Improving on Monarch level

[Seraiel]

The screen looks really good, I'm impressed . Unfortunately I cannot see how much BPT you're making, is that a 130 or 170?

The location you chose for the southern Crabs silver vity is good. It will never work the Cows because that's the only aource of food for Monty's capital, so I thought about settling it 1E, but then I looked very close and found that both cities have about the same amount of good tiles, making the spot with instant silver the better choice.
Don't forget to send a Worker to improve the Silver, and if I remember that right, the fastest WB can come from the city in the east. You can let the Crab Silver city produce a Granary from T1.

Uppsala having no culture is np, all the times the city needa to work are in the inner Ring. Does that city already have a Library? It'd be nice to hire some Scientists in it to increase research and for another GS.

Rhe hardest decision currently is the path of research. As you got Aesthetics through trade and also will have the possibility to get Literature an top, Music becomes a desirable tech. Normally I'd always go for CS first, but getting both pre-techs actually is an invitation. I'd propose that you research drams in the same time rhat Mansa techs Literature, then trade it Nd go full speed to Music.
You must be the first to reach Music, otherwise the tech is almost completely worthless, so build Wealth if you otherwise could not run 100% research so you get it before Mansa.
Drams is a good tech to trade as AI usually techs it very late and it speeds up teching Music by 20%, as it's pre-requisite.

You btw. couldn't see Philo from Mansa because you needed CoL a it's onr of two techs that unlock Philo.
Mansa having Philo us great, if you can produce enough research to trade it for Music or if Mansa goes Music too, for CS.
Plz post pictures of all cities once you got Literature, so we can choose good sites for the HE and the NE. Also turn on resource bubbles plz.

 

[Todelotti]

...how much BPT you're making, is that a 130 or 170?

On that screen it was 132 BPT, now it's 153 (at 100% research slider).

...the fastest WB can come from the city in the east. You can let the Crab Silver city produce a Granary from T1.

Problem was there is no short path for the work boat from this east city (Birka) to the new city because the south-west route is blocked by ice. Only way for the WB would be to navigate around the whole continent. I've chopped the WB in the new city now. And now building/chopping a Granary.

Uppsala... Does that city already have a Library? It'd be nice to hire some Scientists in it to increase research and for another GS.

Library is whipped now. After growing 1 size more I can hire 1 or 2 scientists. In the capital I have 2 scientists running as well. Not sure if that was a good idea but somehow it was possible to work all cottages (in capital and helper city) and run the 2 scientists at the same time.

Rhe hardest decision currently is the path of research. As you got Aesthetics through trade and also will have the possibility to get Literature an top, Music becomes a desirable tech. Normally I'd always go for CS first, but getting both pre-techs actually is an invitation. I'd propose that you research drams in the same time rhat Mansa techs Literature, then trade it Nd go full speed to Music.
You must be the first to reach Music, otherwise the tech is almost completely worthless, so build Wealth if you otherwise could not run 100% research so you get it before Mansa.
Drams is a good tech to trade as AI usually techs it very late and it speeds up teching Music by 20%, as it's pre-requisite.

It worked! I have Music and the free Great Artist now. Mansa wasn't going for Music after Literature but for CS.

Plz post pictures of all cities once you got Literature, so we can choose good sites for the HE and the NE

Will do that tomorrow.


Turn 124 - 225 AD

- 5th city (Bjorgvin) founded between crabs and silver. Work boat chopped and crabs improved. Silver improved as well. City connected to city network.
- War progress: Captured another worker. 2 of Monty's units destroyed in the field. My main stack is now in front of Monty's capital Tenochtitlan and bombarding down city defenses.
- Research: Researched Drama. Traded Drama for Literature with Mansa. Then researched Music and finished this turn. I was the first one who got Music, so I have the free Great Artist.
- Built a missionary in Haithabu and spread Judaism in Uppsala in order to get the 25% production bonus from OR for buidings and to push borders.

