Improving on Monarch level

[Seraiel]

BK doesn't DoW you, because after you gifted him the techs, Montezuma didn't have any tech left with which he could have payed for the bribe, so you see gifting techs alsi has its advantages .

Early diplomacy is very important, because 1. Early bribes are cheaper and 2. If there's something that can screw you, it's an early war.
The more you raise the difficulty, the more agressive the AIs get, and the harder it is to have techs one can gift them. Gifting actually really isn' so bad in the beginning, because this also means that you can isolate 1 of 2 targets by giving them nothing. In my games, I always try to get the +4 bonus asap, only not from that neighbour I wanna attack.
If others are pleased to you, not only the chance that they go to war against you is much smaller, but you also get more bribe-options from some and once someone os friendly, he's willing to trade monopoly techs with you. It's very important to have 1 or 2 friends in the round.

 

[Todelotti]

Does building a Settler for the Gold still have a high priority? Should I really try to squeeze in a city between Mansa and Gilgamesh (see screenshot). I have to put a Settler into production now in Haithabu (and stop a catapult production) if I should try getting the Gold. Mansa will push borders within the next turns, probably before I can reach a spot there with my Settler, so there will be even less tiles available for settling. If you ask me: No! It just increases border tension trouble (I already have -1 border tension penalty with Giggles) and army first now!

 

[Seraiel]

Military is important, but you still need a Settler, because you will raze montes first city to refound it 1 NW of where it is.

 

[Todelotti]

Then he has researched too much into it already. Maybe if you caught it earlier you could have got Monarchy for Construction, or even CoL.

Yes, earlier trade would have been possible but Seraiel suggested to not trade too much with Mansa because he is worst enemy of Giggles and Charlemagne and I had already 3 tech trades with him. But I have new trade options with Mansa now (see one of my next posts) and we can reevaluate if I should trade or not.

I'm not sure if you tried both approaches, bot letting him attack and you taking the initiative (but I assume you did?), but I would certainly think you're better off letting him attack first here.

Yes, I tried both approaches. In my final run I stayed in the city and waited for Monty's attack. Still lost an axe (I believe that was simply very bad combat luck) and later another axe because I had to chase a little stack that was moving into my territory towards the Ivory or even capital. I didn't want to risk anything.

I played a quick 15-turn shadow from your turn 92 (675 BC) save to turn 107 (200 BC). Check it out if you want to compare the Rep and PS routes...

It's interesting! I have played now til capturing Monty's first city where you also stopped and I needed 3 turns more than you. Also I'm still 2 turns away from the GS while you already had one in your game. So, probably for this war phase your approach (and your level of play of course) is clearly better. But I want to stick with REP and the longer game plan now that Seraiel suggested as the better way to learn more thats's also applicable for the higher difficulties.

What is the lone warrior in the tundra doing in your game? Did you place it there as fogbuster against possible barb threats? I will post my current game status next and upload a new game save, so you can look at the details if you like.

 

[Todelotti]

Turn 110 - 125 BC

- Gifted 3 techs to Charlemagne and 2 techs to Gilgamesh
- Gifted Construction to Mansa when he had only 1 turn remaining to finish Construction
- The last leader, Zara Yaqob, met. He is very far away in the east. Agreed about open borders with him and gifted him a tech.
- Gilgamesh converted to Buddhism
- Got a Great General and attached it to the Axeman that was already promoted with Combat 1, Shock and Medic 1.
- War progress: Uppsala defended. I have elephants now. I attacked Monty's copper city, captured and razed it. Monty lost a lot of units. My losses are moderate (2 axes if I don't miscount).
- Research progress: HBR finished and after that Currency which has been finished this turn as well.
- 2 turns to Great Scientist in Capital
- 1 turn to Settler in Haithabu

Questions now:

- Finishing Currency opened up some new trade options with Mansa. The following trades would be possible:
-- Monarchy for Currency
-- Code of Laws for Currency+HBR
-- Calendar for Currency
-- Metal Casting for Currency+HBR (looks most attractive in terms of beaker exchange, right?)
There are no trade options with anyone else.

- How do I proceed with my own research? Mansa is researching Aesthetics right now and had researched Calendar before. I guess it depends on what we trade with Mansa. If we want to avoid researching something that Mansa already has I see Theology or Compass as options. Or if we trade MC then maybe Machinery. Or if we trade for CoL then Civil Service.

- Questions about Catapult promotions: When I attacked Monty's city I promoted the cats to City Raider and not to Barrage. Was that the right choice?

- Great Scientist finished in 2 turns. What to do with him? Academy, light bulbing a tech or Golden Age? I would go Academy normally.

- @Seraiel: The new city should really go 1NW of Monty's copper? There is no food resource. You want to feed it by lighthouse improved coastal tiles alone, right?

