Rome culture pressure. Mansa has no horses. Ramesses one. Zara has two horse tiles but they are located on islands and he doesn't even have built pastures on them. I guess we could try to trade elephants (plus Copper or something maybe) with BurgerKing once we have won the Gilgamesh Ivory.

- More important: Barb trouble! I was just moving a warrior for fogbusting into the tundra as Pangaea suggested when a Sword and an Archer appeared there. Also a Barb Galley at the coast of Tenochtitlan, see screenshot. How should I react? Move 1 or 2 elephants from Nidaros towards tundra? Against the Galley I have no ships and they might unload 2 units just in front of the city which worries me a bit especially because I cannot whip defenders during the Golden Age since I'm not in Slavery.

(The screenshot also contains some scout spy results about Giggles' east city: Vu = Vulture, Sw = Sword, HA = Horse Archer, Ar = Archer, Ch = Chariot).

 

[Seraiel]

Take 3 Elephants. We don't want that Swords to succeed because of a lucky roll.

 

[Seraiel]

Trade Copper and Sheep. Trade Stone instead of other sheep to ramesses..

 

[kevtrev]

Trade Copper and Sheep. Trade Stone instead of other sheep to ramesses..

But isn't he using the stone to build Moai? Or does he have multiple sources?

Regarding the barb galley: it won't unload units, but it will pillage your coastal food tiles. You need a trireme to kill the galley and a few units fogbusting the S coast so no more spawn.

 

[Pangaea]

Like Kev says, the barb galley won't unload troops, they don't have troops on board. It will pillage your seafood though, unless they happen to be located in ocean tiles, because galleys can't travel in the ocean. If you have a galley on a coastal tile and let the barb galley attack it, you will have winning odds (if the barb galley doesn't have promotions yet) due to +10% coastal tile defence. But it's not a sure thing, so obviously a trireme is safer.

Was going to suggest trading away copper too, since you already have iron and could use the extra 3 GPT. Always try to get the extra gold of the AIs, including by renegotiating resource trades. If you for instance get 1 GPT for a sheep, and the AI have 2 more GPT available, cancel the sheep deal and try to get 3 GPT for it. Sometimes it doesn't work and after you cancel it the AI has 0 GPT available, but it usually bumps back up again a few turns later, so keep watching the trade screen every single turn.

 

[Seraiel]

But isn't he using the stone to build Moai? Or does he have multiple sources?

He has 1* Stone from himself and 1* Stone from Monty.

 

[Todelotti]

Hm, maybe I messed up the trades (already the turn ago):

- I have Stone for 2 GPT with Mansa (the deal is only 1 turn old, can't cancel)
- Iron for 4 GPT with Ramesses (only 1 turn old, can't cancel)
- Sheep for Dye with Ramesses (old, can cancel)

And then I have trades with BurgerKing himself (which are both old and can be cancelled):

- Corn for Pig
- Crabs for 3 GPT

Would it be an option to cancel for example Crabs for 3 GPT and then offer Copper+Crabs for BurgerKing's Horses? What are the diplomatic consequences of cancelling a deal? Will he be angry and does the anger disappear again if I offer the new trade?

BTW, what are the rules when I actually can cancel a trade? Is it something like after 10 turns...?

Here is my current trade screen:

 

[Seraiel]

Oh, you didn't conduct the trades like I said . Now you need to wait 9 further turns 'til you can renegotiate new ones. A trade lasts 10T or as long as it's not cancelled. You don't get any negative diplo for cancelling, only positive diplo for 20 resource-turns iirc.

If you got the crabs twice, trade them with the Copper. If you only have 1 times crabs, get them back, I thought you already had hm problems.

 

[Todelotti]

Like Kev says, the barb galley won't unload troops, they don't have troops on board. It will pillage your seafood though.

OK, that will give me some time at least to schedule a Trireme in Tenochtitlan. There is no immediate seafood for that city and there is also a Gilgamesh work boat floating around. Maybe the Barbs go after that first.

Oh, you didn't conduct the trades like I said . Now you need to wait 9 further turns 'til you can renegotiate new ones. A trade lasts 10T or as long as it's not cancelled. You don't get any negative diplo for cancelling, only positive diplo for 20 resource-turns iirc.

If you got the crabs twice, trade them with the Copper. If you only have 1 times crabs, get them back, I thought you already had hm problems.

But at least I tried your trades! Your initial proposal didn't work because I had already traded the Dye with Ramesses for Sheep and I couldn't cancel that deal until this turn. So I made a deal with Mansa instead to get something for the Stone.

