Improving on Monarch level

[Pangaea]

@Pangaea: Did you keep Ur or did you raze it? The city location doesn't look very good, does it? Just the Spice tile, 2 FPs and 6 grassland tiles. Is it worth to keep the city?

I kept it. I don't like to raze cities unless they are truly crap, and this one has some FPs that you can farm or cottage. You also need cities at this point. To be honest I didn't even think about it, so kept it by default

 

[Todelotti]

I kept it. I don't like to raze cities unless they are truly crap, and this one has some FPs that you can farm or cottage. You also need cities at this point. To be honest I didn't even think about it, so kept it by default

OK, maybe it's also a strategically important location. I have to play the final city capture turn again anyway because Civ4 just crashed May I cold whip (3-pop) a Trireme in Monty's Grave? It looks that this is my only chance to save the fish from being pillaged. (But letting them pillage and build a new work boat might be cheaper...) Or how did you deal with those annoying Barb Galleys? Haha, this question is a bit cheating now...

 

[Pangaea]

The galley busted the resource in my game, and then I got out a trireme to deal with it shortly after. Maybe not ideal, but I didn't pay a great deal of attention to the details.

 

[slengtorm]

Just wanted to chime in to say I've been lurking and loving this thread. I usually don't read many game-specific threads on here. I tend to prefer threads that are talking about something in general rather than a given game. But I started reading this one, got sucked in and have read the whole thing. Really appreciate the good stuff from Pangaea, Seriael and others. Hope their contributions are as useful and entertaining to others as they are to me.

 

[Seraiel]

Ofc. you can emergency whip / cold whip if it's needed. Just try to plan better in before next time, whipping without having at least 1 invested suffers a huge penalty.

Regarding the city: if a city has 13 workable good tiles (everything from Grassland upwards) , it's not a bad city. It'll take ages 'til it has grown to even work all those tiles, and once it has, you can simply work specialists with the food that's left.

We rates that city from monty, because it had bo food, but ad long as a city has any kind of food, you shouldn' normally raze it.

That post from Pangaea should btw. be in spoilers.

 

[Seraiel]

Just wanted to chime in to say I've been lurking and loving this thread. I usually don't read many game-specific threads on here. I tend to prefer threads that are talking about something in general rather than a given game. But I started reading this one, got sucked in and have read the whole thing. Really appreciate the good stuff from Pangaea, Seriael and others. Hope their contributions are as useful and entertaining to others as they are to me.

Thx for writing this .

Threads about a single topic are great to get specific information, but to get the ideas what to search for, one needs to read game-specific threads / wtiteups.

 

[Todelotti]

Really appreciate the good stuff from Pangaea, Seriael and others. Hope their contributions are as useful and entertaining to others as they are to me.

For me they are! Also from my side thanks for the great discussion yesterday to Pangaea, Seraiel, kevtrev and all others who contributed! It was again difficult and I didn't get everything right from the beginning (seeing so late that Education->Gunpowder is possible threw me off the track). But I think deciding about the tech path from here was another important point in the game and well worth the longer discussion.

I will try to sort out and schedule all the tasks for the next turns and hopefully can post a game status update later.

 

[Todelotti]

I'm wondering how to continue with tile improvements, especially around the capital and around Uppsala. Basically the grasslands are all cottaged or farmed.

- Around Nidaros: There are 4 grassland hills to improve. 2 of them are river side hills. I'd say that I want to cottage the 2 river side hills (to get the FIN bonus immediately) and maybe mine the other 2. (Nidaros is very low on hammers.) Or should I consider to cottage those as well?

- Around Uppsala: Uppsala only has 6 more plains tiles available. (The grassland 1S of Wine is the one that the Barbarian Sword destroyed. I'm refarming it currently to irrigate the 3 west farms again.) What to do with those plains tiles? Is it worth to farm them looking forward to Biology? It's probably not urgent but my workers start to run out of work, so I could just do it now.

 

[Seraiel]

Plz build Windmills on the riverside hills at Nidaros and Mines on the 2 other. WMs also produce 3 when riverside + FIN, and you desperately need Hammers in that city.

Cannot see the screens unfortunately. Have you already chopped all Forests? I'd build Farms in the NE city looking forward to Bio, and in the other cities I'd build tons of Workshops, because those give 2 + 3 with SP, Chem and Guilds.

 

[Todelotti]

Regarding the city: if a city has 13 workable good tiles (everything from Grassland upwards) , it's not a bad city.

Then Ur is a bad city and I will raze it.

Regarding the Trireme cold-whip: I won't do it because the Barb Galley is only 1 tile away from the fish. Because the Galley has 2 movement points they can move onto the fish and pillage in the same turn which means: I can't stop them anyway. I rather try to take out the Galley with the Trireme that I already have and spend the hammers for a new work boat.

 

[Todelotti]

Plz build Windmills on the riverside hills at Nidaros and Mines on the 2 other. WMs also produce 3 when riverside + FIN, and you desperately need Hammers in that city.

Cannot see the screens unfortunately. Have you already chopped all Forests? I'd build Farms in the NE city looking forward to Bio, and in the other cities I'd build tons of Workshops, because those give 2 + 3 with SP, Chem and Guilds.

Ah, Windmills, I forgot them. Will do so (after I have Machinery). Yes, the forests for Nidaros and Uppsala are all chopped. Only 2 or 3 left for Haithabu (HE city).

Doesn't Birka, the (future) Globe Theatre city, also want farms on the plains tiles because the city should get maximized food?

