Iraq: Choose your presidential options.

[Light Cleric]

edit: Also, vague UN resolutions condemning the violence but not actually doing anything productive are a must.

There are other kinds?

 

[kramerfan86]

Stay out of it, anything we do will just enrage people against the US yet again. Iraq has weak leadership, no reason to float support for them which would just much recruiting easier for the terrorists. Good chance for Iran to show regional leadership, they are already on the correct side in Syria so they can go 2 for 2 here.

 

[Bootstoots]

There are other kinds?

Some of the more strongly-worded ones are used as an excuse to go to war, and others result in lightly-armed soldiers from random countries running around in blue helmets in the war zone. It should be a resolution that doesn't involve those things.

 

[Dostayer]

Hmmm, this group wants to build one state that includes Syria and Iraq, Like the "good old times" of the Caliphs (including the same Religious Fanaticism), with Sunni Sharia Law, of course Iran will support the current government, such state will be one of the most dangerous things for them (Sunni and Shiite hates each other with passion)...
You can have no negotiations with such groups.

 

[Borachio]

You can have no negotiations with such groups.

Why not? Are they not human, too?

 

[Dostayer]

Why not? Are they not human, too?

They are fanatics as the Nazis were, diplomacy won't help here.

 

[CavLancer]

I can't imagine a radical Sunni takeover would give Iran significantly more influence than they already have. Let them deal with it, better than getting into any more trouble than we already have. If the Iraqis aren't going to stand up and put down a bunch of people so nutty that Al-Qaeda told them "yeah, you guys are insane, get out" then what's the point of propping them up?

Something to do with Iran supporting their own flavor of terrorists. However, as Cutlass said there is no option that works well for the US.

 

[Formaldehyde]

They are fanatics as the Nazis were, diplomacy won't help here.

Which is a completely different fanaticism than that exhibited by Netanyahu and others, for instance.

 

[Dostayer]

Which is a completely different fanaticism than that exhibited by Netanyahu and others, for instance.

You forget that this organization wants to return to the Caliphs period, including religion and rule..
and I don't see any Christian or Muslim fleeing from Israel.. unlike in the other states in the Middle east...
And seriously, what Israel has to do with this.

 

[Light Cleric]

I'm almost remotely shocked that Israel got drug into this discussion....

Something to do with Iran supporting their own flavor of terrorists. However, as Cutlass said there is no option that works well for the US.

Again, this doesn't seem worse than the current situation where Iran has a great deal of influence with the Iraqi government. I don't see a good outcome here regardless of what we do. I'm not sure what the other Sunni states in the region would do if ISIS was able to take Baghdad and overthrow the government, either, since as I mentioned before these guys are certifiable maniacs.

Some of the more strongly-worded ones are used as an excuse to go to war, and others result in lightly-armed soldiers from random countries running around in blue helmets in the war zone. It should be a resolution that doesn't involve those things.

Well I'd lump those into the unproductive category too especially the last one But I understand what you were getting at, yeah.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You forget that this organization wants to return to the Caliphs period, including religion and rule..
and I don't see any Christian or Muslim fleeing from Israel.. unlike in the other states in the Middle east...

What influence do you think a group with 10,000 people is going to have? Why do you think the Sunnis in a predominately Sunni area did little or nothing to stop other Sunnis from assuming control from the supposedly secular government run by Shia?

And seriously, what Israel has to do with this.

You mentioned fanatics who are supposedly incapable of resolving matters rationally. I pointed out an Israeli one who actually has quite a track record of acting irrationally while refusing to resolve matters in an adult manner. I think Netanyahu is a vastly worse influence on the region. YMMV.

 

[Dostayer]

What influence do you think a group with 10,000 people is going to have?

You mentioned fanatics who are supposedly incapable of resolving matters rationally. I pointed out an Israeli one. I think Netanyahu is a vastly worse influence on the region. YMMV.

They won't stay that weak for long.
And Netanyahu isn't even near as bad influence, in his former term he transferred Hebron into the PA control and already declared that he wants 2 states...
And most importantly: He isn't Driven by religious zeal...

*BTW:And the last time I checked, Abu-Mazen is the one who refuses to speak...

 

[Formaldehyde]

I worry about those who actually do have immense military power, instead of a handful of Sunni insurgents that most everybody knew would eventually rebel in Iraq as they did in Syria with the direct aid of our so-called allies. YMMV.

 

[gay_Aleks]

What's the chance, that the president of Iran, while trying to "restore control and help his dear ally" decides to stick for a bit longer?

Also, I've kind of enjoyed how people have started liking Iran. Or, instead of calling them an evil regime which wants to steal all your elaborate pastries, they're an alternative. Or a cure.

