Inviting the Infernals

[Minor Annoyance]

If Hyborem doesn't join my team like Basium does, what's the reason to summon him? I'm am the Sheaim so I do benefit from them increasing the AC and we do have good relation from evil and the mana I have, but is there anything else?

 

[WCH]

Well... if you're playing on No Settlers (an interesting style of play, good for preserving wilderness. Perfect when you do raging barbarians and Advanced Start with a generous supply of gold), Hyborem is certain to not get all that strong, and will therefore almost certainly offer himself to you as a vassal state.

I was once playing as Grigori and had that happen... it's like... no. I'm agnostic. You're a demon.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I had thought of them as a vassal state but I thought asking for protection would be beneath him. It will be interesting to see what he says.

 

[Wyrmhero]

The main advantage is the option to swap your civ for the Infernals. Of course, he is also a great help in the inevitable Good vs. Evil fight at the end of any good game of FfH.

 

[Kael]

Demon summoning certainly carries risks, the brocures always make it look so appealing!

Seriously, he can be a curse or a blessing. We are working at ramping up his aggresivness right now (and then making sure he is capable of being aggresive) so he will be even more of a curse or a blessing. I've always wanted to add a special attitude modifier that an AI hyborem gives his summoner. Not that it would be impossible for him to turn on his summoner, but ot make it less likely given a host of other targets.

 

[Nor'easter]

Demon summoning certainly carries risks, the brocures always make it look so appealing!

Seriously, he can be a curse or a blessing. We are working at ramping up his aggresivness right now (and then making sure he is capable of being aggresive) so he will be even more of a curse or a blessing. I've always wanted to add a special attitude modifier that an AI hyborem gives his summoner. Not that it would be impossible for him to turn on his summoner, but ot make it less likely given a host of other targets.

In addition to ramping up Hyborem's aggressiveness, would it also make sense to hard-code him so that he never offers himself as a vassal? I don't know the details of the FfH lore, of course, but it always seems strange in a game when I see Hyborem become someone else's vassal -- I'd expect him to fight until the bitter end.

 

[Sofista]

I've always wanted to add a special attitude modifier that an AI hyborem gives his summoner. Not that it would be impossible for him to turn on his summoner, but ot make it less likely given a host of other targets.

A funny moment in a recent game: Os-Gabella summoned Hyborem, and immmediately... being her cheerful self, started to dislike him. Then she declared. The result? The quickest David-knocks-out-Goliath I'd ever witnessed.

 

[Tarquelne]

We are working at ramping up his aggresivness right now (and then making sure he is capable of being aggresive) so he will be even more of a curse or a blessing.

Good news! Well, bad news... but good news!

In addition to ramping up Hyborem's aggressiveness, would it also make sense to hard-code him so that he never offers himself as a vassal?

Unless they're actually disabled in FFH2 (and from anecdotal evidence I don't think they are) the leader characteristics in LeaderheadInfos can be set to make Hyborem loathe to become a vassal.

 

[Mewtarthio]

A funny moment in a recent game: Os-Gabella summoned Hyborem, and immmediately... being her cheerful self, started to dislike him. Then she declared. The result? The quickest David-knocks-out-Goliath I'd ever witnessed.

"At long last, I have forged the Infernal Pact! Now, behold, Hyborem, greatest servant of Agares, has come to destroy Erebus once and for all!"
"Indeed! I must thank you, foolish mortal, for allowing me access to your world. Perhaps I will spare you for now, that we may together revel in slaughter as our mutual love of destruction is made consummate!"
"Mutual love... consummate... Are you hitting on me? That does it; time to die!"

-------

Back on topic:
I've always thought that Hyborem would be interesting if you got a temporary bonus to diplomacy for summoning him. It could start off big, but gradually taper away as Hyborem decides he's spared you long enough. That'd be in keeping with the overall theme of the Ashen Veil: You get lots of power quickly, but you're screwing yourself over in the long run.

 

[Sofista]

No kidding - I'm sure that, hadn't gabby seen Hyborem as a male, war wouldn't have happened.

(Am I the only one who sees Hyborem as the reincarnation of Dungeon Keeper 2's very own gem, the Horned Reaper, known to fandom as Horny?)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still think that it would probably be better if the relationship with Hyborem or Basium was a vassalage agreement (probably making the human be the master). Hyborem would be likely to rebel though.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I'd disagree. Basium is on a fanatical mission so it would maker sense for him to just follow you in whatever you want. Unless there are serious negative modifiers for going against their mission such that the could very easily rebel.
I think you've supposed to be joining their cause rather than them joining yours.

 

[WCH]

Well, the team with Basium on it will automatically declare war on any civ with Ashen Veil... you can make peace with them each time, but he'll declare war again once the 10 turns of peace are up. Since that's Basium's fanatical mission, I suppose it's all that's needed... he doesn't care about anything else nearly as much, so as long as you'll take part in his crusade against the AV, he'll help you do whatever else you're working on.

 

[Demus]

No kidding - I'm sure that, hadn't gabby seen Hyborem as a male, war wouldn't have happened.

(Am I the only one who sees Hyborem as the reincarnation of Dungeon Keeper 2's very own gem, the Horned Reaper, known to fandom as Horny?)

DK2's horny wasn't THAT brilliant though, you should see the original DK's one. You had to build an entire dungeon for each one you had (it was a normal creep, not a summon) because he would start fighting all your other monsters around.

Back on topic though: i still think Hyborem should enter the world with a lot more units than he does now. It's the complete invasion of hell after all! Same goes for Basium obviously.

 

[CMHistory]

I'm going to have to come down on the side of the minority who feel that Hyborem should enter the world as part of an alliance, just like Basium. Not only would it improve his survivability, but it is thematically appropriate....I don't think he would have any problem working together permanently with someone crazy/evil enough to invite him into the world and send the AC counter a-mounting.

 

[Sofista]

I always get things wrong, but... Basium, as I see it, enters creation as a team mate of his summoner because, well, if they're ready to summon him and lose a city it should probably mean, to him, that they're really willing to pull their weight in fighting the good fight.
Hyborem, well... he's a demon, and a hardcore one. His summoner can expect at most Christmas cards from him if they're not twin souls.