incremental patch discussion

[davidlallen]

Dune Wars CvGameCoreDLL with hated civics:

Great, thanks a million! It is doing "something". I added the schema file and then filled in the data for the leaderheads. I started a game and used WB to give myself the paradise tech, and had a revolution to use it. Then I gave myself a scout which is nearby to somebody who should hate me, and made first contact.

When I hover over the leader who should hate me, in the diplomacy screen, I see the "hates me" text and they are shown as annoyed, not cautious. That is good. But, in the glance screen and the other hovers, their reaction to me is zero. That is bad. Probably I have missed some small point which also needs to be incorporated from darkciv. Attached my changed schema and leaderheadinfos; I will post back onto the darkciv thread along with your changed code to see if they have any suggestion.

Order in Civ4TerrainInfos.xml matters. I remember we had some graphical problems with terrain on the old land based map scripts I made and I fixed that by moving the faulty terrain from last position to somewhere inbetween. Try to put it next to the other flat land terrains.

That was it. By reordering that file, I can now see the green and tan again. I moved polar ice, terra grass, and terra plains to be just before coast. Perhaps there is some hidden assumption that all the flat terrains should go together.

 

[keldath]

damn!!!!

i knew i forgot to do something!

i was in a bit of a rush today and i completely forgot about the hated civics!
sorry david!!!

thanks koma13 for building the dll,

you are correct that in patch 1.3.5 there's no sdk changes, 1.3 sdk is the most updated one.


again sorry for the confusion, my bad!


****
koma13, two weeks is a long time! you will be missed!

***
about the ffh thing,
i once thought of grabbing some code from there, but it is intimidating, and scary.
i wouldnt know where to start even.

 

[Deliverator]

about the ffh thing, i once thought of grabbing some code from there, but it is intimidating, and scary. i wouldnt know where to start even.

I can see that it is very intimidating and heavily customized. I was thinking more that if we see a tag we think would be useful for something we want to do, we could look at their SDK source and see how it is done. Cherry pick stuff. For example, this tag:

<PrereqTerrains> - Multiple entries allowed list of Terrain Types required on TIle to gain a promotion

Sounds like it would be great to give a unit a worm rider promotion when on Ocean and Coast tiles. It doesn't sound particularly like this piece of functionality is building on the FFH2 SDK, it sounds separate, but I could be wrong.

 

[koma13]

David told us:

When I hover over the leader who should hate me, in the diplomacy screen, I see the "hates me" text and they are shown as annoyed, not cautious. That is good. But, in the glance screen and the other hovers, their reaction to me is zero. That is bad. Probably I have missed some small point which also needs to be incorporated from darkciv.

Hmm, looks like we missed something. I would say the basics are working but not all messages are updated. Maybe there are other files needed?

 

[keldath]

deliverator,

yeah grabbing a tag or too that we need can be cool,

but,
how will will know on which files the code of the 1 tag are located? wont we need to go over all of the files in order to make sure we dont miss any code, manually - it can be very frustrating...



hated civs,

mmm you guys want me to try and merge it as well?

 

[koma13]

hated civs,

mmm you guys want me to try and merge it as well?

You can try, but as far as I understand DarKCiv is a huge mod with plenty of changes. We would have to check each sdk file and there are no real topic/content related comments. Maybe better wait for david, he wanted to ask about that in the darkciv thread.

 

[keldath]

i see, perhaps he missed a code from the sdk then.

i shall wait.

 

[davidlallen]

i see, perhaps he missed a code from the sdk then.

i shall wait.

Actually the code is working fine, it was my test that was incorrect. I guess the "glance" panel is only updated at the end of the turn. Using a spiritual leader, I performed the civic change and then immediately looked in the diplo screen. If I wait till the next turn before looking, then everything is fine.

I have written a wrapup post here.

I want to take a crack at the worm rider promotion/unit art swapping thing, everything else is ready for 1.3.6.

 

[davidlallen]

Here is unofficial patch 1.3.6. Includes changes from 1.3.1 through 1.3.5; you may install on top of either 1.3, or any of these earlier patches. The release note for 1.3.3 is here. The release note for 1.3.4 is here. The release note for 1.3.5 is here.

This patch has a few changes, primarily the Bene Gesserit unique ability, and in-game documentation of the game rules which work differently on Dune. Please do read the unique ability entry in the civilopedia and then try out the civilizations with unique abilities. We can start to tune these up once there is feedback.