 

[Dostayer]

I worry about those who actually do have immense military power, instead of a handful of Sunni insurgents that most everybody knew would eventually rebel in Iraq as they did in Syria with the direct aid of our so-called allies. YMMV.

I don't get what YMMV means

And look the neighborhood that we are in, to the southeast: Egypt, with the Bordering Half-Island is in total anarchy (and never being buddies). to the northeast: Syria, a collapsing country with each party more murderous than the other. To the Northwest: Lebanon, a fractured state effectively run by Hezbollah (Terror organization) and torn from the inside by ethnic and religions tension.
The only stable neighbor is Jordan.

And concerning the West Bank: a place when many children dream is to be Shahids is a threat, no matter how you try to turn it (the unfortunate truth), and generally hostile population with a long history of terror acts.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What's the chance, that the president of Iran, while trying to "restore control and help his dear ally" decides to stick for a bit longer?

Also, I've kind of enjoyed how people have started liking Iran. Or, instead of calling them an evil regime which wants to steal all your elaborate pastries, they're an alternative. Or a cure.

Ironically, Iran has been facing the very same pressure for decades now. They have been vilified by the West as being religious fanatics who want to destroy the world as we know it. Now they are supposed to help defeat another group which is being portrayed in exactly the very same terms.

I don't get what YMMV means

Sorry. It means your mileage may vary. That you might very well have a different opinion than mine. But you could have determined the same thing by doing a google search.

And look the neighborhood that we are in, to the southeast: Egypt, with the Bordering Half-Island is in total anarchy (and never being buddies). to the northeast: Syria, a collapsing country. To the Northwest: Lebanon, a fractured state effectively run by Hezbollah (Terror organization) and torn from the inside by ethnic and religions tension.

And here you are living in a country which has by far the most powerful military force in the region, which isn't being directly threatened by anybody, and which hasn't been for over 40 years now.

And concerning the West Bank: a place when many children dream is to be Shahids is a threat, no matter how you try to turn it (the unfortunate truth), and generally hostile population with a long history of terror acts.

Have you ever thought about no longer imprisoning their children for throwing rocks while Israeli children do the very same thing without punishment? Allowing them to lead their own lives in their own country promised to them by the very same UN resolution which created your own country?

 

[Dostayer]

They refused for such state (at least their grandfathers did), they wanted all of the land west to the Jordan river and lose, and nobody wanted to take care of them.
And those who went imprisoned are mostly those who were involved in terror acts against Israeli citizens... Including those who were released as Homage to the PA...

It's better to kill such things when they are small rather than let them grow into something bigger.


And someone will win this whole thing, and most likely one of the religious fanatics organizations (there is more than one), and they will own a state that is much bigger than us...

 

[gay_Aleks]

Or, alternatively, the tried and tested solution which any Byzantine would tell you...

Divide and Conquer, religious fanatics style.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

I vote #1. As US President, it's important not to have Iran and extremists gain a foothold in Iraq. But of course, that doesn't actually benefit the average American but will please the Military Industrial Complex.

 

[Light Cleric]

If anyone's curious, this was a translation of salient points of rules posted by ISIS in Nineveh published on Twitter by a reporter for Arabic Al Aan TV. She also posted the original document if anyone can read Arabic and wants to read it for themselves(I sure as hell can't). I copy/pasted her tweets.

She also has some photos of some of ISIS' brutal killings of Iraqi soldiers, but they are quite graphic, I am not linking to them and you look at them at your own risk.

ISIS has published its first set of new rules for the province of #Nineveh. In following tweets I will translate highlights. (1/11)

ISIS rules: For those asking who R u? We R soldiers of Islam &took on our responsibility to bring back glory of the Islamic Caliphate. 2/ 11

ISIS rules: Money we took from Safavid govnmnt is now public. Only Imam of Muslims can spend it. Any1 who steals hand will be cut. (3/11)

ISIS rules: We ask all Muslims to perform prayers on time in the mosques ( 4/11)

ISIS rules: We warn tribal leaders and Sheikhs not to “work with government and be traitors.” (5/11)

ISIS rules: No drugs, no alcohol and no cigarettes allowed. (6/11)

ISIS rules: For the police, soldiers &other kafir institutions, u can repent. We opened special places that will allow you to repent. (7/11)

ISIS rules: Gatherings, carrying flags (other than that of Islamic state) &carrying guns not allowed. God ordered us to stay united. (8/11)

ISIS rules: Our position on Shrines and graves is clear. All to be destroyed basically. (9/11)

ISIS rules: For women, dress decently and wear wide clothes. Only go out if needed. (10/11)

ISIS rules: Ppl u tried secular rulings (republic, Baathist, Safavides) &it pained u. Now is time 4 Islamic state Imam Abu Bakr El Qurashi.