Iran agrees to suspend uranium enrichment

[BasketCase]

The U.S. is currently moving in the opposite direction--we are becoming THE single dominant force in the world, and becoming more so as time passes. Take note that while the rest of the world is protesting recent actions by the U.S.--

--NOBODY IS ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

The U.S. is at the point where it can do what it wants to, with impunity.

Back to original topic: granted that I assumed Iran is trying to obtain nukes in order to protect itself. Frankly, building nukes in order to blow yourself up seems....extremely roundabout. Usually when one of us nukes our own city in a Civ3 game, it's because we accidentally clicked the wrong thingy....

I don't see any other plausible reason why Iran could be trying to go nuclear.

 

[Azadre]

The U.S. is currently moving in the opposite direction--we are becoming THE single dominant force in the world, and becoming more so as time passes. Take note that while the rest of the world is protesting recent actions by the U.S.--

--NOBODY IS ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

The U.S. is at the point where it can do what it wants to, with impunity.

Back to original topic: granted that I assumed Iran is trying to obtain nukes in order to protect itself. Frankly, building nukes in order to blow yourself up seems....extremely roundabout. Usually when one of us nukes our own city in a Civ3 game, it's because we accidentally clicked the wrong thingy....

I don't see any other plausible reason why Iran could be trying to go nuclear.

Economically, we're losing. People can, are, and will continue to hurt our economy by buying Chinese.

 

[10Seven]

1. If Iran or Australia want nuclear weapons, no one has the 'right' to deny them. To say otherwise is arrogance and elitism - two states of mind contemptable.

2. Iran has a better history - suggesting trustworthiness than the USA!

Who are you going to trust?

'It's WMD, no Democracy, no, dammit!'
or
What? Well, Iran hasn't done a God-darned thing. They haven't wiped anyone out, they haven't invaded anyone, they used nuclear weapons on anyone.

Please, this US/elitism is pathetic. The USA can currently do what it likes because no one else is annoyed enough to stop us. If half the remaining world economy DID decide to do something - like embargo or tarriffs, for instance, the US economy would almost completely, and without exageration, collapse.

And that's it for arrogance. The paper mache military machine, marching on hot air.

 

[Zeekater]

No.

Why should they then try be trustworthy since they won't be trusted whatever they do?
They shouldn't try?

 

[Zeekater]

The U.S. is currently moving in the opposite direction--we are becoming THE single dominant force in the world, and becoming more so as time passes. Take note that while the rest of the world is protesting recent actions by the U.S.--

--NOBODY IS ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

The U.S. is at the point where it can do what it wants to, with impunity.

Because if countries decide to sanction the US, they usually have some repercussions too.
So countries don't really care about the US invading this, or that. And the invaded countries are always the weak non-important countries with no power internationally.
Should the US decide to attack some important country it will be a whole other deal, other countries won't stand for that, team up with the attacked important country and a whole lot of trouble is ahead, for both sides.

Back to original topic: granted that I assumed Iran is trying to obtain nukes in order to protect itself. Frankly, building nukes in order to blow yourself up seems....extremely roundabout. Usually when one of us nukes our own city in a Civ3 game, it's because we accidentally clicked the wrong thingy....

I don't see any other plausible reason why Iran could be trying to go nuclear.

Defending yourself does not mean you can only bombard your own place. The US has nukes for defence, are they supposed to nuke their own cities during an attack? No, they'll bomb the attacking country, and sue for peace...

 

[amadeus]

Iran hasn't done a God-darned thing.

That's all.

 

[kronic]

As for now, any European support for a strike against Iran will be prevented, giving the Mullahs time to build and plot.

Well, actually, I don't see Europeans in favor of military actions against Iran no matter whether the Iranians stop or go on building nukes. Why should they be?

We may as well offer Iran the Sudetenland while we're at it.

Yeah, giving Iraq to the to Iranians could be a good idea.

 

[BasketCase]

Defending yourself does not mean you can only bombard your own place. The US has nukes for defence, are they supposed to nuke their own cities during an attack? No, they'll bomb the attacking country, and sue for peace...

That was the Soviet Union's strategy.

The entire point I was making was that the strategy didn't work.

If your goal is to defend yourself against nuclear attack, having your own nukes MIGHT work--if your opponent doesn't have SDI (which the U.S. very likely does!). Nukes simply caused the U.S. to use another angle of attack against the Soviet Union: the McDonald's invasion.....

The U.S. already has nukes, SDI, and McDonald's, making our defensive triad complete.



Edit: note to Zeekater--Iraq IS an important country. The oil thing.

(Is there a "drilling for oil" smiley anywhere?? Post if you have one, thanx)

 

[Damnyankee]

You cannot dictate the right of another nation to build and own weapons that you youreself own.

Lets transport you to the 80's, would you have supported the airstrike on a french built nuclear facility by the Israeles against Iraq?

 

[BasketCase]

Economically, we're losing. People can, are, and will continue to hurt our economy by buying Chinese.

We have been for decades. We buy stuff from other nations, and they buy stuf from us. And I ain't talking military hardware either.

I haven't seen any evidence of "we're losing". Dow Jones? Unemployment? Median earned income? I don't see any evidence we're heading downhill. I say all this about the U.S. economy going down the drain is a myth.

 

[Azadre]

We have been for decades. We buy stuff from other nations, and they buy stuf from us. And I ain't talking military hardware either.

I haven't seen any evidence of "we're losing". Dow Jones? Unemployment? Median earned income? I don't see any evidence we're heading downhill. I say all this about the U.S. economy going down the drain is a myth.

Trade Deficits and the weak dollar.

 

[CenturionV]

We have been for decades. We buy stuff from other nations, and they buy stuf from us. And I ain't talking military hardware either.

