IOT Developmental Thread

I'm gonna for for the under bet and say that the new EU4 mechanics will leak into IOT before the New Year.

The already did a long time ago when trade routes were announced, but it never caught on.

Though I really wouldn't mind playing a game that takes place between 1500 and 1800 for a change that has an actual ruleset.
 
Since it's the in thing to do now.

MPV Development Diary – Overview of the Brand and Changes

Has it been five MP games already?

It is no secret that within my games, I have a particular taste in fantasy and soft power that dates back to the Sons of Mars series which tried and failed to implement such things. My interest in soft power has been stimulated by my love of stock trading as well as the games Balance of Power and the Cold War campaign in Rise of Nations. When I first created Multipolarity I, I had finally come up with a system that more or less got the job done, but was crude; regardless players were able to fight in ways besides wars, and this was the ultimate goal, as conflict is a must for good story and keeping players on the edge of their seat. The game was perhaps one of my best, but died due to faulty war mechanics allowing a massive snowball at the end.

Come the second game, I desired to outdo 1 in every aspect. I played with espionage, and while it was not as hilariously stupid as the first game’s, it was far from flawless. While I found great value in Thorvald of Lym as a sub-GM due to his skill in managing NPC personalities, ultimately I found the concept of a sub-GM a bit hard to work with mechanically and because it also tended to create a conflict between player and NPCGM desires. MP2 had many ideas such as stock markets and corporations but ultimately it proved too unwieldy in terms of reining in aggression, and the game ended after a massive powerplay destroyed balance in the same vein as Scotireland in the first game.

I confess I barely even remember 3 without looking it up. Looking at the thread again, however, it was obvious it was continuing the trend of MP games having little to do with each other besides a focus on interference in minor nations and the brand name. Answering grievances about economics, I created a system of raw materials and energy that grew with territory… but ceased growing once expansion ended, leading to a cap-and-trade system that fostered conflict. While the resource system was an interesting experiment, it was a pain to manage and the micromanagement discouraged many; the flawed client system also made it so the market could rapidly shift at any moment.

MPIV had many improvements over prior games. For one, I came up with the idea of separate espionage accounts in every country; this idea was also developed independently by fellow GM Sonereal in his games. Thorvald’s suggestion of making clients more dynamic and not so easily swooped up gave birth to an influence system similar to the one Mosher had designed prior; unlike espionage I did borrow this idea from his Shattered Europe. And I will say, it was a fine idea; clients were extremely competitive, and there was continued tension between various major powers from Turn 1 to the very end. The espionage system also was of great merit; coups were few and far between and while there were several breakthroughs, no one was invincible. I finally found a system that wasn’t garbage after three games of trial and error. By filling in the map on turn one, I eliminated the stagnation that follows the end of expansion in most games; there was no expansion to get attached to, barring a few imperialist players.

The game quickly did run into some issues, however. Despite my disdain for them wars did break out over tensions, and the mechanics were such they were often critiqued. I remained adamant about them solely because I had no intention of allowing MP to become a war game, no matter how vocal the complaints for such were. The game ultimately died as a result of my allowing nuclear weapons to be launched from submarines… and without a valid mechanic to check this, there was really nowhere to go but Hell in a hand basket after that.

However, MPIV was ultimately the best game besides the first, I believe, having fixed espionage and clients, while also being where I developed a way to model global trade in a manner that kept me sane. I also came up with a revolutionary idea: the use of spreadsheets for each player to facilitate copy/pasting orders into my own spreadsheet, cutting turn times enormously. At one point I did 8 hours in the span of an hour, which was simply remarkable. As the players did one debate or another, I was checking what worked and what did not. I saw enormous merit (and ease) in clienting, espionage and economics, while I saw little use in military or WMD mechanics, for I simply could not model them well and any adjustment I made was sure to be criticized.

And that is how we arrive here, MPV. 5 is a wonderful number, being half of ten… it represents something special numerically as a result. Developing MPV, I felt I’d have to do the number proud.