Major changes

* Added unique unit for Bene Gesserit, Reverend Mother. Detailed design discussion in this thread. May explore rival territory; has new promotion "Prescience" which acts like "Sentry 2". Each turn, one unit stacked with the Reverend Mother may gain a combat or drill promotion, representing training in the Weirding Way. Specifically, there is a 10% chance one combat unit will gain a combat or drill promotion, up to combat 4 or drill 3, regardless of whether that unit is normally allowed that promotion.

* Modified civilopedia so that when it comes up, a new section Dune Wars Concepts is highlighted. See attached screen shot. Added text for six main concepts. If this is kept up to date, it should be a helpful way for new players to see how this mod differs from vanilla.

* Revised sandworm movement AI. Will now enter cultural borders (how did I miss that before?), detects non-thopter units at range 2 and will chase you. Run into the hills!

* Spice decays much slower. Spice blows are now less common, but your commerce output should be more predictable. Also, the initial map has spice, instead of spice blows which convert to spice on turn 3.

* Added "hated civic". When you choose the Arrakis Paradise civic, civs which depend on spice (Corrino, Spacer Guild, Bene Gesserit) get a -4 diplomatic penalty against you. When you choose the Arrakis Spice civic, civs which want to terraform (Fremen, Sietch Tabr) get a -4 diplomatic penalty against you. This is borrowed from the darkciv mod and built by koma13.

* Start of Fremen unique ability, not fully implemented. I added a UU for Fremen Soldier which is an exact copy of the normal soldier except it can move anywhere. This is part 1; part 2 is to give faster movement over desert by unit swapping. My first attempt at this had a horrendous impact on runtime, so I need another approach. I will update the worm rider thread with more details shortly.

Minor changes - terrain, improvements

* Terraformed grass and plains were showing up as black or brown terrain. Changed order of definition in civ4terraininfos.xml and now it shows up correctly.

* Improvements with terraformed terrain underneath would no longer connect to the city. Fixed; added terraform terrains to Desert Trade tech.

* Once a plot terraforms, no new improvements could be built. Fixed; added terraform terrains to TerrainMakesValid list for most improvements.

* The Hunting Camp, Insect Farm and Solar Farm were buildable on fresh water, apparently by accident. No longer.

* Prevent cloud bonus from appearing, at all, for now. In some later patch, I will use the art to create a variant of the sandstorm, which will be spawned by terraformed terrain.

* Changed back name of surface mine improvement, was temporarily "mineral extraction" in 1.3.5

* Added civilopedia text for bonuses as written by Deliverator

* Renamed all bonuses within the XML. No user visible effect but it is easier to mod now.

Minor changes - buildings, units, civs

* Added airlift capability to space port, built with space ports tech. This is a little late in the tree, but earlier than Desert Airfield which gave this before. The idea is to allow somewhat easier movement for workers.

* Worker can no longer walk on "water" (deep desert). Left over from pre-1.3.2 when early foot units could all walk on water.

* Monument now gives +2 culture like vanilla; previously it gave only +1

* Removed City Water Trap. Rarely used, no real need for it

* If a Harkonnen attacked a sandworm and won, a slave would be generated. No longer.

* Changed Ixian leader from Hwi Noree to Malky

* Renamed all civilizations within the XML

You can download it from this link. (12 MB)

 

[davidlallen]

Here are my plans for the next week or so. It is more "design" than "implementation".

1. Playtest, playtest, playtest! There are so many changes.

2. I implemented the worm rider mechanic to swap a soldier unit for a worm rider when the unit steps on coast, and swap back when it steps on land. But the runtime is horrible. I *suspect* this is because the graphic display time of the wormsign moving is long; I will retry with the empty.nif Deliverator posted previously. I want to get this working so the Fremen will be fast raiders.

3. Design anchor grass or other pillage-able item for terraforming victory. I agree that we need a way to slow down the victory, and maybe making something pillage-able will help.

4. Deliverator added a cloud feature. That is a nice idea, but what I think we want is something like a sandstorm, spawned by terraformed terrain. As it travels, it should shrink over desert, and destroy any spice it goes near. Something like the rainstorm map effect we played with briefly for 1.2.2 may be better; in this case, a rain effect actually makes sense.