I haven't seen any evidence of "we're losing". Dow Jones? Unemployment? Median earned income? I don't see any evidence we're heading downhill. I say all this about the U.S. economy going down the drain is a myth.

A myth with an especially large following after the post-9/11 recession. I can still hear kerries silly "We lost 6 million jobs" or whatever the number was, I'm like yelling at the TV "Yeah, After an attack 100 times more economically damaging than pearl harbor you idiot!"

 

[Marla_Singer]

We buy stuff from other nations, and they buy stuf from us.

Actually, the US imports are nearly twice larger than the US exports, so we can decently say that globally speaking, the US buy stuff from other nations and that's it.

This is really impressive when you think about it. Germany is catching the US and will certainly become the 1st Exporters worldwide before the United States in the upcoming years. Knowing that the German population is about 4 times smaller than the American population, it is rather surprizing.


The Top 5 Importers :

1. 
   United States : $1,260,000 million
2. 
   Germany : $585,000 million
3. 
   China : $397,400 million
4. 
   United Kingdom: $363,600 million
5. 
   Japan : $346,600 million

The Top 5 Exporters :

1. 
   United States : $714,500 million
2. 
   Germany : $696,900 million
3. 
   Japan : $447,100 million
4. 
   China : $436,100 million
5. 
   France : $346,500 million

Source :

• Imports (CIA World Factbook)
• Exports (CIA World Factbook)

 

[Marla_Singer]

A myth with an especially large following after the post-9/11 recession. I can still hear kerries silly "We lost 6 million jobs" or whatever the number was, I'm like yelling at the TV "Yeah, After an attack 100 times more economically damaging than pearl harbor you idiot!"

If the 9/11 has hit the US economy, it's more psychologically than materialistically.

Of course the damages of the September 11th had been huge. A huge part of Manhattan's downtown reduced in ashes and the Pentagon severely knocked. However, if you compare that with an earthquake as those which happened in San Francisco in the past, I guess they are smaller.

No, the economical costs of the 9/11 are more largely due to the shocks and the new uncertainty towards the future... but the 9/11 is certainly not a main cause of the economical slowdown.

 

[JohnRM]

The Soviet Union had nuclear weapons.

The Soviet Union no longer exists.

Conclusion: nuclear weapons are NOT going to protect Iran. If the U.S. or anybody else is determined to wipe Iran off the map, the wiping will happen. It will just be slower.

Are you kidding? Iran has supported terrorists for decades! I am not willing to take the chance that they decide not to hand off a nuclear weapon to them. If they continue to seek to acquire nuclear weapons, I would be for a full-scale air strike.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Are you kidding? Iran has supported terrorists for decades! I am not willing to take the chance that they decide not to hand off a nuclear weapon to them. If they continue to seek to acquire nuclear weapons, I would be for a full-scale air strike.

Well, there's no real reason to panic. You live in a world where Bin Ladin is hosted by a nuclear power after all.

Of course I agree that it's not a reason to let Iran getting the bomb... but the idea that Iran would directly drop one on Tel Aviv or Washington once they would have it is both irrational and paranoid. If Iran wants the bomb, it's to prevent any invasion, not to nuke anyone.

 

[CenturionV]

Well, there's no real reason to panic. You live in a world where Bin Ladin is hosted by a nuclear power after all.

Of course I agree that it's not a reason to let Iran getting the bomb... but the idea that Iran would directly drop one on Tel Aviv or Washington once they would have it is both irrational and paranoid. If Iran wants the bomb, it's to prevent any invasion, not to nuke anyone.

Yeah thats the problem though, we don't want them to get the bomb so we can invade, to prevent them from getting the bomb. Whenever we want. Basically, either we will invade and take over, or they will get the bomb and be the north korea of the middle east.

 

[TheTruth]

I can't believe all the warmongering I'm hearing. Do you people actually listen to yourselves?

Why would Iran give a terrorist a nuke? Do you realize what a nuke detination would do to the world? How would Iran know that the nuke they just sold would not be used on Tahran? Don't you know that the uranium used in any nuke can be traced back to its origin?

Let say one of those nukes that is targeted for Iran just happens to miss it's target, we all know how inaccurate these long range bombs can be, and landed in China. What do you think the Chinese would do? Just smile and say "we accept the US apology for killing 100 thousand of our people, go on and try not to let it happen again". Yeah right.

I'm glad irrational thinking people don't have there hand on the button. Atleast I hope not....

 

[Winner]

As i said before: sanctioning Iran is a nice way how to make them hate us. Sanctions would only hit common Iranians, not their government.

Also a strike on them is out of question - US seems not able to pacify Iraq, many times smaller and not so rocky country.

So if you don't want to nuke them, be quiet and let us solve our own problem Focus rather on North Koreans, they are many times more dangerous and oppressive than Iran. Perhaps they would appreciate your "help" more.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Back on topic

The Iran decided to suspend the uranium enrichment, which could also have served civil purposes, we don´t know if the enrichment was aimed to build nuclear weapons at this point (I believe yes but there are no proofs of a nuclear weapons program made public yet). This means that the IAEO (it´s the abbreviation in german) will start its controls again. If they are hindered, sanctions will follow or even some military action.
The only reason for the escalation of the conflict was the involvement of the US, because the Iran regime didn´t want to give in and "lose its face". If your archenemy makes demands you say no, even if it is utterly stupid. I think the probability that a regime uses a nuclear weapon is zero, they would sign their own death penalty with it. If they had such weapons they would never give them to terrorists because: they are expensive as hell and such a big deal will come to public. The No.1 interest of any regime is to stay in charge, anything that threatens this goal is a big no-no.