One of my first decisions in design was simple: an end to war. Much like a game of Civ, when I GM wars, they slow the game down and are seldom enjoyable by whoever loses them. When I make war a valid move, I was delicately balance combat and occupation, or just erect a massive wall for defenders and bear the brunt of criticism by those who prefer violent play. If I make nuclear weapons an issue, no matter how much I try, they are sure to become overused at some point due to lack of regard for fictional millions’ lives. Furthermore, war allows one to focus on a small group of targets, whereas soft power forces one to often consider the big picture. I deemed war to add nothing to the game for those who did not live to fight them.

So I removed it. Entirely. I decided that if a player ordered so much as one troop across their border they would be struck down for it. But how would I justify this? A mass WMD arsenal wouldn’t do much good given time. It would just seem incredibly unrealistic to go to war against small countries but not majors, and with alliances being what they are, wars would inevitably spiral out of small occupations. How then, would I justify an end to war that was both easy on me mechanically and also made some semblance of sense in-universe?

It hit me like a ton of bricks. I had always disliked how little use the UN often got in games. It was frequently torn between idealists and players who wanted absolute power within their realms. It seemed like a clash of IC and OOC desires wrapped into a messy casserole. The UN’s sole use was often in-game bonuses rather than anything concrete.

So I decided to replace the UN as it was known. Instead of an international organization, it would become a world government. Nation-states would become simply states within a grand, worldwide federation. With the proper establishment I would be able to negate the influence of players who might try to disband it from within, yet keep enough freedom at the local level to keep those apathetic to global politics interested in the game itself. The UN would be more powerful than ever, a federation with its own money, military, and offices for players to fight for control over; conflict would shift from tanks and bullets to words and backdoor deals.

Of course, with the nation-state aspect eliminated, I would need to redevelop the game from the gound up, as the tools available to a player – political, economic, military, etc. – would change rapidly. With a new world order, would come a whole new set of mechanics.
 
So I decided to replace the UN as it was known. Instead of an international organization, it would become a world government. Nation-states would become simply states within a grand, worldwide federation. With the proper establishment I would be able to negate the influence of players who might try to disband it from within, yet keep enough freedom at the local level to keep those apathetic to global politics interested in the game itself. The UN would be more powerful than ever, a federation with its own money, military, and offices for players to fight for control over; conflict would shift from tanks and bullets to words and backdoor deals.

Of course, with the nation-state aspect eliminated, I would need to redevelop the game from the gound up, as the tools available to a player – political, economic, military, etc. – would change rapidly. With a new world order, would come a whole new set of mechanics.

call it United Earth. I really like that concept. one world is one nation, but with a lot of sub-nations. as usual, great job :)

but that might not sit well with people wanting absolute control over their own nations.

calling it now: the UE breaks into civil war. :p
 
call it United Earth. I really like that concept. one world is one nation, but with a lot of sub-nations. as usual, great job :)

It shall be called the Federated Union of Nations.

Go figure it spells "FUN."

but that might not sit well with people wanting absolute control over their own nations.

There are exit doors installed in all my games.
 
How would disputes be solved without war?
 
How would disputes be solved without war?

To be detailed in due time.

Let's just say I'm doing my best to really diversify the ability to fight someone and remaining subtle about it.

To me, war is to a game like murder is to a villain. It's so basic and so stock it has no appeal. Nay, there should be more creativity in the resolution of one's disputes and the pursuit of one's goals. See, the Bond villains got it somewhat right, with their overly elaborate death traps; where they err is assuming death to be the best end to achieve. Likewise, could there not be a better way to solve disputes than wars? I'm not talking chicken and gravypeace and love (yeah it makes for a nice ideal but for boring story); I'm talking backdoors dealing, treachery, all that good stuff. I want conflict to be more creative in how it enters the game, rather than the usual guns, germs and steel.

With MPV, I hope to maximise the avenues available for such creativity. I hope to put so many tools at players' disposal that the inability to send troops in won't even cross their mind.

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle, but in winning without ever fighting." -Sun Tzu
 
When Tani first told me the details of MPV, I was quite excited. Firstly for the game, which I think has the potential to combine the greatness of Realpolik Civ and MP together in one tasty package. Actually Tani, I would recommend reading through the Realpolitik series if you have the time or need the inspiration.

