Iran refuses EU's nuclear offer

[10Seven]

It wouldn't seem to be in the iranian government's interest to arm a terrorist group with a nuclear weapon - it would, however, be in their interest to arm themselves with a nuclear weapon.

Given the anti-iranian rhetoric coming, particularly, from the USA, if I was an Iranian, I would most certainly want a nuclear weapon, if only to protect myself.

 

[CannoedGerbil]

Ah yes, it's all America's fault that their a radical Muslim government intent on gaining nuclear weapons. It's always America's fault.

I'll tell you what, if they build nuclear weapons, and give them to terrorists and an American city get's nuked there's going to be hell to pay. Literally. Can you say "Iran is a radioactive pond of glass"?

I think a quote from last night's Battlestar Galactica is in order: "Frak this, I'm sending in the Marines."

I wasn't blaming the Americans. I was saying that Iran believes it has the upper hand because they don't think the US and EU are in a position to respond. If we show them we are then maybe they'll be more willing to talk.

 

[Elrohir]

Why would any government arm a terrorist group with a nuclear weapon? This is a myth dreamed up by the US government and the script writers of the TV show ‘24’. The principle of mutually assured destruction applies regardless of whether a weapon is used directly or indirectly. If a nuclear weapon was ever used would be a mountain of evidence pointing to the offending parties. Tehran does not wish to be nuked .

Ok: The Iranian government is controlled by radical Muslims. Al Qaeda is controlled by radical Muslims. The Iranian government hates America. Al Qaeda hates America. What better way to hurt America than to help a terrorist group destroy one of America's cities? The psycological impact would be enormous, both in the Muslim world and America.

 

[Godwynn]

Godwynn
The Voice of Reason

ahhhh the irony

I find my position very reasonable. Iran is the nation I most distrust, with North Korea a close second.

Its no use hiding the fact that they want to build a nuclear weapon. I want to take care of this before it becomes dangerous for Americans, Iraq, Israel, or anyone else.

 

[Godwynn]

This aggressive attitude, typical amongst Americans is exactly why Iran feels forced into a corner. They can not afford to wait for America to prepare an attack/invasion. The need to produce a deterrent whist you are still busy.

Would you rather let Iran arm the terrorists with a nuclear weapon? Aggression is sometimes (but not often) warranted.

 

[The Yankee]

Ok: The Iranian government is controlled by radical Muslims. Al Qaeda is controlled by radical Muslims. The Iranian government hates America. Al Qaeda hates America. What better way to hurt America than to help a terrorist group destroy one of America's cities? The psycological impact would be enormous, both in the Muslim world and America.

Because Iran as a whole is not suicidal like much of al-Qaeda. I agree that they should not have the weapons, but I'm finding it harder to believe they'll use it for first strike capabilities or handing it off to a terrorist group when that same group could turn around and destroy Iran. The Iranian government and al-Qaeda both hate America, but they're not one and the same. Besides, would the Iranian poohbahs want to risk its grip on power further by having widespread destruction on their doorstep? The Iranian people of all stripes won't stand for that.

 

[Elrohir]

I wasn't blaming the Americans. I was saying that Iran believes it has the upper hand because they don't think the US and EU are in a position to respond. If we show them we are then maybe they'll be more willing to talk.

I was just being cynical. It seems like no matter what happens, it's always America's fault somehow. Either we caused it, or we didn't stop it, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Because Iran as a whole is not suicidal like much of al-Qaeda. I agree that they should not have the weapons, but I'm finding it harder to believe they'll use it for first strike capabilities or handing it off to a terrorist group when that same group could turn around and destroy Iran. The Iranian government and al-Qaeda both hate America, but they're not one and the same. Besides, would the Iranian poohbahs want to risk its grip on power further by having widespread destruction on their doorstep? The Iranian people of all stripes won't stand for that.

Notice that I didn't say the Iranian people were Islamic Extremeists. I carefully said their government was. I actually trust the Iranian people as a whole more than the people in most other Middle Eastern countries, a lot of them actually like America. I'm not afraid of the common people, I'm afraid that the government, which is rabidly anti-American, will finally do something drastic.

 

[The Yankee]

Right. And because of that, I don't think the Iranian GOVERNMENT would risk its hold on power because of it. Because even though not enough people have stood up to oppose them when their grip on power was waning in the last decade, Iranians of all kinds will surely overthrown this crowd in power should they do something that risks or takes away the lives of many civilians.

Al-Qaeda doesn't have that constraint, however.

