Is feminism inherently negative?

[Grisu]

I love how this was ignored.

Just goes to show...

maybe because this discussion is about feminism, not about domestic violence

Research (see Dr. Suzanne Steinmetz - from 1978) indicates that men are abused at least as much by their wives. However it could actually be higher because men are afraid to call this stuff out.

and maybe just because this is pure rubbish, while I concede that the numbers of males being abuses is probably significantly larger than the number of abuses reported, that would still place males as being less abused, since almost all statistics in dom. violence reports show a large disparity between genders.

and for what it's worth. numbers of males murdered by their partners have dropped dramatically since this report was published, while women murdered by their partners has roughly stayed the same, so I don't know how feasible a 30 year old report is on domestic violence in general.

 

[Gladi]

I don't deny that there are some women who count themselves as feminists and do good things. What I do doubt is that all, or even most feminists truly desire actual equality. As far as I can tell, the majority of feminists don't want actual, true equality, they want subtle superiority. They want to be "equal", but to have a woman striking her husband treated as a less serious offense than for a man to strike a woman. They want men to have to pay women alimony and child support, without having a right to see their children. (Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand - men shouldn't have to pay child support unless they have equal custody, should they want it) There is a ton of crap that goes on in our society that doesn't belong in one that teaches equality.

Most feminists want to have their cake, and eat it too. They want to preach "equality" and all that good stuff, and then turn around and set up the system to benefit women over men. That isn't equality, it's superiority. If women want equality, then fine - I have no problem giving it to them. But they'd better be willing to give up all their nice cushy privileges as well, because you can't have the advantages of being a protected, weaker group without any of the disadvantages. That isn't equality in any sense of the word.

, yeah they ae just professors of gender studies at universities and life-long activists... Besides, it is not on feminism to prove its innocence, its up to its critics to prove it guilt without any doubt.

EDIT: IT really takes strange circular logic to get to this: Feminism is BAD. There are some women who label themselves feminist but are not BAD. Ergo they are not feminists, because they are not BAD. For feminism is only BAD.

 

[Azash]

The word is "misandry".

What did have to do with what I said?

 

[Brighteye]

Most feminists want to have their cake, and eat it too. They want to preach "equality" and all that good stuff, and then turn around and set up the system to benefit women over men. That isn't equality, it's superiority. If women want equality, then fine - I have no problem giving it to them. But they'd better be willing to give up all their nice cushy privileges as well, because you can't have the advantages of being a protected, weaker group without any of the disadvantages. That isn't equality in any sense of the word.

That's how women often behave on a personal level too. They'll be upset if you treat them as weak and silly, but if you agree to equality they'll just push for more. I've known women really mess up relationships (including with me) because they simply cannot stick to one set of rules for both members of the relationship. It's a constant testing and pushing of other people's patience to see how far you can go, until suddenly you end up heartbroken and out on the street.
Your paragraph here is almost identical to a lecture I gave to my (ex-) girlfriend about her ideal relationship. She'd constantly agree that we were equal partners in the partnership, but then break her word (through her actions) within 5 minutes.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Dear God! Oh my Lord, oh my Lord. No wonder, you have been married. And while I personally am single and childless being part of actual family I see the amount of work given to my nephews.

So, in other words, you have nothing to say.

You may have missed on this, but most people don't live even in twelve room houses. And even most people who are somewhat well-off don't have anything that would interest a gold-digger. So you say that it is somewhat prevalent in extremely small slice of population? Hmm, wonder about that.

There are thieves who would steal $100 if the opportunity availed itself. You seem to think that robbery only occurs for exhorbitant sums. All it takes is one sucker and one scam artist. All it takes is opportunity.

 

[Grisu]

What did have to do with what I said?

I think he meant as a female equivalent to male chauvinism. He's wrong though, misandry is the equivalent to misogyny, not chauvinism.

 

[Gladi]

So, in other words, you have nothing to say.

WHy, just because I only live in the household?

There are thieves who would steal $100 if the opportunity availed itself. You seem to think that robbery only occurs for exhorbitant sums. All it takes is one sucker and one scam artist. All it takes is opportunity.