Secondly, I would take perverse pleasure, similar to the pleasure of reading ASoIaF then watching the TV Show with someone who hasn't, in seeing the reaction to this unexpected change. :p

Quick question Tani, do you have any idea when signups might open? Because this sounds really awesome and I cannot wait. :)
 
I'm savoring my free time and am somewhat occupied helping prepare a Sonic meetup to be held on September 14th; I also have no idea what my upcoming college schedule looks like.

So it's safe to say I won't start this until mid-September at the earliest.

===

MPV Development Diary – The Diplomatic Game (State Governments)

With the dissolution of militaries and the premise of independent nations, naturally the very first thing I needed to tackle was the subject of how players would conduct diplomacy. Fortunately there is already precedent within real life for such things; states of the United States of America regularly sign compacts between each other with regards to mutual goals, such as crime fighting or use of natural resources.

It thus remains possible for players to send money to each other or sign agreements; there are no holds barred on what they can do behind closed doors in theory. As the game develops, there are sure to be more state-to-state agreements, such as shared education or healthcare programs.

While it was often a joke in prior games that the UN kept players from practicing real diplomacy, in MPV the UN being the focus of one’s international policy is fully justified with the great deal of resources it wields. Of particular note is that the FUN’s Assembly is composed of two houses: the upper house in the Senate and a lower House in the Tribunate. The FUN basing much of its structure off the United States, it has an executive branch headed by the Consul, who is elected by preferential ballot every ten years – or five turns.

For the average player, the Senate and Consulate are of particular interest. In the Senate, each state has one delegate; with a large client network one can buy the votes of numerous Senators and wield great influence in this body.

The Consul is vested with several powers, one of the most noticeable being his veto that in the same vein as the United States’ version, requires two-thirds in both houses to overturn. Whether one wants to empower the Union or weaken it, the Consulate is an office one should covet. The Consul has Imperator as one of his titles of office, and by merit of this not only commands the military in the event of an emergency, but also appoints another player besides themselves to certain positions. The Consul appoints the Security Consul, who decides who to send the Federation’s earmarked espionage funds to, and the Magister of INTERPOL, who may assign INTERPOL missions of interest. It goes without saying that besides his overt responsibilities, the Consul’s ability to put friends in charge of Union espionage resources is a potent weapon. Doubly so as these positions are filled until they are assassinated, retire (unlikely), or are given a vote of no confidence when the Consul’s term expires. The Consul, as a final note, also proposes a budget to the Assembly every year; in the event of a budget failing last year’s percentages are used, so don’t try to stall that to weaken the Union.

However, within the historical context of the world (Presidencies often becoming dictatorships), and with a desire to promote competition, the Federation is actually semi-Presidential. While populists enjoy the Consulate, state power is vested in the Chancellor, appointed and recalled at whim by the Senate. As head of government, the Chancellor has his own range of powers to compensate for how easy it is to remove him. The Chancellor appoints the Censor, who dispenses UN healthcare funding, the Pontifex, who dispenses infrastructure aid, and the Philosopher, who dispenses education funding. Whereas the Consul has to go through a lengthy confirmation process in both houses, it is assumed the Chancellor represents the Senate, and so he only needs confirmation from the Tribunate.

The Consul and Chancellor together, without confirmation from both Houses (though the Houses may still impeach the candidate), appoint the Treasurer, who dictates how money generated from UN territories is spent for the benefit (i.e. for the most part WITHIN) of those territories.

There is, in sum, a great deal of logrolling and backdoors dealing to be had, and a great deal of advantage to be seized by any player who partakes in Union affairs. Even if a player does not partake a vote will be cast based on their personality (thus making it impossible for anti-UN players to simply ignore it to shut it down), so what does one have to lose? To put it cynically, the Union basically allows those who are within it to legally rob other players' of their money!

With the Senate, Consulate and all their various powers discussed…

Let us discuss the Tribunate, home to political parties.
 
One game you should look up is GrandKhan's Cold War game in NES which had a nuclear mechanic that'll probably decrease the chance of asshats being able to use nuclear weapons at will.

That's what caused the game to go downhill for me, because it became a race to get nuclear weapons because anybody, including a NGO that logically has no ability to launch missiles from submarines, could get them.

