Is catcalling actually awesome?

[Ryika]

Well, this was a lot of fun while it was going on, but it's time to delete as much of the evidence as possible.

 

[civver_764]

I mean, what is "catcalling"? There's a huge spectrum it seems, with stuff like "hey you're pretty cute" on the one hand and "hey I'd like to push you against that wall and fudge the **** out of you" on the other. I can see how the second type would be...troublesome.

As a dude who rarely ever gets "catcalled", I would love the attention. Come on ladies, step up your game. Let's get some gender equality going

Also, it actually takes a lot of balls to "catcall". I respect any man that goes up to a stranger and tells her she's attractive. Being sexually aggressive is part of being a man imo...just don't take it too far.

 

[BvBPL]

Here’s a picture of an attractive woman:

She probably was the subject of catcalls. This photo was taken in 1986 when look she’s sporting in the photo was the in thing.

A problem is that catcalling her is that it emphasizes only her physical attractiveness. The catcaller is attentive only to her physical attributes; the catcall says nothing about her other aspects. It doesn’t recognize her intelligence, communication skills, or other attributes of a holistic person. Catcalling boils down a woman to one attribute, her physical beauty. In that way, it dehumanizes women by not acknowledging them as whole persons.

 

[civver_764]

A problem is that catcalling her is that it emphasizes only her physical attractiveness. The catcaller is attentive only to her physical attributes; the catcall says nothing about her other aspects. It doesn’t recognize her intelligence, communication skills, or other attributes of a holistic person. Catcalling boils down a woman to one attribute, her physical beauty. In that way, it dehumanizes women by not acknowledging them as whole persons.

That's nonsense. Nobody has an obligation to acknowledge her at all. That some people acknowledge her attractiveness doesn't take anything away. It's a bonus, it's giving her something she didn't have. They could have said nothing at all.

 

[Synobun]

What definition of catcalling are we working with here, exactly? My definition is someone shouting at you from afar and either speeding off (if they're in a car) or expecting some type of sexual reward due to their efforts. Is this the scenario you're putting forth in your OP or are we thinking of something else?

 

[Akka]

Here’s a picture of an attractive woman:

Is it ?

 

[BvBPL]

Yes

 

[Akka]

Yes

I beg to differ. I find her rather unappealing.
Also, about the rest of your post :

A problem is that catcalling her is that it emphasizes only her physical attractiveness. The catcaller is attentive only to her physical attributes; the catcall says nothing about her other aspects. It doesn’t recognize her intelligence, communication skills, or other attributes of a holistic person. Catcalling boils down a woman to one attribute, her physical beauty. In that way, it dehumanizes women by not acknowledging them as whole persons.

That's just trite.
As if physical attraction wasn't the overwhelming reason why people started trying to court.

 

[Synobun]

"Catcalling" as a general concept, something like "making a comment (mostly of sexual nature) to a person passing by".

That definitely muddies it for me, then. Stopping someone and complimenting them, even sexually, is fine, IMO, but shouting at them and being generally lewd is not. Someone stopping me and telling me something about me gets their gears going, I'd be fine with. I might even appreciate it even if it's sexual (because it doesn't necessarily mean they're propositioning me). But someone yelling it at me... I would really rather not.

 

[warpus]

I think it's a jerk move to catcall a random person who you don't know at all. Sure, some women like it, but from my understanding of it most women do not. So sure, a guy catcalling women he knows won't mind it, that's fine. But catcalling random people who he has no idea about, that seems like a jerk move.

I mean, I don't like being yelled at across the street as I'm walking home. If you want to talk to me and tell me that I have a nice butt or nice communication skills, walk up to me and tell me. Otherwise I'm going to assume you're uncivilized at best

 

[warpus]

Maybe I didn't make that clear enough, but it's more about the "idealized" version of it, yelling out of a car while driving by probably isn't the best way of doing it.

Wouldn't the best way be to walk up to the person, introduce yourself, say hi, and then compliment him or her? Instead of whistling, yelling it out of a car window, or from the other side of the street? Or however else people catcall?

Essentially what I'm describing isn't catcalling, but I do not see a need for catcalling at all. There's much more civilized ways to communicate your attraction to someone.

 

[Synobun]

Maybe I didn't make that clear enough, but it's more about the "idealized" version of it, yelling out of a car while driving by probably isn't the best way of doing it.