Nevermind, I have 2 Crabs, cancelled now Crabs for 3 GPT and negotiated the new deal Horse for Copper+Crabs. I think you must be satisfied now (at least a little bit).

Now, the question regarding war dec against Giggles:

I have 8 catapults now (another one finishes next turn), 2 axes (including supermedic) and 11 elephants. However 3 of them are moving now towards south to deal with the Barbs. I'm moving the main stack to Haithabu, i.e. closer to Giggles east city. So, 8 elephants, 2 axes and 9 catapults could attack Giggles east city in about 3 or 4 turns. Do we want to do that or wait until the 3 Jumbos have cleared the barbs?

What about bribes btw? It would be possible to bribe Zara against Giggles or BurgerKing. However he wants a really HUGE bunch of techs for it and he probably won't provide any contribution to the war because he's just too far away.

 

[Seraiel]

That's actually the perfect case, an AI that doesn't get any cities but still sucks up the bribes. You could also need better relations with both. If I were you, I'd attack with your 10 offensive units + the 9 catapults and beibe in Zara and BK after you have declared war. When you are at war, Giggles powerrating will take a huge hit, because your milutary gets substracted from his. Bribe the cheaper AI in war afterwards, and his troops will get substracted too, making the last bribe really cheap.

Pay high attention to if Giggles geta Longbows. Once he had those, you better have won or you'll need more troops.

Also produce 2 HAs that you promote to Flanking and the Sentry to see better.

 

[Seraiel]

P. S.: You can direct someone's troops to go for a specific city when talking to them while sharing war. Make sure that you sebd BK and Zara to the weakest possible city of Giggles, so that should the conquer something, that it's gonna be as bad as possible.

 

[Pangaea]

BTW, what are the rules when I actually can cancel a trade? Is it something like after 10 turns...?

Already answered really, but yes, it's 10 turns. If you click on ACTIVE in the trade screen, you can see more details. If a trade has a turn counter behind it, it can't be cancelled until those turns have elapsed. If there is no turn counter, the deal can be cancelled.

Sounds like you have a nice stack ready for war, so you should be fine to declare once the GA is over. Then keep producing more troops. If this game is indeed to go to space, then you don't want spamming units everywhere all the time, because you need to focus on the economy too. But you DO want a lot more land, basically close to the domination limit, and then use all that land to power your economy towards space. To get all that land, however, you need military units, so at this point it's fine to produce more I'd say.

Hopefully Giggles won't get longbows for a while. You can still take him if he does, but you will lose more catapults.

 

[kevtrev]

P. S.: You can direct someone's troops to go for a specific city when talking to them while sharing war. Make sure that you sebd BK and Zara to the weakest possible city of Giggles, so that should the conquer something, that it's gonna be as bad as possible.

You can?

 

[Seraiel]

You can?

Trust me .

 

[rah]

I think he trusts you but want you to tell him how to do it.

 

[Pangaea]

It's similar to when you direct a vassal's research. Discuss something else, or some such wording, and then "Why don't you attack...". Then you get a list of cities.

Can't recall if this is available for non-vassals too, but if Seraiel says that, it's probably true

 

[Seraiel]

It's similar to when you direct a vassal's research. Discuss something else, or some such wording, and then "Why don't you attack...". Then you get a list of cities.

Can't recall if this is available for non-vassals too, but if Seraiel says that, it's probably true

It's available for everyone you share war with.

 

[rah]

Ah, since most of our MP games are no vassal, no tech trading we aren't chatting with the AI's often. But it would be good info to know.

The bigger question that I would have is if you direct them to attack a city, do they actually do it?

 

[Seraiel]

Ah, since most of our MP games are no vassal, no tech trading we aren't chatting with the AI's often. But it would be good info to know.

The bigger question that I would have is if you direct them to attack a city, do they actually do it?

Yes, they do. They won't go away to another city if they're already camping one, but if one directs them early and ever turn, they really go into that direction. Ever turn is necessary, because AI stacks lose their complete commands when i.e. Being deterred by 1 unit. That's actually also helpful info if oneself fights a defensive war and just needs 2 more turns to move the troops in the right city.
Use a warrior and park him next to the stack but away from the city, and you not seldomly will see the complete SoD move to fight that warrior .

 

[rah]

Good to know. I'm playing a few more SP games now and but still more used to fighting human opponents and needless to say, the AI reacts considerably differently. I'm not an expert at all the ways to bait them. Some but definitely not all.