Oh okay I see. I disagree with your last paragraph because a pacifist can achieve peace without needing to fight anyone, let alone the aggressor. Pacifists use other method, like science or religion or culture etc, something with a strong social component or effect, to turn the aggressor into an ally. To convert another Pacifist. That's what I mean when I think it actually can prove it's a movement than can either succeed or fail. It's the holy grail of society but it's entirely realistic. It just depends if we can cure people of choosing to be violent or oppressive. But I see what you mean that it's all pretty tautological the way you first phrase it in your last post. You almost had me convinced!