Is Civ VII most boring version?

TheBlueKing

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After playing Civ VII for 100+ hours I find it extremely boring. It is not nearly addictive as previous versions of Civilization.

Each era has 4 same goals that you must acomplish and after playing few times this becomes very boring.

I played Civ VI for 3,500+ hours, Civ 5 for 1500+ hours and I still find them interesting, each game can be unique and different. But with Civ VI there is nothing unique, it is all very strictly defined with eras and points that you are trying to collect for science, culture, military etc.

Civ VII very much dictates how you will play and what your goals will be in each era. In most cases you can easily acomplish 3 out of 4 goals, giving you big advantage over other AI players as you progress to another era.

Are you finding Civ VII interesting? Is each game unique and different compared to your last game?
 
I'd say so, yeah.

On some level, the era goal aspect isn't that different from the era score of VI, but I feel that VI gave you a lot more flexibility as to how you got that Golden Age, whereas in VII the parameters are far more narrow and doesn't leave much room for innovation on the player's part.

I think a big part of the problem is the whole "civs being hardwired into very specific eras" thing as well. Which means that you'll probably keep seeing the same exact civs in the Antiquity Era over and over again. I suppose this will be less an issue when more Antiquity civs get added, but . . . while I'm on the subject, the tech trees are very rigid so that you can never go further than the techs for that specific age, you can only ever explore one continent in the first Era but have to wait until the second to begin exploring the rest of the map, pantheons can be opened in the first Era but religions can only ever be started in the second Era, every Era ends with a manufactured Crisis . . . it's all so lockstep. Previous Civ games I felt had more spontaneity and flexibility to how you could approach things. And the way things gradually unfolded felt, to me, more organic, whereas here, they feel very artificial and staged.

Also, with each civ only having one theme (and no ambient themes), and each era only having a small amount of peace/war themes, the soundtrack gets very monotonous very fast (a problem that VI never had, with its huge amount of music).

Even the Great Works are really REALLY dull, just these generic codices and artifacts and so on. I really miss things like the famous paintings/music/literature of VI, where you would see the art or hear the song or Sean bean quoting a passage from the book.
 
I hear you! I think it is a fun game, but often I do feel overwhelmed by the specific goals/checklist that you need to work through for each age in order to feel like you are really competing as a player.

I think some players have expressed on these forums that they essentially ignore the goals and play through the game as they would normally, but I haven’t been able to bring myself to embrace this play style.

I don’t think I find it boring but I do find it somewhat repetitive. I have to add that this is the first time I’ve felt stressed playing Civ, and that feeling is absolutely tied to a feeling of falling behind or not being adequately competitive in the legacy points chase.
 
Each era has 4 same goals that you must acomplish (...)

Are you finding Civ VII interesting? Is each game unique and different compared to your last game?
It still doesn't match the variability of VI for me, but I find VII refreshingly different from it, and - rough edges aside - very enjoyable. The level of detail each of the civs has means they feel meaningfully different to play, in a way Civ V and before didn't.

But then, about 4 or 5 games in I also thought you must do the era goals, or at the very least, should. You absolutely mustn't. The optimal thing to do in the era is to reach future science or future civics, and complete them multiple times, for the wildcard points and next era boosts. If you know you're aiming for a specific victory type, completing that objective helps with the final step in the modern era. Beyond that, ignore them. Treat them like the era score or tech & civic boosts in VI. Nice to get if you can, but they don't dictate your playstyle. If you'd rather conquer your entire continent in exploration, go for it. If you'd rather go r-r-r-raw science from the start, go for it. I tried it, it works. It's faster than just trying to do everything (if you care about efficiency), and it's more varied than just trying to do everything (if you care about fun).

The failure is in the presentation. The game makes them sound more critical than they are.
 
It still doesn't match the variability of VI for me, but I find VII refreshingly different from it, and - rough edges aside - very enjoyable. The level of detail each of the civs has means they feel meaningfully different to play, in a way Civ V and before didn't.