Questions:

- Tech trade options with Mansa:
-- Metal Casting+50 Gold for Music
-- He doesn't trade Philo for Music. I probably have to put a few turns into Philo to get the trade in. Shall I do that?

- How do I proceed with my own research? Mansa is researching CS right now and will finish in 10 turns. (I would also need 10 turns for CS if I research it myself. I've already put a few turns into CS some turns ago before we went Drama->Music.)

- What to do with the Great Artist? Bulb (Theology? I think, no, Zara and BurgerKing already have Theo (but red and not willing to trade yet))? Golden Age? Culture Bomb? Wait for a better bulb?

- A little question about chopping: If I want to chop a forest that has exactly the same distance to 2 cities is there a way to select the city where the hammers will go to? On the attached screenshot for example there is a worker 1W of the wine. Uppsala and Bjorgvin have the same distance to that worker. The chop symbol says "30 hammers to Uppsala". But I'd rather like to have them in Bjorgvin. Can I switch the target somehow?

- And a combat question: Do you normally bombard down city defenses to 0% (or almost 0%) before you attack a city? Tenochtitlan has a wall and I started with 50% defense. I'm now at 18% which took however 2 turns. My stack has 4 cats. With the walls that means -4% city defense per cat and per turn. I didn't promote a cat with Bombardement (should I have done that?) because I thought City Raider or Barrage promotions are more valuable. I'm planning to bombard another turn, then the remaining city defense will be only 2%. And the turn after that I would attack, 1,2 ... cats first, then elephants and axes. The downside of this procedure is that Monty has 3 turns more time to bring in units into the city or to whip defenders. It might have been better to attack earlier against a higher city defense and with worse combat odds, hence higher risk to lose a unit, but also against fewer defenders. Are there some rules of thumb what's the best way?

 

[Seraiel]

You can only assign a chop when it's in the BFC of two cities, then, thw forest will go to the city that has un uncovered that forest in the city scree, so could work it.

Me posting you should pisr screens of all cities had a reason, I wanted to select citiea for the HE and NE to build them asap. Now you've already lost a lot of turns on them.

There is no rules for bombarding or attacking directly. If you anyhow had prompted the cat(s) to accuracy, you could have saved some time. Accuracy is the best promotion whenever you have only few units.

Research should go Compass imho to trade compass + music for CS.

I planned the artist for a golden age once you got buro and need to switch civics. I hoped you'd have also Philo then, but that's only possible if you can trade techs from the other civs so not MM.
Bulbing R
Theo is also attractive, as it might bring you CS with compass added and you get philo for music after putting a few turns of research in it. This imho is the best options if you cannot fet Zara or Giggles to friendly.
We could also steal Theo, that would actually be brilliant, but it takes a longer preparation.

 

[elitetroops]

- And a combat question: Do you normally bombard down city defenses to 0% (or almost 0%) before you attack a city? Tenochtitlan has a wall and I started with 50% defense. I'm now at 18% which took however 2 turns. My stack has 4 cats. With the walls that means -4% city defense per cat and per turn. I didn't promote a cat with Bombardement (should I have done that?) because I thought City Raider or Barrage promotions are more valuable. I'm planning to bombard another turn, then the remaining city defense will be only 2%. And the turn after that I would attack, 1,2 ... cats first, then elephants and axes. The downside of this procedure is that Monty has 3 turns more time to bring in units into the city or to whip defenders. It might have been better to attack earlier against a higher city defense and with worse combat odds, hence higher risk to lose a unit, but also against fewer defenders. Are there some rules of thumb what's the best way?

I hardly ever bombard at all. In a catapult war I expect to lose a couple of cats/city. Suicide cats first, the top defenders get direct damage and the rest collateral. After this you usually have very good odds for mopping up already. I usually only bombard if siege arrives at the city before enough units to take the city are there, or if the stack contains so much siege that I don't plan to attack with all of them. If it's a tough city I might plan for it and have extra siege for bombarding. Later in the game naval and air units can bombard.