- My axe that razed the city is alone on that tile and could be attacked by Mony's units (see attached screen shot). Not sure if I should try to defend him with a part of my main stack or better leave the main stack together and sacrifice the axe. If Monty should attack he will probably lose the attacking unit next turn when I can counterattack with my main stack.

- Monty is accepting a 10 turn peace treaty and would put 50 Gold and 1 GPT on top. Should we accept or proceed with the war? Note that he is moving a Settler together with a 3 unit stack towards south-east atm (possibly towards the tundra deer) and he will probably succeed in founding a new city if we make peace now.

 

[Seraiel]

Don't conduct peace, you want to have the cities of Monty and wipe him of the map! Look of anybody is pleased to him, if not, you can conduct a cease-fire to not lose the Axeman, if so, simply continue the war, losing an Axe is worth less than -1 diplo from having declared war on one's friend. Best is probably to guard the Axe with 1 or 2 healthy units. When AI consideres attacking a unit, it calculates with the strength of all units on that tile, so if there are 3 units, it's very unlikely that those will get attacked.

Very unfortunate, that you attached your first GG to a unit having more than C1 and Medic promotions. Like this, your Medic could easily be chosen as the top-defender of the stack, which makes it likely that he'll die. Did you at least attach the GG when he was the only unit on thw tile, so for the full 20 XP and can be promoted to Medic 3 + Champion? Or did you attach him and the XP hot diverted to all units? The last again would be very bad.

Regarding the city 1NW of the copper: That city would get its food from so called “lighthouse-lakes“ . Thise are feshwater lakes that give 3 with having a lighthouse in the city.

Academy for capital is fine.

CR for Catapults was also the right decision.

Research imho should go CS after you have traded for CoL. Don't give him both techs for it though, you can add a little Gold once you got Currency. It'd be nice to get something extra for HBR, like Calendar i.e. You don't need Monarchy, because you are running REP which is better than HR. Research a few turns in Calendar to lower the beakers needed, then trade HBR for it.
I believe there is no way but to piss off most civs by trading with Mansa, he just has too many valuable techs. Try anyhow, if you can get someone to fight against Monty with you, then that civ will lose Mansa as a WE and you get dipli from shared war on top.

Trading for MC to reaearch Machinery would be bad, because AI always techs Machinery early. CS howevet gives you a buro capital + it unlocks the next tech on the way to Liberalism (Paper) .

Someone else plz check the save and give advice on it (Worker management, how do the cities look etc.) , because I still can't because of having no PC for a week still.

TY.

 

[kevtrev]

- Finishing Currency opened up some new trade options with Mansa. The following trades would be possible:
-- Monarchy for Currency
-- Code of Laws for Currency+HBR
-- Calendar for Currency
-- Metal Casting for Currency+HBR (looks most attractive in terms of beaker exchange, right?)
There are no trade options with anyone else.

- How do I proceed with my own research? Mansa is researching Aesthetics right now and had researched Calendar before. I guess it depends on what we trade with Mansa. If we want to avoid researching something that Mansa already has I see Theology or Compass as options. Or if we trade MC then maybe Machinery. Or if we trade for CoL then Civil Service.

- Questions about Catapult promotions: When I attacked Monty's city I promoted the cats to City Raider and not to Barrage. Was that the right choice?

- Great Scientist finished in 2 turns. What to do with him? Academy, light bulbing a tech or Golden Age? I would go Academy normally.

- @Seraiel: The new city should really go 1NW of Monty's copper? There is no food resource. You want to feed it by lighthouse improved coastal tiles alone, right?

- My axe that razed the city is alone on that tile and could be attacked by Mony's units (see attached screen shot). Not sure if I should try to defend him with a part of my main stack or better leave the main stack together and sacrifice the axe. If Monty should attack he will probably lose the attacking unit next turn when I can counterattack with my main stack.

- Monty is accepting a 10 turn peace treaty and would put 50 Gold and 1 GPT on top. Should we accept or proceed with the war? Note that he is moving a Settler together with a 3 unit stack towards south-east atm (possibly towards the tundra deer) and he will probably succeed in founding a new city if we make peace now.

-Don't trade currency yet, better to wait until you can get more for it through multiple trades to several AI. You can probably do HBR for CoL after another turn's research.

-Your own research should go CoL -> CS so you can run the civic Bureaucracy

-CR promo is correct

-GS should definitely be used for an Academy in the cap. When that's done, turn on research again.

-1NW of copper has no freshwater lakes and is not a good city. If you want a city that gets the copper, the options are: 1N of copper and use sheep or 2S1W of copper and use crabs. The second option almost definitely clashes with Monty's hidden southern city.

-Yes your axe will die but I can't see how you can defend him

-No peace for Monty

Other things I noticed from the save:

-You're working 2 citizens in Uppsala... not sure I'd do the same

-Something went wrong with your Great General. You should only promote 1 unit and make him a Medic III, not promote multiple units who share the 20 XP.