But then, about 4 or 5 games in I also thought you must do the era goals, or at the very least, should. You absolutely mustn't. The optimal thing to do in the era is to reach future science or future civics, and complete them multiple times, for the wildcard points and next era boosts. If you know you're aiming for a specific victory type, completing that objective helps with the final step in the modern era. Beyond that, ignore them. Treat them like the era score or tech & civic boosts in VI. Nice to get if you can, but they don't dictate your playstyle. If you'd rather conquer your entire continent in exploration, go for it. If you'd rather go r-r-r-raw science from the start, go for it. I tried it, it works. It's faster than just trying to do everything (if you care about efficiency), and it's more varied than just trying to do everything (if you care about fun).

The failure is in the presentation. The game makes them sound more critical than they are.
But still you have same tasks to perform to get those 3 goals for specific victory type (one in each era).

For example, you want science and you go for science, but your gameplay is all about completing same task in each era e.g. getting 5 specialists with 40+ production etc. That is a small and easily achievable goal and while completing it you can also complete other goals like treasure fleet or relics etc.

Whatever type of gameplay you choose, you still need to complete same goals in each era in each game. It influences your gameplay a lot and becomes boring after you play game 5 or 10 times.

Its like they game is helping you achieve victory by telling you what to do in each era and if you do it all then you will win. That is boring. Let me find my way and discover continents, natural wonders and decide on policies so that I maximize my science output and win.

If you do not follow those era goals and play without them, then you could end age without any points, unrest and many other issues as your army will be lost/generated at the start of new era.

It is all very limiting e.g. number of cities is limited by policies, units are lost and generated on end/start of era, crisis always starts at ~70 turn etc. It is all by predefined rules that force you to play like they expect and want. There is no freedom for player to choose their play style or build civilazation like "something that you believe in".
 
But still you have same tasks to perform to get those 3 goals for specific victory type (one in each era).

For example, you want science and you go for science, but your gameplay is all about completing same task in each era e.g. getting 5 specialists with 40+ production etc. That is a small and easily achievable goal and while completing it you can also complete other goals like treasure fleet or relics etc.

Whatever type of gameplay you choose, you still need to complete same goals in each era in each game. It influences your gameplay a lot and becomes boring after you play game 5 or 10 times.

Its like they game is helping you achieve victory by telling you what to do in each era and if you do it all then you will win. That is boring. Let me find my way and discover continents, natural wonders and decide on policies so that I maximize my science output and win.

If you do not follow those era goals and play without them, then you could end age without any points, unrest and many other issues as your army will be lost/generated at the start of new era.

It is all very limiting e.g. number of cities is limited by policies, units are lost and generated on end/start of era, crisis always starts at ~70 turn etc. It is all by predefined rules that force you to play like they expect and want. There is no freedom for player to choose their play style or build civilazation like "something that you believe in".

That does sound boring. Well, at least after 5-10 plays when the newness wears off.
 
I don't find it boring, at least I hope not, I have 187 hours in this game. I hope I'm not devoting that much time to something I find boring. But I don't find it as interesting as Civ 6. At least not yet. Keep in mind Civ 6 didn't become that interesting until rise and fall. That's when they introduced new civs like Mali which could completely alter your gameplay. Here so far, the gameplay is largely the same because I'm always going for all the legacy paths I can (part of this is my OCD with the challenge system, once I reach level 50 I can easy back on trying to get all legacies). Still, sometimes the game map throws me for a loop. Or I get dogpiled at the start of an age. I do find war fun, but it can be tedious as well. Kind of a mixed bag.
 
The failure is in the presentation. The game makes them sound more critical than they are.

It isn't just about the presentation. Legacy paths dictate how the AI plays as well. Players can just ignore them, fine. The AI will always pursue at least 1 of the 4 paths in every game. This creates repetitive gameplay. The exploration age is probably the biggest offender. Its very design is why we didn't get any Pangea style maps at launch, because they wouldn't work with the current legacy paths as they are implemented. That's just 1 example of less possible variety in the game as a direct result of the legacy path system that has nothing to do with players thinking legacy paths are more important than they are.
 