As you said, the longer you stand there bombarding, the more defenders he will get. Also, if you spend 3 turns bombarding a walled city to 0%, that's 3 turns less of having that city. 3 turns less of traderoutes and working all the tiles, growth and builds delayed 3 turns and so on. In a longer war, if you save 2-3 turns/city by not bombarding, in the end it can add up to a lot and you finish the war 10-20 turns earlier. Getting the last cities online that much earlier makes a huge difference.

 

[Seraiel]

1. We need to know what techs Ramesses had, so also post a techtrade screen.

2. You can build to get borderpops now. Build in all cities that didn't have a borderpop yet. The cities will automatically stop building culture and proceed with the next thing in the queue once they surpass a culture threshold / borderpop. You get 1t of free production on that turn too, because of a bug, so when borderpopping, you get culture + production on the next thing in the queue.

 

[Todelotti]

Now City screens and tech trading screen from Foreign Advisor. (I'm not sure if you wanted that one or Ramesses' individual trade screen. But there is nothing regarding techs. He doesn't offer anything since a very long time.)

 

[Todelotti]

Me posting you should pisr screens of all cities had a reason, I wanted to select citiea for the HE and NE to build them asap. Now you've already lost a lot of turns on them.

Sorry! I didn't overlook your post but underestimated that building HE and NE had such a high priority. Disaster? Replay?

I hardly ever bombard at all. In a catapult war I expect to lose a couple of cats/city. Suicide cats first, the top defenders get direct damage and the rest collateral. After this you usually have very good odds for mopping up already. I usually only bombard if siege arrives at the city before enough units to take the city are there, or if the stack contains so much siege that I don't plan to attack with all of them. If it's a tough city I might plan for it and have extra siege for bombarding. Later in the game naval and air units can bombard.

As you said, the longer you stand there bombarding, the more defenders he will get. Also, if you spend 3 turns bombarding a walled city to 0%, that's 3 turns less of having that city. 3 turns less of traderoutes and working all the tiles, growth and builds delayed 3 turns and so on. In a longer war, if you save 2-3 turns/city by not bombarding, in the end it can add up to a lot and you finish the war 10-20 turns earlier. Getting the last cities online that much earlier makes a huge difference.

I actually didn't bombard that much in the past either but somehow I thought now that was bad. My idea this time was: If I can capture a city with a minimum of losses or ideally no loss at all (because lost units are lost hammers and to replace it I have to spend hammers in another city that I could otherwise invest in something more productive and useful), then prefer that way, even if it costs a few turns more. Perhaps I have to balance between fastest and safest attack on a case by case basis.

 

[rah]

While I usually choose fastest in that balance (especially when I planned and built extra units that I was intending to lose) their are occasions where I want to take the extra turn(s) to let him get more of his troops into the city where my CR units will have the advantage once the defenses have been eliminated.

 

[Seraiel]

I wrote 1 page of advice. The Tapatalk decides to eat it. I'm not gonna write all of that again from my handy. Someone else plz give advice.

HE = Haitabu
NE = Uppsala
Crab / Sheep = GT

 

[Todelotti]

I wrote 1 page of advice. The Tapatalk decides to eat it. I'm not gonna write all of that again from my handy. Someone else plz give advice.

HE = Haitabu
NE = Uppsala
Crab / Sheep = GT

That's disappointing, I mean the lost text I had selected Haithabu myself for HE (most hammers). What is GT? Globe Theatre for the 3 Artists? I put HE and NE into production now and change research to Compass.

 

[Seraiel]

Tapatalk servers are overloaded, 50% of the time I click on something it just keeps loading forever. I'll re-write that part if I don't forget it, when I get my PC back this week.

 

[Seraiel]

Servers seem better now and noone gave advice yet, so I try again in shorter posts.