-War is going well

 

[Pangaea]

Sounds like the GG got a little messed up. When you attack a GG, it will give 20 XP to the units in the tile he is standing on. If there is one unit there, you can promote it to a super medic. If there are 10 units, it's basically a complete waste (but has its use in special circumstances I suppose). If you could redo that so you get a super medic, that would be good. You have wounded units now, and being able to heal them all in a turn or two would be beneficial. The way to do that is to use a fresh 3XP or 5XP unit, or to attach him to a unit that has already been in combat and has got Combat 1, and preferably also Medic 1. Nothing else. Unless you've have taken Medic 2, obviously. With a super medic you want to get him Medic 3, and if possible another movement point too (at least that is what I often choose).

Looks like the war is going well.

Hopefully Monty settles a good city for you next. Just make sure you don't conquer it instantly, because cities that haven't yet grown to size 2 will get auto-razed. It can be size 1 when you capture it, but it MUST have been at size 2 or more at some point in its life, otherwise it gets razed. Unless you use the No City Razing option, which most don't use.

Don't settle for peace. You want to kill him off entirely. With some more offensive units in addition to the catas you already have, that should very much be doable here. Best of luck

Oh yes, as the others have said, go for Civil Service next. Buro is fantastic.

 

[Seraiel]

No freshwater lakes? Damn, I coildn't see that properly on the screens, only saw some water tiles giving 2 and therefore suspected it. If no Lighthouse-lakes, I would not found a city there at all, buz
T would found one at the crabs in the south.

Trading Currency with Mansa is np, of he's the WE of all others, he cannot trade it away anyhow. On top, for what should he trade it, with having basically all techs then?

 

[Seraiel]

Just thought of something: Don't trade HBR against Calendar like I proposed. Research some turns into Aesthetics and trade HBR against it with Mansa. Then fo full Speed for Literature and sell it to the civs that got money, it's only a small tech so ideal for this. This also allows you to directly build the HE and the NE which is more valuable than all other opportunities.

We must discuss if goung Music afterwards makes sense.

 

[Todelotti]

Very unfortunate, that you attached your first GG to a unit having more than C1 and Medic promotions. Like this, your Medic could easily be chosen as the top-defender of the stack, which makes it likely that he'll die. Did you at least attach the GG when he was the only unit on thw tile, so for the full 20 XP and can be promoted to Medic 3 + Champion? Or did you attach him and the XP hot diverted to all units? The last again would be very bad.

OK, then I did EVERYTHING wrong that I can do wrong with the GG as kev and Pangaea said as well I'll go back 3 or 4 turns and replay. I could then also attach the GG to a war elephant. Is that better? (Maybe not, because the first possible upgrade would be a helicopter, iirc?) Problem is that the only unit with Medic 1 is this axe that already has the shock promotion. Basically my options would be:

- Attach GG to an elephant with Combat 1
- Attach GG to an axe with Combat 1, Shock and Medic 1 (that's what I did but on a tile with at least 10 units more)
- Attach GG to an axe with Combat 1 and Shock

I understand (I hope), whatever I do I have to move the GG and the unit I want to attach it to onto an empty tile and then attach.

-You're working 2 citizens in Uppsala... not sure I'd do the same

Hm, I decided to do that because the available tiles don't look great. They are all unimproved, have only 2 food or less, I still have 10 turns whip anger and I could only grow 1 size more (which I will do in 3 turns even with working 2 citizens) to reach happy cap. I thought, then better the 6 beakers from REP more.

No freshwater lakes? Damn, I coildn't see that properly on the screens, only saw some water tiles giving 2 and therefore suspected it. If no Lighthouse-lakes, I would not found a city there at all, buz
T would found one at the crabs in the south.

The 2 food came from Monty having a lighthouse for the coastal tiles, I guess. But we still want to raze the copper city, right? I could also reconsider this when I replay now. But the copper city looks really poorly located as kevtrev already said. If we go for south crabs we probably have to capture Monty's invisible south city first. It may even be on a good tile (1NW of crabs) so that we can keep the city. I can also delay the Settler before I replay and we decide later if we have to found a new city or if Monty's choices (except copper city) have been fine.

 

[Pangaea]

Don't put the GG on a war elephant. You want the supermedic to be a weak unit so it has a very low chance of becoming a defender if the stack is attacked. This is why the usual choice for a super medic is a chariot or even a scout/explorer. Both these have 2 moves by default, which is also beneficial. In this case, an axe would probably be best. That way you may also allow yourself to attack with him at badly wounded units. Main thing for a super medic is to get him Combat 1 and Medic 1 through 3.