After playing Civ VII for 100+ hours I find it extremely boring. It is not nearly addictive as previous versions of Civilization.

Each era has 4 same goals that you must acomplish and after playing few times this becomes very boring.

I played Civ VI for 3,500+ hours, Civ 5 for 1500+ hours and I still find them interesting, each game can be unique and different. But with Civ VI there is nothing unique, it is all very strictly defined with eras and points that you are trying to collect for science, culture, military etc.

Civ VII very much dictates how you will play and what your goals will be in each era. In most cases you can easily acomplish 3 out of 4 goals, giving you big advantage over other AI players as you progress to another era.

Are you finding Civ VII interesting? Is each game unique and different compared to your last game?
To your last 2 questions: yes, very interesting, and yes, each game is unique and different. My main play style is fractal map, long ages, epic speed, for whatever that is worth. The leaders and Civs all play out differently as I end up in the modern era with a collection of traditions that I can mix and match.

The "4 same goals" argument comes up a lot, but I see no reason why this is not the exact same thing as every other Civ game. To get any kind of victory in any Civ game you need to accomplish goals -- there is an end goal you "go for," but you need to hit milestones to get to that goal. If you want to get a culture victory in Civ6, you need to perform a series of steps that gets you there. You need X amount of tourism over the other civs. To get science victory you need to build a series of projects. It all felt so... safe. And sterile. Domination in Civ6 is far more tedious than Civ7, too.

The difference in Civ7 is an ability to pivot and evolve with the world around you. I think there are still some kinks to iron out here, but the bones of what we have is already better than peak Civ6 imho. Civ6 to me is a game about optimization, and that optimization begins the moment your settler founds that first city. Talk about "destination" vs "journey" -- Civ6 is all about destination imho. There is an illusion of choice from there, dressed in rock bands and giant death robots, but the game was monotonous for me. Something about it really bummed me out every time I played. In Civ7, I can be a cultural ancient Civ, then pivot to invading my neighbors, then pivot to science -- but not without rhyme or reason, since remnants of your decisions remain marked on your empire, your surroundings/lands, and your abilities/traditions. You can arrange these progressions, or dream them up. I spend time dreaming of combos I want to try, or new approaches, or layers. That is what keeps me coming back. It's a sense of "What kind of story will I tell next time?" as opposed to, "What civ can I pick to optimize my culture yields so that I get a science victory?"

I do agree that the presentation is misleading. I have gone multiple games now without even looking at my legacy paths, and ending up with fun and engaging experiences (and hitting some of them "organically"). I'd say that Civ6 was mostly window dressing: it did the same things, but with a lot of fluff surrounding those things. Civ7 is a bit more streamlined, but that does not necessarily mean less complex. They'll definitely add a bunch of stuff through expansions, but again, what we have here to me is already a more interesting approach than that of the previous iteration.

Btw, 100+ hours in less than 2 months is not how I would define boring. I'm not negating your opinion, which is rightfully yours, but by my metric that isn't exactly a damnation of the game or how exciting it is. It must be doing (or have done) something right! Comparing with games w/multiple expansions multiple years old and the 100s of hours you have there is kinda a non-starter.

It isn't just about the presentation. Legacy paths dictate how the AI plays as well. Players can just ignore them, fine. The AI will always pursue at least 1 of the 4 paths in every game. This creates repetitive gameplay. The exploration age is probably the biggest offender. Its very design is why we didn't get any Pangea style maps at launch, because they wouldn't work with the current legacy paths as they are implemented. That's just 1 example of less possible variety in the game as a direct result of the legacy path system that has nothing to do with players thinking legacy paths are more important than they are.
Hmm, I don't know about this. I've had several games where the AI is perplexing and unpredictable. But regardless, another improvement (not perfection, but improvement) is AI imho. Since launch it has been better than Civ6, but the recent patch made it even better. Civ6's AI was such a pushover and seemingly had no goals or ambitions. Talk about repetition! At least with Civ7 the game gets down to the wire (for me, anyway).

