Inflation help

[catman51325]

could someone please explain to me the inflation rate.

 

[Refar]

I dont know the exact formula. But i.g. - It is a plain "annoyance-feature". Meant to force the player to continually increase his income, as the cost will continually increase due to inflation.
It is completely indipendant on any Player/AI/Civ action* It will increase over time at a rate set with gamespeed. Nothing you can do about it*


* - There is a random Event in BTS, that will allow you to buy a one-time drop in the infaltion rate.

 

[mystikmind2005]

I am still playing vanilla - does that have inflation too?

I think inflation is deffinately a very stupid game element. Anyone with the slightest idea of how economics works would know that in the real world, inflation is caused because of increased income from static recources. Where is the increased income happening in the game from static recources? Are gold mines giving you more gold over time? No, so inflation in the game is total bul---t.

 

[buffalo6542]

Inflation is a rise in general level of prices of goods and services over time. Although "inflation" is sometimes used to refer to a rise in the prices of a specific set of goods or services, a rise in prices of one set (such as food) without a rise in others (such as wages) is not included in the original meaning of the word. Inflation can be thought of as a decrease in the value of the unit of currency. It is measured as the percentage rate of change of a price index[1] but it is not uniquely defined because there are various price indices that can be used.

Mainstream economists believe that high rates of inflation are caused by high rates of growth of the money supply.[2] Views on the factors that determine moderate rates of inflation are more varied: changes in inflation are sometimes attributed to fluctuations in real demand for goods and services or in available supplies (i.e. changes in scarcity), and sometimes to changes in the supply or demand for money. In the mid-twentieth century, two camps disagreed strongly on the main causes of inflation at moderate rates: the "monetarists" argued that money supply dominated all other factors in determining inflation, while "Keynesians" argued that real demand was often more important than changes in the money supply.

There are many measures of inflation. For example, different price indices can be used to measure changes in prices that affect different people. Two widely known indices for which inflation rates are reported in many countries are the Consumer Price Index (CPI), which measures consumer prices, and the GDP deflator, which measures price variations associated with domestic production of goods and services.


Related economic concepts include: deflation, a general falling in price level; disinflation, a decrease in the rate of inflation; hyperinflation, an out-of-control inflationary spiral; stagflation, a combination of inflation and slow economic growth and rising unemployment; and reflation, which is an attempt to raise prices to counteract deflationary pressures.

In classical political economy, inflation meant increasing the money supply, while deflation meant decreasing it (see Monetary inflation). Economists from some schools of economic thought (including some Austrian economists) still retain this usage. In contemporary economic terminology, these would usually be referred to as expansionary and contractionary monetary policies.

 

[Quotey]

Thanks for copy and pasting stuff from wikipedia!

How does Inflation scale with gamespeed?

 

[mystikmind2005]

Well no doubt there are allot of things that influence inflation in reality. You can make cloak and mirror points about inflation till the cows come home but at the end of the day we are talking about a simple 'money in money out' government treasury.

So the effects of inflation when applied to a government treasury, does not just sit there and stupidly increase costs alone, no, it also increases income! Now this is the obvious point i am making which is just plain stupid for the game developers to have left out.

For anyone who dousn't understand why i am correct, i will give 1 very simple example -
Ok the steel industry lately has been hit with some pretty hefty ore price rises. So if you have a ship building company you will have to pay allot more for your steel. Oh deer, poor ship building company, i guess they will have to scramble to cut costs and find other ways of making money to keep up rite? Hmmm or, um how about this amazing new concept.... they increase the price at which they sell their ships?? Net result of inflation on the shipping companies budget - zero.

Meanwhile as a government You pay the ship building company more as a government for the ships. So inflation at work rite? Yes indeed and here is what inflation also does at the same time - your tax revenue from the ship building company increases along with its increased income, and from the steel mill, and from the mining company!! And that happens automatically even before the government considers increasing taxation in line with inflation which is something all governments do. Net result of inflation on government budget - zero

Inflation in civ4, what nonsense is this, what a crock, get it off!

 

[zyphyr]

Don't want inflation? Mod it out.

In CIV4HandicapInfos.XML, each difiiculty has a setting : iInflationPercent. Put it at 0, and no more inflation.

 

[bd43]

Well no doubt there are allot of things that influence inflation in reality. You can make cloak and mirror points about inflation till the cows come home but at the end of the day we are talking about a simple 'money in money out' government treasury.

So the effects of inflation when applied to a government treasury, does not just sit there and stupidly increase costs alone, no, it also increases income! Now this is the obvious point i am making which is just plain stupid for the game developers to have left out.

For anyone who dousn't understand why i am correct, i will give 1 very simple example -
Ok the steel industry lately has been hit with some pretty hefty ore price rises. So if you have a ship building company you will have to pay allot more for your steel. Oh deer, poor ship building company, i guess they will have to scramble to cut costs and find other ways of making money to keep up rite? Hmmm or, um how about this amazing new concept.... they increase the price at which they sell their ships?? Net result of inflation on the shipping companies budget - zero.

Meanwhile as a government You pay the ship building company more as a government for the ships. So inflation at work rite? Yes indeed and here is what inflation also does at the same time - your tax revenue from the ship building company increases along with its increased income, and from the steel mill, and from the mining company!! And that happens automatically even before the government considers increasing taxation in line with inflation which is something all governments do. Net result of inflation on government budget - zero

Inflation in civ4, what nonsense is this, what a crock, get it off!

Theoretically that's the issue. The Government doesn't take a hit from inflation - The people, however, do. And as inflation goes up, the people are expected to pay more, and unless the Government adds in more money they can't pay for things - If the government doesn't take out old money, the system will sink.