 

[Todelotti]

If I have Combat 1 and Medic 1, 2 and 3 for the GG axe already which promotion do I select after that (see screenshot)? Seraiel mentioned "Champion" above, but I can't find such a promotion. Morale seems to make sense (1+ movement). March (heels while moving) would only heel the GG himself, not the units that are moving with him, so less useful, right? What about Tactics (+30% withdrawal chance) which would make the GG safer, wouldn't it? Leadership (+100% combat experience) isn't useful, I guess, because we don't want to let the GG fight.

 

[Seraiel]

I ment leadership, sry. I always use my GGs in 98% fights. With leadership that gives 4 xp! Tactics is only of minor use, because it's 30% when you lose, ao i.e. only 15% chance if you would fight a 50% battle.
Morale is good, but atm. you don't need it. Better to get more Xp and also get more GG-points through that. March is very useful when your whole army has it. It doesn't make sense for 1 unit.

 

[kevtrev]

I go for either Leadership or Morale. Leadership you use as Sera says, attacking with 98%+ odds for the 4 XP. Morale is good when you have a 2-move army (like HAs) and your medic is a 1-move unit. Using a weak unit is good because it won't defend (and die) if the stack gets attacked. Plus a GG gets free promotions. If you have a warrior with C1, use that.

 

[Seraiel]

Good idea with taking a Warrior to get a free upgrade to an Axe.

 

[Todelotti]

A diplomatic challenge again (at least for me):

BurgerKing just asked to stop trading with his worst enemy Mansa. I refused. Absolutely not sure if that was right, but I thought good relationships with Mansa are crucial at the moment. Of course I've got a -1 now with BK ("you refused to stop trading with our WE").

I've made a screenshot of my relationships with BurgerKing, Mansa and also with Giggles because those are not really good either and he's my closest neighbour. Seraiel, can you read the small letters in the screenshot on your handy? Otherwise I write it out here (if you need those details at all to judge that declining was a bad move )

 

[Seraiel]

Keeping Mansa as a friend is mandatory this round, you made the right decision.

Relations lok good imho. You could think about getting Giggles to pleased by gifting him a tech. Depends on if you'll ho against him next or if you prefer Mansa the weakling.

 

[Seraiel]

This could develop to a nice Spacerace, if you kill Giggles and BurgerKing, while keeping Mansa and Zara as your friends .

Domination ofc. will be far easier, your choice.

 

[Todelotti]

If you have a warrior with C1, use that.

I did that finally. This warrior has now C1, Medic 1,2,3 and Leadership and already managed one little fight. (However not yet upgraded because he was all the time in foreign territory. He must be in home territory to upgrade him, right?)

You could think about getting Giggles to pleased by gifting him a tech. Depends on if you'll ho against him next or if you prefer Mansa the weakling.

Giggles next. Mansa is such a friendly guy...

This could develop to a nice Spacerace, if you kill Giggles and BurgerKing, while keeping Mansa and Zara as your friends .

Domination ofc. will be far easier, your choice.

Don't know yet. But I'm inclined to try the space race for the change because all my last games were domination/conquest.

Turn 115 - 1 AD

- I replayed from turn 107 to create the better GG unit as discussed
- Razed Monty's copper city again
- Also captured his hidden south city. It was on the silver tile, had no buildings and I decided to raze it. (If that was bad I can go back, I made a save before I attacked the last defender in the city.)
- Captured 2 workers. (1 of them was Monty's Settler from turn 110.)
- Traded Currency (+little gold) for CoL with Mansa.
- Traded CoL (+little gold) for Monarchy with Charlemagne (I wanted Monarchy for the Wine tile)
- Traded HBR (+few turns research) for Aesthetics with Mansa
- Invited Zara into the war with Monty. He did for CoL and gave me even some gold on top. +1 mutual war bonus.
- I must have overlooked that Mansa researched Philosophy earlier (or he bulbed it). Philosophy popped up in his trade list after I got CoL from him.
- Academy built in Capital.
- Building Winery at Uppsala.

Questions:

- Mansa is researching Literature right now. He finishes it in 2 turns. Shall we still go for Literature? Atm I have CS in the research queue. (6 turns to go, or a bit more because I cannot hold 100% research slider til the end.) However, I cannot trade anything for Literature with Mansa before CS. So, it might still be better to research Literature ourselves.

- Settler is finished and already moved into the little north elephant stack. Where to put the new city (see screenshot)? I'd say 1NW of south crabs to have crabs and silver in first ring and later the cow in the second ring.

- Happiness problems in Uppsala (1 citizen doesn't work) because remaining Azteks (that have been pressed into the city earlier by Monty culture) want to join their motherland and due to war weariness. Note that I have 0 culture in Uppsala (no Monument, no Lib, wrong religion). I could bring a Jewish missionary to Uppsala to provide a little culture or build something for it. Or sit and wait. Also the Winery will help to fix the problem in 3 turns by adding +1 happiness.