This might just be a "different strokes" situation, too, which I can appreciate!
 
My experience is largely similar to ThichN's. When I choose not to hyperfocus on the legacy paths and just do what I can, I'll often make the progress I want anyway, and my inability to fully complete legacy paths in Antiq and Explo don't really harm my ability to win in Modern. In fact in I tend to get multiple dark age options going from Explo to Modern, but can still shake out a victory at that point.

I also rarely open up the legacy paths UI in Antiq and Explo, but I usually check up more often in Modern just to check on how the other civs are doing. If someone starts pulling ahead, I might try to streamline my choices a little more or switch gears into functional (or complete) elimination.
 
Modern is indeed easy enough to win without any particular strategy in the first two eras, though I wish they would fix that. I play civ for a challenge and if at some point it offers that, will legacy paths be needed? I would have to think so. At that point I wonder if it will be more fun to jump through the same hoops each era or to have to/get to come up with your own strategy.
 
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I don't know if not having any strategy at all would work out particularly well; at the least, "wrong" strategies have worked out badly for me.

If I play peaceful sessions which I only allow myself to disperse IPs and never start wars nor cap settlements, I'd get locked in and be much more likely to lose in Modern. Might just be a matter of playstyle, but I would have maybe at most 3 good cities to do anything with, and I'm not able to sim city my way to victory in such conditions. The thing about the legacy paths in Explo is that they're more distant land focused: if I were to clean house on my home continent, I'm not likely to finish legacy paths, but I would be fairly strong going into Modern because now I have many more potential cities and high-level Commanders.
 
I did a test on deity where I shift-entered the first two eras. Survived to the modern era and then won modern militaristically. Now was this intended? I have to assume not, but it’s certainly possible at least in the current version - hopefully that will change. For a simpler version (haven’t tested this) you should be able to start in modern and not spend any starting points, and see how easy it is to win.
 
After playing Civ VII for 100+ hours I find it extremely boring. It is not nearly addictive as previous versions of Civilization.
I have the opposite experience, just at the stage where things started to drag in previous iterations you now get an age transition to plan for.

Civs are always relevant and the Civ specific civics are a work of genius. It has rough edges sure but loving it so far.

So many options for leader/Civ as well so need to repeat any combinations.
 
I'm predicting they will add one different way to achieve each type in an expansion. With 8 paths instead of 4, you really can't do them all which frees up everything and gives the people what they seem to miss (i.e. founding a religion in antiquity). Otherwise i really haven't gotten around to play enough to be able to tell.
 
There is no difference between Civ7 and Civ6's so-called sandbox, unless you're just comparing variety (e.g. of civs). There is no requirement to pursue legacy paths. In fact, there is a thread on this forum showing how well you can do while ignoring them. I suspect the lesson there is it might be better to focus on one legacy path well, if you want, than to try and do everything.

If you find that you simply can't ignore them, well, that's a you problem. I'm like that too, but I don't find the gameplay any more repetitive than Civ6, which (let's be honest) makes you do pretty much the same few things every game at high difficulty levels.

The "4 same goals" argument comes up a lot, but I see no reason why this is not the exact same thing as every other Civ game. To get any kind of victory in any Civ game you need to accomplish goals -- there is an end goal you "go for," but you need to hit milestones to get to that goal. If you want to get a culture victory in Civ6, you need to perform a series of steps that gets you there. You need X amount of tourism over the other civs. To get science victory you need to build a series of projects. It all felt so... safe. And sterile. Domination in Civ6 is far more tedious than Civ7, too.
I'm starting to suspect those who think Civ6 is a more sandbox or free experience simply played the game at relatively low difficulty levels and spent their time faffing about into victory. Civ7's legacy paths strip away the illusion, but they think the same doesn't apply to Civ6.

