Iron and Blood: A Change of Worlds - Signups/Pregame Threads

[Jehoshua]

I wonder how did they get to Holland and conquer it?

By water obviously . Anyways England being wildly successful in the third anglo-dutch war would be a reasonable historical alteration no? That was the one where they were in an unholy alliance with the French, so presuming the French were more successful in this timeline than OTL, and the English were more ambitious, England could've lucked out on conquering the Dutch and taking out their chief commercial and maritime rivals in Europe.

-

@GM: With regards to Choson's history, the point of divergence goes back a bit further than you stated (basically I'm having the Ming dynasty last a few decades longer than it did OTL, with the time constituting the period when Korea conquered the Manchu/Jurchens) and I hope this is alright. Its a more natural point of divergence than 1700 at any rate. Incidentally I've also updated my history a bit to account for the "Celestial Empire' (which I'm rationalising as a consolidation of the south after about a century of warring states post-Ming under a single imperial dynasty [which I'm calling the Shun Dynasty, after the rebels that toppled the Ming before being immediately squashed by the Manchu Qing dynasty])

 

[Civ'ed]

When writing your country’s history, the Point of Divergence is “roughly 1700”, so you are free to play with events between 100 – 150 years prior to 1831 within the realms of plausibility. It is recommended that you work with other players in such worldbuilding exercises.

Anglo dutch war would be too early

 

[Jehoshua]

fooey, the end of the third anglo-dutch war is only 7 years short of 150 years before present and the fourth if you wanted to go there (instead of the third) is well within the period. Although its less plausible as a divergence point imo.

 

[Civ'ed]

fooey, the end of the third anglo-dutch war is only 7 years short of 150 years before present and the fourth if you wanted to go there (instead of the third) is well within the period. Although it lacks the plot element of an unholy French alliance iirc.

easier way: William III doesn't die in 1702, and the netherlands and britain become one and the same thing

 

[Jehoshua]

But that nullifies the whole plot point of the dutch east india company reclaiming the fatherland from british occupiers that was the context of my suggestion. Also it would be less interesting.

 

[Civ'ed]

But that nullifies the whole plot point of the dutch east india company reclaiming the fatherland from british occupiers that was the context of my suggestion. Also it would be less interesting.

If the brits occupy in the 17th century, then there's no reason for the VOC to even exist after the fact.

The VOC won't go defunct until 1799 IOTL, and even then, the very name of the United Eastindia Company implies its function was in the East, not in the Netherlands.

Thirdly, "less interesting". Care to actually explain? switching one war around doesn't make it interesting.

 

[Jehoshua]

The VOC was founded in 1602 and had Batavia as capital and port by 1619, ergo it already had eastern territory by which it could have perpetuated existence post 1675 in the event of a British takeover in the third anglo-dutch war.

That its function is in the east is an irrelevant point to the plot element of "reclaiming the homeland from British traitors" as that element is entirely at the discretion of the player, and at any rate its function being in the east hardly negates a dutch interest in dutch affairs in the event of an English conquest. Indeed it is quite reasonable to think that an English conquest would catalyse the emergence of the VOC as an independent power with interests in the homeland.

Your proposition would simply have the incorporation of the Netherlands under British rule occur through dynastic succession (Wills leaves an heir) simultaneously rendering null any historical interest/dramatic tension the VOC might have in Holland, since the whole unification thing would be completely unobjectionable and legit in all ways conceivable. Seeing as our VOC player referred to his desire to reclaim Holland, this not only ignores what he said, but also generally makes everything less interesting from a narrative perspective imo since there is a complete absence of any historical international dramatic tension that could proceed into the present. Ergo, its very mundane, at least an alt-hist war narrative would provide a backdrop should our VOC player decide to press forward with revanchist European ambitions/sentiments (and war is generally more exciting than peace anyway)

 

[erez87]

I don't really have a plan to take over the Netherlands, especially now that the Netherlands is a part of Britain. The company's main aim is money, not freedom of the homeland or anything.

