Oh? Such as?
Is Britain about to leave the EU?
- Thread starter Mega Tsunami
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Oh? Such as?
Using that excuse, 23% of the world should be desperate to join the EU, given that we conquered/colonised all of that in the first place!
What's more, we were invaded, constantly, but the last successful invasion by a foreign power was in 1066.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Well, I dunno.
Doesn't the EU cost the UK 10 billion a year to stay in it, already?
London is more like Amsterdam than like rural Yorkshire. And the countryside in Yorkshire is more like that in Noord-Brabant than like London.
From London, Newcastle is as far away as Paris.
And then I'm not even talking about Belfast...
EnglishEdward
Deity
This is interesting. The way I see it is that Germany has over
the last 70 years, benefited from six critical advantages:
(a) Hard work.
(b) No equivalent of the City of London to loot its manufacturing
and over value the currency.
(c) Lower per capita military spending.
(d) Cultural resistance to the negative aspects of Anglo-Saxon financial capitalism
(e) Been able to get the EU to negotiate trade to benefit itself.
(f) Had its currency, the Euro, kept down by lower exports from rest of Euro block.
And for the matter, the world ocean surrounds everything, even continents. We're as much connected to the Philippines from Bordeaux than we are from Liverpool.
Yes, but France has land borders with Belgium, Germany, Italy and
Spain so it is far more connected to them than the UK is.
EnglishEdward
Deity
That latter six word expression is a contradiction in itself.
It is almost as funny as "united in diversity".
What exactly is the Channel Tunnel when it's at home? We're just as connected to France as Germany is, but the difference is that we have a small bit of shallow water covering the border instead.
I would agree. But let's read on:
How does this influence exports positively exactly?
Say what?
b) and c) actually suggest the UK should have exchanged the pound for the euro,
Your argument seems to be that Germany has not been playing fair by being a EU member - and your conclusion is that the UK should leave the EU. Something doesn't quite add up here.
Well, I dunno. Source?
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
But - I'm making a pre-emptive stab for you - these figures are just plain wrong.
Still, what can one expect from a website called "funfacts.org"?
EnglishEdward
Deity
The first point (hard work) boosted German exports, the second and
third points substantially hindered UK exports.
Germany has merely been looking after its own interests.
The other member states in the Eurozone let them get away with it.
I am not criticising Germany for simply being smarter in that matter.
My conclusion is that the EU has not worked, and there is
therefore little reason for the UK to remain in the EU.
Mega Tsunami
Emperor
.Considering the amount of time I see it, it seems the whole anglosphere is unable to get that "viva" is spanish, not french
That’s very embarrassing. But maybe it proves my point that we are not European, we are Anglos. And ne’er the twain shall meet.
Except on a footie field or in Eurovision where we get soundly beaten of course.
So the effective coup detat on Italy and Greece where elected prime ministers were toppled by the EU in favour of Eurocrats was all very democratic?
And the way Germany forced Greece to effectively destroy its economy was very democratic?
Language, outlook (free trade vs protectionism), economy (ours is invariably out of step with the EU and in step with America) etc etc.
England and Scotland on the other hand speak the same language, have similar economic outlooks and our economies are pretty much in sync.
It's not an excuse, it's a fact. Countries around Germany no longer want to be invaded by Germany and Germans no longer want Germany to invade countries around them. And one way is to shackle Germany within the EU.
Quite. That was rather a long time ago, which was pretty much my point.
Well, to some people simple things really are simple:
Very simple, as you can see. Unfortunately, not one of these statements conform to any facts. Perhaps you should try again using actual facts.
Almost half of referendum Scots would disagree with you. But apart from that, those are very simplistic and not very accurate statements to begin with.
Very simple. Also not very true. The current EU developed from an agreement between Germany and France. Germany has also unilaterally signed peace agreements with former WW II enemies. So the initiative seems to have been rather with Germany than with 'countries around Germany'. You also seem to confuse a few other issues. Originally, the EC precursor was primarily economic in nature. Political integration has been (for understandable reasons) much slower and much less effective. Which is why the EU today is still nothing more than a confederation between independent states. As anyone can see who follows day to day European politics, where every major decision is a compromise between various (national) interests. Sort of like in national governments.
So, in short, things are not that simple.
'Hard work' doesn't boost exports. In fact, it's a rather vague statement. Secondly, Britain spending more on defense than Germany (does it ?) has nothing to do with a country's export position.
So you're saying Germany is looking after its interest. But 'let's leave the EU, because it's not working'(?) hardly follows from that. The conclusion would be Britain should work harder looking after its interests. Perhaps opting out of several EU concepts was not in the interest of Britain after all? It's a possibility you seem to ignore altogether.
More appropriately, your conclusion should be that Britain hasn't been looking after its interests in the EU. (Although I'm not sure from what facts that conclusion would follow.)
Lastly, the German economy doing good (despite massive public expenditure following the reunification) really has very little relation with the EU. The German economy was doing good before Germany joined the EU. By contrast, the British economy has not been doing good - either before or after partly joining the EU. So the real problem does not lie with the EU, but with the British economy. Leaving the EU will hardly fix that.
Very simple, as you can see. Unfortunately, not one of these statements conform to any facts. Perhaps you should try again using actual facts.
Almost half of referendum Scots would disagree with you. But apart from that, those are very simplistic and not very accurate statements to begin with.
Very simple. Also not very true. The current EU developed from an agreement between Germany and France. Germany has also unilaterally signed peace agreements with former WW II enemies. So the initiative seems to have been rather with Germany than with 'countries around Germany'. You also seem to confuse a few other issues. Originally, the EC precursor was primarily economic in nature. Political integration has been (for understandable reasons) much slower and much less effective. Which is why the EU today is still nothing more than a confederation between independent states. As anyone can see who follows day to day European politics, where every major decision is a compromise between various (national) interests. Sort of like in national governments.
So, in short, things are not that simple.
'Hard work' doesn't boost exports. In fact, it's a rather vague statement. Secondly, Britain spending more on defense than Germany (does it ?) has nothing to do with a country's export position.
So you're saying Germany is looking after its interest. But 'let's leave the EU, because it's not working'(?) hardly follows from that. The conclusion would be Britain should work harder looking after its interests. Perhaps opting out of several EU concepts was not in the interest of Britain after all? It's a possibility you seem to ignore altogether.
More appropriately, your conclusion should be that Britain hasn't been looking after its interests in the EU. (Although I'm not sure from what facts that conclusion would follow.)
Lastly, the German economy doing good (despite massive public expenditure following the reunification) really has very little relation with the EU. The German economy was doing good before Germany joined the EU. By contrast, the British economy has not been doing good - either before or after partly joining the EU. So the real problem does not lie with the EU, but with the British economy. Leaving the EU will hardly fix that.
I'm pretty sure none of these things make the UK some incompatible outlier within the European Union. I'm certainly not convinced the UK is more different to all other EU countries than any other EU country is different from others, on these dimensions.
Also several of these things are also arguments against Irish independence which is pretty awkward.
Lohrenswald
世界的 bottom ranked physicist
Do you mean pommes frites?
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Ah. But Australians call crisps "chips", I think. Which must explain the "hot chips". Who'd want to eat a hot crisp? I mean, you could, but I've not heard of anyone doing it.
As for European plumbing being monolithically weird, it isn't.
Link to video.
As for European plumbing being monolithically weird, it isn't.
Link to video.
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