As for creating non-war, interesting, ways of dealing with people, you're really going to have to expand the economic side of the game. Especially considering that you're creating, more or less, a simulation of pre-Civil War America, with all the connotations that implies.
------

On another note, Dawn of Colonization II's ruleset is reaching a state I can be happy with. I decided not to go with a fresh start game and to go for a later start that's still pre-1835.
 
What you are proposing should not be an IOT. It is far closer to CiVK or RP as a game, and shares rather little with a traditional IOT.

That said, if it should be considered something other than an IOT, I find it to appear rather fun to play if done right. However as an IOT, it prevents essential aspects of any IOT such as direct warfare and nations themselves, and therefore while a fun game should not be allowed to call itself an IOT having thrown out several traditionally essential mechanics.

Going off of the perspective that this WILL be created as a forum game of some sort differentiated from an IOT, I would still point out several problems. One, votes based on personalities (likely decided by GM) could and will cause problems. You will base it off of your perception of somebody's personality and find out they have a problem with how you picked to vote for them. Hell, maybe they want to not vote at all in a sign of protest at the vote or something and it should be within their rights to not have to vote in something they don't want to.

Not to mention that if the Consul and Chancellor don't get along appointing a treasurer simply won't happen....

And your idea of making positions last until death, by whatever means death comes, or a vote of no confidence will simply ruin the spoils system that you seem to be encouraging via saying back room dealing and handing out titles is a major part of the game. If there are no titles to be given out without assassinations, then suddenly a Consul loses most of his power and influence, and nobody gets incentive for doing anything.

I may also point out that what the players represent is murky. Are we 'states', or the leaders of those states? Can we appoint fellow people from our states to rule their position of power in our name, making the Consul able to name himself to everything essentially? Or is each state only able to hold one office at a time?

Also, please change the name 'FUN'. Please.

And an idea: The first 3 people to sign up in the thread will be allowed to create the UN's constitution in the game and determine how it is made up instead of letting the GM do it beforehand. In addition to the first 3 should be a randomly selected player after a few days of sign ups, random determined by an RNG.
 
while a fun game should not be allowed to call itself an IOT having thrown out several traditionally essential mechanics.

We've already determined there is no real definition of IOT. CityIOT passes as an IOT despite the fact it had the same premise, just with a city instead of a globe.

You will base it off of your perception of somebody's personality and find out they have a problem with how you picked to vote for them. Hell, maybe they want to not vote at all in a sign of protest at the vote or something and it should be within their rights to not have to vote in something they don't want to.

Typing yea, nay, or abstain is not difficult. If a player wants to make sure their view is 100% accurate they should take the time to vote.

Not to mention that if the Consul and Chancellor don't get along appointing a treasurer simply won't happen....

Will have emergency provisions in case of that. Being Genre Savvy, I know some players will do everything to sabotage the Union, ergo I'm putting plenty of measures in its constitution to preempt them.

And your idea of making positions last until death, by whatever means death comes, or a vote of no confidence will simply ruin the spoils system that you seem to be encouraging via saying back room dealing and handing out titles is a major part of the game. If there are no titles to be given out without assassinations, then suddenly a Consul loses most of his power and influence, and nobody gets incentive for doing anything.

Most positions are still up for election every ten years along with the Consul, so it is very much possible to throw out an unpopular leader. At the end of the day politics is likely to pool around three poles; a coalition changing will change who's holding what position.

I may also point out that what the players represent is murky. Are we 'states', or the leaders of those states? Can we appoint fellow people from our states to rule their position of power in our name, making the Consul able to name himself to everything essentially? Or is each state only able to hold one office at a time?

Players are the governments of their state. It would be theoretically possible to fill every position with people from your country, but doing so would lead to a massive loss of popularity if not impeachment. No one's big enough to govern the world alone; alliances must be made and broken.

Also, please change the name 'FUN'. Please.

Nope.

When in doubt it can be called the Union or Federation.

And an idea: The first 3 people to sign up in the thread will be allowed to create the UN's constitution in the game and determine how it is made up instead of letting the GM do it beforehand. In addition to the first 3 should be a randomly selected player after a few days of sign ups, random determined by an RNG.