 

[Seraiel]

Yes, I forgot to mention Birka.

 

[Todelotti]

Few questions during my way to Steel:

- I have finished Gunpowder now.
- And I have traded Music for Machinery (+1 turn own research) with Charlemagne. I didn't trade with Mansa because that had forced me to give him Paper. After the trade with Charlemagne still nodody has Paper, so they are all still quite far away from Liberalism.
- Mansa is researching Engineering now (6 turns).
- Next GS is born in Uppsala

Questions:

1) I cannot research Chemistry now because I need Engineering first. I can wait for Mansa but if he has finished Engineering I need something to trade with him. Possible options are:

-- I research Optics now which would finish at about the same time when Mansa completes Engineering. Then I trade Paper+Optics for Engineering. Then I start Chemistry and lib Steel after that. I don't think that Mansa can catch up with Education+Lib (if he will go that path at all).

-- The other option might be to put a few turns into Engineering myself and trade Paper alone for Engineering.

I'm not sure how important Printing Press is and when to schedule that. If I would go PP now I don't have enough to trade for Engineering with Mansa.

2) I have fired all specialists in all cities to focus on growth. Was that correct? However, the NE is finished now in Uppsala and it might make sense to hire 2 scientists again (35 turns until next GS).

3) The Great Merchant in Birka didn't complete during the GA and I cannot hire merchants after leaving Caste System. What to do with that half-completed Great Merchant embryo? Are we planning to continue in the next Golden Age?

 

[Seraiel]

Reaearch PP. It's a good tech with having so many Villages and you should be able to trade it against Engineering. Look if bulbing it with your GS is possible, if you lack gold / research.

Uppsala definitely should run specialists, the whole time, because of the NE.

How much is missing for the GM? And has somebody built the MoM already? Any chances to get Marble somehow? That would make Nationalism attractive.

You can also not bulb PP, then we hire Artists in Birka and start the next GA.

Can you post screens if the cities plz, so we can talk over micro and which cities should whip something and also which 6 cities get the universities.

 

[Seraiel]

You should not trade Paper unless you have no other choice. The AI can only see 2 techs far, so if it doesn't ha e Paper, it can not even see Liberalism and Economics.

Had an Idea though: Bulb PP if possible, and for the next GP, we hire Scientists and Artists in Uppsala. Then we reaearch Economics and get a free GM, which we can use together with the GP from Uppsala.

 

[Todelotti]

Reaearch PP. It's a good tech with having so many Villages and you should be able to trade it against Engineering. Look if bulbing it with your GS is possible, if you lack gold / research.

Yes, bulbing is possible.

How much is missing for the GM? And has somebody built the MoM already? Any chances to get Marble somehow? That would make Nationalism attractive.

297/500 GPP for the GM. MoM isn't built yet. I don't see a chance to get Marble. Mansa has one, Zara has one. One in far away south-east tundra/ice is unsettled but very close to Ramesses border.

Here are the city screens. A few turns ago I have whipped Birka for a Forge and Uppsala to finish the NE.

 

[Seraiel]

Great, with thw recent Tapatalk update, I now can't see any screns at all, so I have to comment on the screens in my Memory.

Capital should whip a Forge and then continue on a University. Note: This University shall not finish. Stop building it plz when it's a 2pop-whip with max OF. There are yellow marks on the production-bar, which let you know when that is. After Uni, build a Market in the same way as the Uni, so stopit at the right time. After that, build a Temple and also stop it at the right time. Report on this. What we want is to whip all 3 buildings on the same turn, to generate 3 times max OF, which hopefully be enough to 1T Oxford. The trippke whip should happen 3 turns before the last Uni is ready, because one can't build more than 1 building / turn.

Let Uppsala run Artists and Scientists, to create the next GP.

Birka Bib then Uni, no Specialists.

Monty's ex capital: probably Forge, Bib Uni.

Silver crabs Fore Bib.

Monty's grave, MOAI.

_____________

Chose 3 further cities for Unis. Plan with the cities you get through Conquest.

Giggles capital had nice food, build a theater there and produce the Globe, the city is better than Birka and we haven't invested in the GT yet.

Any questions?

 

[Seraiel]

Do you understand that Oxford thing? The important part is the max OF, not the population of the whip. If you can construct 6 units and the capital only gets the Market to 3pop-whip with max OF, that's ok. You yourself have to make a call on that, because you're the only one who can estimate when those 6 Universities are ready. If you have to 4 or 5pop whip the universities, that's perfectly ok, Oxford will give more research than the lost pop.

 

[Todelotti]

Let me familiarize first with those yellow markers and what they are doing during the next turns, then I'll see if I understand the Oxford-Overflow-Thing.

One question about the research/trade path: I bulb PP now (to about 80 or 90%) and research the rest until completion. But then? I can't go Economics directly after that (needs Guilds->Banking first). And how do I trade for Engineering? If no AI has Paper they can't trade for PP, can they? So, do I Guilds after PP?

 

[Seraiel]

Uh, there you see what a newby I have gotten in 2 weeks not playing. I'd trade Mansa Guilds + if needed Paper for Engineering. Chances that he'll go education are there, but he first will research banking which we also want, and apart from that, our tech rate us way to high for him getting anything. You can still bulb PP though and research it 'til the end after Guilds, because there's enough profit from it.

Good thing about trading hin Oaoer and guilds at least is, that we can then trade PP and Gunpowder to him.

The yellow markers tell you when a whip will cost less pop, so ideally you would stop 1 before reaching the 1pop marker.