It isn't just about the presentation. Legacy paths dictate how the AI plays as well. Players can just ignore them, fine. The AI will always pursue at least 1 of the 4 paths in every game. This creates repetitive gameplay. The exploration age is probably the biggest offender. Its very design is why we didn't get any Pangea style maps at launch, because they wouldn't work with the current legacy paths as they are implemented. That's just 1 example of less possible variety in the game as a direct result of the legacy path system that has nothing to do with players thinking legacy paths are more important than they are.
While playing Civ6, I have never felt like that the AI did anything other than what they always did.
 
But still you have same tasks to perform to get those 3 goals for specific victory type (one in each era).

For example, you want science and you go for science, but your gameplay is all about completing same task in each era e.g. getting 5 specialists with 40+ production etc. That is a small and easily achievable goal and while completing it you can also complete other goals like treasure fleet or relics etc.
I hear what you're saying, and obviously you feel how you feel. If you find it boring, then it is boring for you. I'm not trying to argue that you're wrong, I'm just providing my own perspective, since you asked an open question.

And fundamentally, for me, those legacy paths are just byproducts of doing what you'd do anyway. So, sure, some will just happen regardless. You want your specialists at some point in Exploration, so you will get those specialists, and with them, the yields. Same with culture in antiquity; you'll build the wonders for their effects and their adjacencies. But that's just playing efficiently. I don't find it populating specialist slots or building some wonders fundamentally different from beelining Apprenticeship in Civ 6. What you want is the yields, not a box ticked.

And to give a counterpoint - I'll often not bother investing into missionaries, and will not complete culture path. I'll often not bother chasing after the treasure fleet resources, and will not complete economy path. I'll rarely aim to fully fill the military path, unless I'm playing a game focused on conquests. Sometimes I'll get 1/3 or 2/3 in those paths, sometimes I'll get nothing. Those games don't suffer from it. Ignoring one area just lets me get stronger elsewhere.

It isn't just about the presentation. Legacy paths dictate how the AI plays as well. Players can just ignore them, fine. The AI will always pursue at least 1 of the 4 paths in every game. This creates repetitive gameplay. The exploration age is probably the biggest offender. Its very design is why we didn't get any Pangea style maps at launch, because they wouldn't work with the current legacy paths as they are implemented. That's just 1 example of less possible variety in the game as a direct result of the legacy path system that has nothing to do with players thinking legacy paths are more important than they are.
Not sure I get the point on the AI; they'll build some wonders. They'll spam missionaries. They'll try to grab resources where they can. Some will expand beyond settlement cap, and bully their neighbors mercilessly. Some will screw up their start and get stuck with a few mediocre settlements. Sometimes they'll settle on an useless island. And eventually, some of them will do something that leads us to war. That's what AI always did. Which aspect of playing against them is missing from Civ VI for you?

And yes, Pangea map is missing (along with few others). That is the one area where the game offers less choice. If lots (or all) of your past Civ games were playing on Pangea, then obviously that will have big impact. But there is more variety elsewhere. A continents game as Mongolia in Civ VII will be far more different from a continents game as Spain than it would be in Civ V.

ETA: I'd also say - and it's definitely criticism, not a defense - that the reason we don't have Pangea map type is not the fact legacy paths exist, but that the implementation for a couple of them is too narrow. You could absolutely have the resources spawning on the opposite end of the landmass from your start. If they were rigid about keeping you away from the "distant lands" in anitquity, you could have a mountain range splitting the landmass in two, peppered with bits of glacier that melt at the start of exploration. There are ways to work with those in any setting, and honestly, I'm sure some of them were considered and parked for later.
 
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I'm starting to treat Civ7 as BERTx3

I do LIKE BERT, and play it from time to time, but not as much as 5 & 6 (682, 4503, 5474 hrs respectively)
 
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