Inevitable gun control argument thread....

[Little Raven]

Personally, I'm advocating that the most responsible gun owners be able to carry in situations where most of the public cannot.

I'm wondering how law enforcement would view this, though. I would think they would be real twitchy about 'amateur' guns in courtrooms and the like, no matter how qualified the people holding them were. They don't like competition.

 

[Atlas14]

Death by firearm is the second largest cause of death by bodily harm in the USA, after motor vehicles. This is not the case in other countries where firearms are more restricted.

Why do you insist on comparing America to other countries?

 

[Pokurcz]

Jolly Roger

"First of all, nobody is advocating mandatory gun ownership."

Where did you get that from? I was just making a point by describing a imaginary scenario. I know nobody is advocating mandatory gun ownership.

"Personally, I'm advocating that the most responsible gun owners be able to carry in situations where most of the public cannot."

Well that is not far from what I am advocating.

"Second, what gun owner shoots more than they drive?"

Pleas do me a favor and describe to me in detail how you managed to distill that from my posts? Magic?

 

[Pokurcz]

Atlas14

"Why do you insist on comparing America to other countries?"

Because other countries are examples of other societies with more gun control and less people dying violent deaths by gunshots.

What else should I compare a nation to, a goat farm?

 

[JollyRoger]

I'm wondering how law enforcement would view this, though. I would think they would be real twitchy about 'amateur' guns in courtrooms and the like, no matter how qualified the people holding them were. They don't like competition.

Perhaps you could carve out an exception when armed security is actually present. My main concern is eliminating the situation where you have a large group of people gathered and if all of them are obeying the law, it is certain that nobody is armed, thus making them sitting ducks for a loony. On the other hand, I am not crazy about someone being allowed to be armed in a classroom or a bar unless they have gone through a background check that is substantially more expansive than what is now typical. I think a two tier licensing system could work.

 

[Atlas14]

Atlas14

"Why do you insist on comparing America to other countries?"

Because other countries are examples of other societies with more gun control and less people dying violent deaths by gunshots.

What else should I compare a nation to, a goat farm?

Did you ever stop to think that what works for one nation may not be feasible for another? Try banning turbans in Saudi Arabia. It just ain't gonna happen.

And besides, an armed nation is a freer nation.

 

[mrt144]

an armed nation is an armed nation, no more, no less.

I think its funny when people think reducing gun ownership by 50% is going to reduce the amount of murder related to guns significantly. The criminals are still going to use guns folks.

I think its also funny when people think increasing gun ownership by any amount will reduce the amount of death by a significant amount. While it may have stopped the sheer amount of people in this incident, on the whole, across the board, gun related deaths would not decrease.

I think its sad that both sides simply want to reduce one time events, not the entire picture.

 

[Pokurcz]

Atlas14

"Did you ever stop to think that what works for one nation may not be feasible for another? Try banning turbans in Saudi Arabia. It just ain't gonna happen."

You mean because everybody in the USA is a cowboy or a Redcoat repelling militiaman and that is why it is so important for the national identity?

Apparently it doesn't work, because the USA has the highest amount of violent deaths compared to other wealthy western nations, and death by firearm is only outperformed by traffic deaths. That is just remarkable from a European POV, how can you sit idly by whilst so many people die and not try to do something about it?

mrt144

"I think its funny when people think reducing gun ownership by 50% is going to reduce the amount of murder related to guns significantly. The criminals are still going to use guns folks."

Well not instantly, douh, but with time even the criminals will notice that the guns are not that important for successful criminal activity.

"I think its also funny when people think increasing gun ownership by any amount will reduce the amount of death by a significant amount."

Well of coarse the rise in gun ownership won't give a rise in deaths at a corresponding rate, but if you increase the amount with 100% the number of deaths might go up with say, 25%, maybe more maybe less. What is significant is that more innocent people would die by the hundreds every year.

What part of the bigger picture am I missing?

 

[mdwh]

Marijuana is illegal yet is present everywhere in our society...the point is that guns will always be present. Now you can either have criminals unsure of who is armed and who isn't, or you can have a bunch of criminals that will attain guns no matter what that are cocky as **** because they know everyone is unarmed. Take your pick.

But this mostly doesn't seem to be the case in the UK - most criminals be it shoplifters, muggers, or the chavs who are anti-social and might start a fight, they don't have guns. The few criminals who do have guns probably aren't the sort that I'd like to start a gun fight with anyway...

I suspect the reason why drugs are everywhere in the UK too is because many people see nothing wrong with it, and have the desire to take them. But few people have the desire to own guns - but this would change if gun laws changed, and everyone else started owning guns. Drugs don't work like that at all.

 

[skadistic]

As a gun owner can any one give me a good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to have them? I haven't shot any one. I haven't used it to rob any one. I carry it around hidden everyday and you'd never know it. Now I could go on a rampage but I don't. So why should I have a tool for protection taken from me?

 

[Pokurcz]

Have you ever needed it for protection, do you know anyone who has actually needed a gun for protection?

 

[skadistic]

Have you ever needed it for protection, do you know anyone who has actually needed a gun for protection?

I've used it twice to stop from being mugged or worse. A criminals emotions go from smug arrogance to utter fear when you show that you will not be a victim and can infact stop them.

 

[Pokurcz]

Maybe you should move to a different neighborhood.

But I take it they didn't have a gun themselves.

 

[skadistic]

Maybe you should move to a different neighborhood.

But I take it they didn't have a gun themselves.

No they didn't have a gun One had a knife the other time it was a group. I live in a safe 'hood. Both times this happened it was in a major city.

 

[Pokurcz]

Well I have almost been mugged twice in Stockholm and what I did was to just stare at the "mugger" as if he just said something stupid until he left. I guess the robbers around her aren't as bad as in the states.

Why do you have such violent people yonder?

 

[useless]

Well I have almost been mugged twice in Stockholm and what I did was to just stare at the "mugger" as if he just said something stupid until he left. I guess the robbers around her aren't as bad as in the states.

Why do you have such violent people yonder?

america usually has bad crime rate. gangs, murders.., muggings etc.

 

[skadistic]

Well I have almost been mugged twice in Stockholm and what I did was to just stare at the "mugger" as if he just said something stupid until he left. I guess the robbers around her aren't as bad as in the states.

Why do you have such violent people yonder?

In most of Europe if the mugger doesn't get your money its ok because he has a nice check from the government waiting for him at home. See here in America we expect you to take more care of yourself and be less of a parasite to the hard working people.

 

[Pokurcz]

Yeah but instead of doing something to decrease the amount of people who are violent or/and criminal Americans buy guns and raise the jail time.

 

[Pokurcz]

In most of Europe if the mugger doesn't get your money its ok because he has a nice check from the government waiting for him at home. See here in America we expect you to take more care of yourself and be less of a parasite to the hard working people.

That might be true, hmm...

Never thought about it that way, maybe them Socialists are on to something (I'm not a socialist). If you give people in desperate situations money from the government they do not need to hurt and mug law abiding citizens.

 

[skadistic]

That might be true, hmm...

Never thought about it that way, maybe them Socialists are on to something (I'm not a socialist). If you give people in desperate situations money from the government they do not need to hurt and mug law abiding citizens.

They may not hurt the lawful but they still steal from them only the government helps them. I'd rather have the choice to give a criminal my money then have a government force me to do it in my taxes.