I consider independence a toy that gets misused, and so it is being taken away. The Federal UN stays.
 
Independence a toy that gets misused? So it must be taken away? /Ragequits before the game even begins out of sheer disbelief at such a tyrannical idea.
 
That said, if it should be considered something other than an IOT, I find it to appear rather fun to play if done right. However as an IOT, it prevents essential aspects of any IOT such as direct warfare and nations themselves, and therefore while a fun game should not be allowed to call itself an IOT having thrown out several traditionally essential mechanics.

Some of the first IOTs were not well versed in war and in fact were at there best outside of war. A IOT is a way and it can be without nations at time, as Tani points out with CityIOT and the existence of NGOs in games like the MP series. As for the mechanics: many IOTs tend to have a vast diversity of mechanics, from no mechanics of the classic IOTs to the RISK IOTs to the MP style IOTs to the Iron and Blood saga and such forth. The term IOT is, in many ways, is defined more as a grouping of games than a type of games.

And an idea: The first 3 people to sign up in the thread will be allowed to create the UN's constitution in the game and determine how it is made up instead of letting the GM do it beforehand. In addition to the first 3 should be a randomly selected player after a few days of sign ups, random determined by an RNG.

Very fair for those of different time zones and presuming the best results from those who sign up first. :rolleyes:
 
Independence a toy that gets misused? So it must be taken away? /Ragequits before the game even begins out of sheer disbelief at such a tyrannical idea.

I do adhere to a Don't Like; Don't Join policy, you know.

Some of the first IOTs were not well versed in war and in fact were at there best outside of war. A IOT is a way and it can be without nations at time, as Tani points out with CityIOT and the existence of NGOs in games like the MP series. As for the mechanics: many IOTs tend to have a vast diversity of mechanics, from no mechanics of the classic IOTs to the RISK IOTs to the MP style IOTs to the Iron and Blood saga and such forth. The term IOT is, in many ways, is defined more as a grouping of games than a type of games.

Pretty much. There is no real unifying feature apart from a geopolitical sim. MPV looks to be the same as other MP games, merely differing in that foreign policy tools are delegated to a supranational body.
 
Some of the first IOTs were not well versed in war and in fact were at there best outside of war. A IOT is a way and it can be without nations at time, as Tani points out with CityIOT and the existence of NGOs in games like the MP series. As for the mechanics: many IOTs tend to have a vast diversity of mechanics, from no mechanics of the classic IOTs to the RISK IOTs to the MP style IOTs to the Iron and Blood saga and such forth. The term IOT is, in many ways, is defined more as a grouping of games than a type of games.
Careful, Ailed, you're conflating "we don't know how war works so let's play it safe" with "you can't war even if you want to neener neener". One's a choice, the other's an imposition.
 
Careful, Ailed, you're conflating "we don't know how war works so let's play it safe" with "you can't war even if you want to neener neener". One's a choice, the other's an imposition.

True: it just the tale of music videos is of grand amusement. :p

I am hopeful MAD and IoM do well in war scenarios. What ever the case I am enjoy the war between the Imperium of Man and... everyone plus their pets. :D
 
Might be an imposition, but I consider it a good case of tyranny.

What does war add to the game, really? We had countless hours of fun WITHOUT beating each other over the head in the days of Old. Where the fun really was, was the tensions that could result in war but tended to boil over. You don't need war to make a game interesting, only conflict. They are in no way synonymous.

I don't think it's strange many successful businessman and politicians have read the Art of War. Conflict is conflict, regardless of whether it's in business, politics, the military, etc. There are so many other ways to fight someone besides becoming the government equivalent of a crime boss, and that's what I wish to explore.
 
There are exit doors installed in all my games.

This quote is amazing, I feel like it needs to be reposted. I am probably going to end up posting it in my signature.
 
Might be an imposition, but I consider it a good case of tyranny.

What does war add to the game, really? We had countless hours of fun WITHOUT beating each other over the head in the days of Old.

ill simply point you to this little game here. the war in that game was tons of fun, for both the player and the GM... nut its less fun if you lose, that is.

yeah its old, and probably obsolete, but, come on, that IOT was more focus on RP than games today.
 
Back
Top Bottom