He + NE are so important, that you should look for a city for them even before you can build them. I like to think of them as “extra cities“ settled in a good spot. Think about it, they each give +100%, so they double the output of a city, basically like having 2 cities instead of one.

 

[Seraiel]

Regarding the screens:

You're not working the Cows, that's really bad. You should also farm the FP to give the Corn + the Cottage back to your capital. With farming the FP you also get an Irrigation chain. Also: Stone is much stronger than n unimproved Cottage, and you want Hammers from that city, so work it! And chop all Forests in range to build the NE faster.

 

[Seraiel]

Also: Work 2 Scientists in Uppsala. Remember, they are very strong with REP snd Uppsala is going to be the NE city.

GT = Globe Theater. I'd love to have it in a site with even more food, but there is none that you could settle fast.
Alternative is to build some more troops so that you can DoW Giggles directly. This is even better, so once Monty is down and your forces are free, whip more Elephants and Catapults! You can build the theaters and the GT when war against Giggles looks good.

GT gives you a city where you can whip and draft endlessly, it's very powerful when a round lasts long enough.

 

[Seraiel]

At last, I think we need to wait for Ramesses to research something useful. Check this every turn, and should he get something, trade for the techs Mansa also has, so he won't find a reason to trade with Mansa. Don't funk this up ^^.

 

[Todelotti]

Do we want to keep or raze the red-circled city? I think the tile 1E of it would be better to avoid too many ocean tiles. But I don't know if that's worth it to raze the city and spend a Settler.

 

[Seraiel]

I'd keep it because it still got a lot of coastal tiles and you're FIN, + the city is size 5. I'd build MOAI in it to make it even better.

 

[Todelotti]

You're not working the Cows, that's really bad. ... Stone is much stronger than n unimproved Cottage, and you want Hammers from that city, so work it!

I worked Cows and Stone most of the time but since a few turns (basically since the point where I saw that I don't need more war units for Monty) I reconfigured Haithabu to a helper city for Nidaros, i.e. prioritized the overlapping cottages to grow them for the capital. Isn't that one of the most important things to give the capital as many grown cottages as possible when we jump into Bureaucracy? At least this helper city concept has been emphasized many times in my earlier games.

You should also farm the FP to give the Corn + the Cottage back to your capital. With farming the FP you also get an Irrigation chain.

The FP is a TOWN already! Shall I really destroy that and farm the tile? I have the irrigation chain to the corn planned from the lake. 2 more farms are needed (1E and 1NE of copper), both would be workable in Haithabu.

And chop all Forests in range to build the NE faster.

I have done that. NE has a bit more than 50% of the needed hammers invested.

Don't funk this up ^^.

I'll try my best I'm checking the trade screens every turn basically since the beginning.

I'd keep it because it still got a lot of coastal tiles and you're FIN, + the city is size 5. I'd build MOAI in it to make it even better.

OK, kept the city. Granary and Trading Post (lighthouse) survived, so that made this decision even easier. That also means: War is over and Monty dead!

I post a more complete status update tomorrow and then also take a closer look at your immediate War-Against-Giggles plan.

And thank you (again) for your huge effort to support the game (despite the technical barriers you have atm)!

Oh, one question in advance: Compass is finished but Mansa still needs 3 turns for CS so we need something for the research queue before I can trade. Is it an option to research Optics for example and then try to trade Music+Compass+Optics for CS+Philo? I have already invested a few turns into CS earlier which would, maybe, make this trade possible.

 

[Seraiel]

If you got an Irrigation Chain planned, it's on, then leave Town.

Regarding trade: You could grade Compass + Music against Philo (test if that works, if not you have to research into Philo) and then trade Optics against the rest of CS. Good idea .

GZ to wiping out Monty, and you're welcome.

 

[Todelotti]

You could grade Compass + Music against Philo (test if that works, if not you have to research into Philo)

Tested that already. Mansa would accept.