 

[Terran Empress]

Um, you know what, why don't we have the VOC player come up with the history of the Netherlands.

I feel like that would be better and that you two are fighting over something that isn't even 100% decided. IMO

 

[erez87]

I really don't mind others explaining my part of the history. It isn't an era I know much about anyway...

 

[cpm4001]

Assuming a peaceful integration of the Netherlands into Britain, couldn't it have been that the VOC split was relatively peaceful at first, and only recently have more radical elements called for the reclamation of the homeland? Or perhaps the VOC did object to the British efforts to incorporate the Netherlands, and maybe being more along the lines of OTL's BEI in this timeline the VOC had the economic strength/private military force to secure the split?
Just throwing some suggestions out there.

 

[christos200]

Or the British hired Greek mercenaries to take over Netherlands.

 

[Grandkhan]

Its more likely that the Netherlands and the UK are in personal union, which means that the VOC is still around in its original capacity as a Dutch company. Either way the VOC was all but autonomous for most of its history so having the Netherlands be in personal union with another power shouldn't affect its functioning much.

 

[Tee Kay]

Basic Timeline:

1688: Glorious Revolution, William III of the Netherlands becomes King of England, Jacobite Wars in Scotland
1707: Formal federation of England and the United Netherlands (so-called “Acts of Union&#8221
1712: Fall of the Ming Dynasty, expansion of Korea into northern China
1714: Treaty of Utrecht, Separation of the Crowns ends the War of Spanish Succession, South American possessions assigned to Castile, New Spain assigned to Aragon
1720: Exhausted by long periods of war, the Ottoman Empire succumbs to Greek rebellion, reestablishment of the Roman Empire; the Bey of Algiers declares independence
1754: Start of the Seven Years War
1763: End of the Seven Years War, France retains control of Canada but cedes Louisiana to Aragon
1776: Canadian War of Independence begins
1789: French Revolution begins, France recognises Canadian independence
1798: French conquest of Egypt led by Napoleon Bonaparte
1799: Coup d’etat of 18 Brumaire, led by Emmanuel Joseph Sieyes and Barthelemy Joubert, new constitution enacted.
1804: Latin American Wars of Independence, Napoleon declares himself Pharaoh of Egypt
1807: Republique Nouvelle-Babylonien established, with Napoleonic marshal Michel Ney as High Judge, New Granada became independent as the Republic of Colombia, French revolutionary armies win victories in Germany leading to the Treaty of Tilsit, creating the Republic of Westphalia
1808: Franco-Egyptian invasion of Algeria, fall of the Algerian monarchy, beginning of the Algerian Republic
1809: La Plata declares its independence
1810: Peace of Tripoli ends hostilities between Egypt and Algeria.
1813: Patagonian Republic declares its independence, German states rebels against French domination culminating in the Battle of the Nations at Leipzig.
1815: End of the French Republic, end of the French Revolutionary Wars, Louis XVIII returns to France as constitutional monarch, Germany unifies and gains French territories on the Rhine, Sino-Korean War ends in stalemate
1821: Death of Napoleon I, his son becomes Pharaoh, control of country passes to grand vizier Muhammad Ali, defeat of Aragonese forces in New Spain is followed by the Mexican Civil War

That's about right?

Obviously Napoleon can't be in Germany in 1807 so I tweaked German history a bit.

 

[Tee Kay]

Changes to "Techs":

- Techs now renamed "investments"
- No more "levels", instead investment costs are as follows:
- Economic investment costs 5IC
- Military investment costs 5IC +1 for each turn completed +1 for every two units you control
- Civics investment costs 5IC +3 for each turn completed +2 for each non-core province +5 for each occupied province

Investment still carries over between turns and you can still buy more than one investments per turn at the same price

Now on to writing up the update. Will start the game in a few days hopefully.

Thank you for your patience.

 

[cpm4001]

No worries about any delay. The history, so far as I can tell, looks good.

 

[Terran Empress]

Will start the game in a few days hopefully.

/cough cough

 

[Sonereal]

A few days Austalian time.