5. For the Spacer Guild, I was thinking about raider troops which could drop in on terrain which is being terraformed to destroy it. Paradrop may work; but I asked in the BBAI thread and the AI does not use paratroopers very well. I have worked through the python for creating a "deepstrike" action. I will play with this and see if I can find a way to teach the AI to use it.

6. Continue thinking about Tleilaxu unique abilities.

7. There are a few civs for which I don't have any concrete ideas on unique abilities: Corrino, Atreides, Ix, Ordos.

8. At any time, I can do a mass renaming of buildings, techs and units. This will touch a huge number of files with a huge number of changes, but the script to do it is ready.

 

[Deliverator]

Patch looks really good david. Well done.

2. I implemented the worm rider mechanic to swap a soldier unit for a worm rider when the unit steps on coast, and swap back when it steps on land. But the runtime is horrible. I *suspect* this is because the graphic display time of the wormsign moving is long; I will retry with the empty.nif Deliverator posted previously. I want to get this working so the Fremen will be fast raiders.

If it is the art then an SDK solution won't help I guess, but I still think it's worth taking a look at how the Fall Further PromotionInfos <PrereqTerrains> tag is working. Maybe Koma can take a look.

3. Design anchor grass or other pillage-able item for terraforming victory. I agree that we need a way to slow down the victory, and maybe making something pillage-able will help.

I'd really like to see grass improvements on the coast ocean tiles - it would make the
Terraforming feel more complete.

Clouds... but what I think we want is something like a sandstorm, spawned by terraformed terrain.

That is what I original thought of for the Sirocco wind idea, can it also boost water output from windtraps that it is passing over?

If you're thinking about unique faction mechanics be sure to consider this post from the board game thread.

8. At any time, I can do a mass renaming of buildings, techs and units. This will touch a huge number of files with a huge number of changes, but the script to do it is ready.

Now, might be a perfect time to do this. I have no local changes as of now, aside from art. Koma is going away, and yourself and Keldath have just done big patches. Can we just go for it? You could send me the amended files and I can use that as a base for 1.3.7.

 

[keldath]

great work david.


about the faction abilities, well ill have to dig in wikipedia,

ix - can be something related to a tech
corino - maybe they can get an isntant drop of toops of something ..
ordos - needs to be something with a saboteur maybe a great sab' that have unique power - like the r mother.
atreidis - something with ornithopters - voice units - sonic tank something.
maybe they can have a special unit that can capture enemy units - kinda like using the voice.

perhaps ill dig in the ffh code see if i can fish something out.

 

[davidlallen]

Now, might be a perfect time to do this [mass renaming].

Timing problem. I am busy in RL till tomorrow morning my time, say, 18 hrs from now. If you have already got some rebalancing ready to start, do you want to wait that long? Also, I would like keldath to confirm that he also has no local changes.

 

[Deliverator]

I'm happy to wait the hours. I have plenty of art to do, am busy myself for part of the time and can make notes/work with the spreadsheets for strategic bonuses.

 

[Deliverator]

Keldath, are you happy for david to do some further XML tag renaming? Or do you have local changes? It would be good to get the tag names cleaned up some more...

 

[keldath]

no so far i havent been doing dune,
im waiting for you to get patch 1.3.7 , then ill do more.

we take turns huh ?

 

[davidlallen]

OK, I will take two turns. Tomorrow I will put up 1.3.7, which is no change in gameplay, just the rest of the renaming.

 

[Ahriman]

start of Fremen unique ability, not fully implemented. I added a UU for Fremen Soldier which is an exact copy of the normal soldier except it can move anywhere. This is part 1; part 2 is to give faster movement over desert by unit swapping

Why not make the stillsuit promotion (given free from the sietch) give double moves in desert waste and deep desert, rather than +1 movement?
Saves having to create a bunch of UUs.

 

[davidlallen]

I tried that before. You can give double move by promotion. But, for terrain which has a base move cost of 1, there is no effect. Apparently each plot must have a cost of at least 1.

 

[Ahriman]

There is for a unit with only 1 movement point.

A 2 move unit with double moves in desert will move 2 tiles.

But a 1 move unit with double moves in desert will also move 2 tiles. At least it does in FFH; dwarven 1 move infantry move 2 tiles in hills, elven 1 move infantry move 2 tiles in forest, etc.

Thats why I suggested it instead of a bonus movement point.
Everyone's infantry moves 1 tiles, but Fremen infantry move 2 tiles in desert.