Practically speaking, I don't think I've heard anyone refer to your idealized version as catcalling. This may simply be a difference of where we are in the world. Here in Canada and the US, catcalling is essentially restricted to the lewd and loud behaviour I cited. It's why it muddies the waters for me now that we're operating from the position where your idealized version and my definition are the same thing (just applied differently). It's difficult to say "catcalling is awesome" when it's all bundled into the same package and as a result the OP itself seems dishonest in nature since it's willfully making it so that anyone going "no, it's awful" are also saying compliments in general are awful.

 

[Leoreth]

How about we read women's reaction when "catcalled" and just stop doing it when their body language and overall reaction (like, ignoring you) clearly implies that she is not flattered / interested at all?

I think the most significant problem about catcalling is not "oh no we cannot compliment women anymore" but people (men) not knowing when to stop because they never needed to learn.

 

[warpus]

THAT would be extremely annoying. Why would I want random strangers to introduce themselves to me?

Wait, so you see a person walking up to you and introducing themselves as annoying, but a person yelling at you as you're walking by as perfectly normal?

Yeah, your pov is not going to be the mainstream one... Most people are exactly the opposite

How about we read women's reaction when "catcalled" and just stop doing it when their body language and overall reaction (like, ignoring you) clearly implies that she is not flattered / interested at all?

I think the most significant problem about catcalling is not "oh no we cannot compliment women anymore" but people (men) not knowing when to stop because they never needed to learn.

I mean, there is a civilized and an uncivilized way to compliment someone.

Catcalling seems to fall in the latter category... ..

 

[civver_764]

Here's a video of "catcalling", according to people who are against "catcalling":

No shouting from across the street, or from a car, or being excessively lewd. All of that seems pretty acceptable to me.

 

[warpus]

@civver_764

"Hey Baby"

"Hey Mami"

"Somebody's acknowledging your beauty, you should say thank you"

*Guy blatantly staring at her butt* saying "Damn"

Yeahhhh, that all looks like stuff only jerks would say and do.

When it happens all the time? Yeah.

Way to ignore the second part of my sentence and not respond to it.

Your point of view here is one of the minority. Just because a handful of women don't mind being catcalled, doesn't mean that people should be urged to do it on the off chance that the person they're doing it to is into it

 

[civver_764]

@civver_764

"Hey Baby"

"Hey Mami"

"Somebody's acknowledging your beauty, you should say thank you"

*Guy blatantly staring at her butt* saying "Damn"

Yeahhhh, that all looks like stuff only jerks would say and do.'

Well you can't deny a lot of women respond positively to "jerks".

 

[Synobun]

I've looked up a few definitions of catcalling just now, and that's not at all what they describe it as. The articles I had read also don't only refer to "lews and loud behavior", it seems like you're having a very specific definition that doesn't catch the whole thing.

Catcalling is a functionally useless term if it covers any instance of complimenting another person in public.

 

[Synobun]

No, it would still be a term that perfectly describes "complimenting another person in public". The negative association that you seem to assume automatically could easily be added via an adjective ("unwanted catcalling"/"aggressive catcalling" etc.) in a world that has found ways to make most catcalling be intended and perceived as a positive thing.

I'm not sure that I agree. With my definition and what I've seen/heard IRL, any discussion has the foundation it needs through the one word alone. If someone says they were catcalled, it means they were addressed lewdly/loudly by someone either preying on them or as a drive-by. There was no innocence or civility in that scenario. Everyone is automatically familiar with the gist of what happened. With your universal definition, someone being catcalled becomes a vague statement. What does that mean? Did someone smile at them and say "nice hair"? Did someone stick their head out the window and scream at them?

Any 'academic' or otherwise detached discussion about the term becomes a subject of specifying. If someone is taking issue with being catcalled, or if someone is saying catcalling is great, it demands that the specific terms of that instance of catcalling are specified continuously. You spend more time elaborating what you mean instead of working with a model that everyone already recognizes. It cheapens the language and equates "a compliment" with what can sometimes escalate to blatant sexual harassment.

 

[warpus]

I agree, catcalling is a negative term with negative connotations. If you take away the negative connotations it just becomes "complimenting someone"

Well you can't deny a lot of women respond positively to "jerks".

Sounds like something a "nice guy" would say