 

[dvandyke]

Ok: The Iranian government is controlled by radical Muslims. Al Qaeda is controlled by radical Muslims. The Iranian government hates America. Al Qaeda hates America. What better way to hurt America than to help a terrorist group destroy one of America's cities? The psycological impact would be enormous, both in the Muslim world and America.

Britons are white Christians, Nazis are white Christians. Oh my god, we are going to invade Poland . Jesus Christ, the Iranian government are not al-Qeada. I need you to explain you mean by ‘radical Muslims’ but don’t believe that they are that either.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Iranians don't want to build nukes in order to use it, they want to build nukes in order to make it sure to not be attacked. So no, there's no chance any US cities will be nuked by a terrorist in case Iranians have the bomb. Such a thing would be against the Iranian mollahs' interests as Yankee well explained.

However, a world where Iran would have the bomb would indeed be a lot more dangerous. And the reason for this is exactly because we wouldn't be in position to threaten to invade Iran anymore... no matter what Iran would do. Knowing that Iran's regime seems to be strongly supported by the Iraqi population if we believe last elections, well, Iran could make talk about itself once more in the future.

What a waste all this is knowing how interesting is the Persian culture and that, after all, Iran is the country producing the best pistachios in the world...

 

[The Yankee]

Well, if a situation ever called for it, Marla's right that it would make it incredibly hard to have any operations in Iran. Although the population at large is mostly pro-Western, they're also very nationalistic and would support the use of nuclear weapons if it was seen as protecting the country. Some sneaky first strike wouldn't convince the population of that, even if the regime puts out a propaganda campaign that makes the 2004 Presidential election look like a high-school debate.

The Iranian people are aware of what's around them, don't underestimate that.

 

[dvandyke]

The Iranian people are aware of what's around them, don't underestimate that.

What are around the Iranians are hundreds of thousands of US troops and two regional rivals with nuclear capabilities in Pakistan and Israel. No wonder they feel threatened and a need to level the playing field. The way to stop nuclear proliferation is for the established powers to destroy their own weapons.

 

[The Yankee]

The American soldiers on their borders can't be much of a threat to Iran right now. They're tied down in their own operations, it's not as if they're looking across the border and making obscene gestures at Iranian border guards. Pakistan's weapons are mostly intended for India, even though Iran and Pakistan have their disagreements, Pakistan has a radical militant problem of its own and wouldn't want to drop a nuke on Tehran. Israel...well...if Israel had wanted to nuke Iran, it would have done so already.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I wonder if all this won't pressure us to intervene militarily in Iran. If we want to intimidate mollahs who would persist in their choice, we should get prepared to make of this a credible alternative. Well, we haven't reached such a level yet fortunately.

 

[The Yankee]

But who is going to put the pressure on Iran? The EU doesn't look prepared to even hint at it yet. The US can talk tough but it's harder to back it up now. At this time, Iran can just ignore it all.

 

[Marla_Singer]

But who is going to put the pressure on Iran? The EU doesn't look prepared to even hint at it yet. The US can talk tough but it's harder to back it up now. At this time, Iran can just ignore it all.

There has been no draft yet.




j/k

 

[The Yankee]

You're right. I'm 20 years old now. I'll walk up to Iran's border and shout "Hey! Want a piece of me!? Huh!? Punk!" That'll work. Weapons program disabled immediately. Or they'll just waste all their nukes on me. Same result.

 

[kronic]

Why do you guys think that the Iranian people are pro-Western? I don't think they are, but they are certainly not dumb (nor is their government).

 

[Jerry Kraut]

Even if they would obtain nukes, they wouldn't be so plain dumb to use them.
I think they their government feels kinda threatened by its neighboors... and America... so just let 'em play with their little nukes... they won't use them for a first strike but they can feel save with 'em... 'cause nobody wants to attack someone whose capable to obliterate a whole city by just droping a single bomb. that's why the cold war didn't emerge into a full scale world war.
they don't attack, they won't be attacked.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Even if they would obtain nukes, they wouldn't be so plain dumb to use them.
I think they their government feels kinda threatened by its neighboors... and America... so just let 'em play with their little nukes... they won't use them for a first strike but they can feel save with 'em... 'cause nobody wants to attack someone whose capable to obliterate a whole city by just droping a single bomb. that's why the cold war didn't emerge into a full scale world war.
they don't attack, they won't be attacked.

And what if a nuclear Iran would intervene in Iraq against the United States ?