 

[Yxklyx]

I like the inflation rule.

 

[Balderstrom]

mystikmind2005 touches on an interesting concept, to have inflation affect the cost of buildings/units. Though I don't think mm2005 meant that.

If inflation was half what it is now and had the following effects.
At maximum 50% Inflation:

All upkeep costs are increased 50%
All Trade benefits are increased 25%
All Unit/Building costs are increased 25%

The numbers could be fudged around for game balance, but it is an interesting idea nonetheless.

 

[Willem]

No, so inflation in the game is total bul---t.

What's so b******* about it? It's just reflecting what happens in the real world.

 

[mystikmind2005]

Bd43 - Yes indeed, inflation does affect the individual person.

Yxklyx - I dunno why anyone would like it, usually if unrealistic things are put in games it is because they do something fun, what is fun about a nonsensical economic drain?

Willem - seriously man, you need to brush up on some economics!

 

[Willem]

Willem - seriously man, you need to brush up on some economics!

I've been around for 50 years. I don't need an economics degree to know that things get more expensive over time. It's a fact of life. That chocolate bar you now pay $1 for used to cost a dime at some point. That's inflation.

 

[mystikmind2005]

I've been around for 50 years. I don't need an economics degree to know that things get more expensive over time. It's a fact of life. That chocolate bar you now pay $1 for used to cost a dime at some point. That's inflation.

Yes but if you were a government buying that same chokolate bar then you simply increase taxation in line with inflation to afford the chokolate bar for effectively the exact same budget defecit. Also you would be making extra tax of the chokolate company at the same time anyway!

It is only the individual private citizen who looses out to inflation.

There is a whole other side to inflation with regard to overseas trade and the value of a nations dollar. But in Civ4 there is no distinction of what each countries currency is worth, nor is there any overseas products that compete in price with the home brand version so inflation cannot affect your internal economy in that regard either in civ4.

 

[Fried Egg]

I've been around for 50 years. I don't need an economics degree to know that things get more expensive over time. It's a fact of life. That chocolate bar you now pay $1 for used to cost a dime at some point. That's inflation.

This is an interesting point because it illustrates how we have come to accept perpetual inflation as an innevitable fact of life. It might be interesting to note that between 1830 and 1914 (broadly the period under which we had the gold standard) there was virtually nill price inflation. The expansion in the supply of gold kept pace with economic growth and prices over the long term remained broadly unchanged. Of course, individual prices went up and down, reflecting the relative scarcity of goods, but the general price level remained stable.

Perpetual price inflation is a modern phenomenon that has been brought about by the gradual erosion (and eventual complete abolishion) of the gold standard. Most governments pursue a deliberate policy of monetary expansion that outstrips economic growth. This, far from depleting the amount governments can spend, actually increases the amount of money the state gets to spend. This is because treasury bonds can be sold to the central bank in exchange for new money. The money supply can expand in this way indefinitely because each dollar or pound in your pocket is no longer redeemable for gold (or any other commodity).

Inflation thus acts as a stealth tax levied by your government to raise funds in a far more politically acceptable way than raising taxes.

 

[MrCynical]

It's funny how these threads always end up as arguments about real life inflation, despite it being completely irrelevant to Civ.

The "inflation" in Civ 4 is basically a fudge factor built in to balance out the increasing availability of gold in the later stages of the game. "Inflation" was merely a convenient name, and I don't think it was remotely intended to model the real life phenomenon. It can't be directly affected except by one random event in BtS, so the best you can do is minimise the base cost the factor is being applied to. Editing it out is liable to unbalance the game (particularly where corporations are concerned).

 

[Willem]

It's funny how these threads always end up as arguments about real life inflation, despite it being completely irrelevant to Civ.

The "inflation" in Civ 4 is basically a fudge factor built in to balance out the increasing availability of gold in the later stages of the game.

I agree. If it weren't for the inflation factor, people would have money coming out of their ears and would be able to run the research slider at maximum through most of the game plus be able to afford a massive military. It's simply a game balance issue having it in the game. From a gameplay perspective, it needs to be in there and I personally think it's been handled quite well.

 

[mystikmind2005]

It's funny how these threads always end up as arguments about real life inflation, despite it being completely irrelevant to Civ.

The "inflation" in Civ 4 is basically a fudge factor built in to balance out the increasing availability of gold in the later stages of the game. "Inflation" was merely a convenient name, and I don't think it was remotely intended to model the real life phenomenon. It can't be directly affected except by one random event in BtS, so the best you can do is minimise the base cost the factor is being applied to. Editing it out is liable to unbalance the game (particularly where corporations are concerned).

I agree totally, inflation is indeed irrelevant to civ4.

The use of the term 'fudge factor' is nicely put

The things we will swollow and overlook in our rush to worship at the altar of game balance

 

[Jolly Rogerer]

Yes but if you were a government buying that same chokolate bar then you simply increase taxation in line with inflation to afford the chokolate bar for effectively the exact same budget defecit. Also you would be making extra tax of the chokolate company at the same time anyway!

It is only the individual private citizen who looses out to inflation.

....

If you are talking about real life, then you are wrong. Inflation is a huge disincentive to saving and investment (and hence long term growth). In the end even the most confiscatory government is limited in how much they can take from their citizens by how much there is. With high inflation over time there will be less.

 

[Balderstrom]

But wouldn't an actual stockMarket in Civ be fun? There are games back from the 80s (Commodore ][ Vic20/64, among many others I imagine) The "BASIC" code could easily be cleaned up, StockMarket affecting events added in...