And they will take months or even years working on such scam, yeah, we get it, that you are bitter about your divorce.

Okay, we won't see eye to eye on this, but I see my grandmother (82) having serious nervous breakdowns because she cannot us cook dinner or wash the floor, because the way she was raised. And I find it utterly horryfying that anybody could make young girl so weighed down with a singular function.

 

[Panda]

The usual non-sense about wage-gaps, victimization et al. Sadly, not by rabid manhating women, but by males brought up and brainwashed to hate their sex.

Link.

 

[Grisu]

The usual non-sense about wage-gaps, victimization et al. Sadly, not by rabid manhating women, but by males brought up and brainwashed to hate their sex.

Link.

I wonder how long it would take until somebody called me a traitor to my sex Such tactics are usually only reserved for man-hating, rabid feminists who attack other women for not having the same view

 

[Azash]

I think it's pretty awesome how, let's put this in a metaphor.

Teams A and B engage in a tug o' war. They both say they just want the knot on the rope to stay in the middle, but in actuality it stays in the middle because both teams are straining as hard as they can to move the knot to their own side.

 

[LucyDuke]

I think it's pretty awesome how, let's put this in a metaphor.

Teams A and B engage in a tug o' war. They both say they just want the knot on the rope to stay in the middle, but in actuality it stays in the middle because both teams are straining as hard as they can to move the knot to their own side.

You gonna let go of the rope?

 

[fishjie]

feminists dont want equality.

if they wanted equality, then they would eliminate alimony. no more of guys getting screwed over by greedy wives who want to take all their money. they want women to be independent and work right?

if they wanted equality, they would push for legislation that punishes all the women who falsely accuse men of rape and ruin their lives. kind of like how that stripper falsely accussed the duke lacrosse players (who are now cleared of any wrongdoing btw due to overwhelming evidence). yet, no charges are being filed against this woman who would have ruined all these men.

if they wanted equality, they wouldnt ***** when a guy wont pay for her meals and instead insist on splitting the bill.

if they wanted equality, they would look at domestic abuse, of WOMEN against MEN, which btw, gets ignored, because the men are laughed at for being weak.

if they wanted equality, when a woman attacks a man with a knife, and the man hits her in self defense, the man would not go to jail for abuse.

etc etc etc

 

[Gladi]

Just shows that being ill and bored is bad for your health.

feminists dont want equality.

Whoa, I now know that Allah is just a pagan moon deity, I will now go and tell my Arabic brethr... oh wrong tract.

if they wanted equality, then they would eliminate alimony. no more of guys getting screwed over by greedy wives who want to take all their money. they want women to be independent and work right?

Yeah, gods forbid the guy had any responsibility to his kids!

if they wanted equality, they would push for legislation that punishes all the women who falsely accuse men of rape and ruin their lives. kind of like how that stripper falsely accussed the duke lacrosse players (who are now cleared of any wrongdoing btw due to overwhelming evidence). yet, no charges are being filed against this woman who would have ruined all these men.

AFAIK, most countries have libel laws, whee do you that you don't have them? Besides one-ff legal proceedings can hardly to be attributed solely to evil ******** conspiracy.

if they wanted equality, they wouldnt ***** when a guy wont pay for her meals and instead insist on splitting the bill.

Well, I cannot comment on this, for in my country if you are inviting somebody you pay, be it man, woman, dog or ET.

if they wanted equality, they would look at domestic abuse, of WOMEN against MEN, which btw, gets ignored, because the men are laughed at for being weak.

And as I said there are some who are looking into it. And the ridiculation is clear show of sexist bias in society btw.

if they wanted equality, when a woman attacks a man with a knife, and the man hits her in self defense, the man would not go to jail for abuse.

As I said above. Plus can you show where there are mainstream feminist roups pushing such laws?
[/QUOTE]

 

[fishjie]

too lazy to break up into individual quotes. i might not be able to post again for a while im at work

sure there is NOTHING wrong with having responsibility for your kids - yet you arent even allowed to see them? who usually gets custody in divorce settlements? hmm.... a woman can cheat on her rich husband, divorce him, get millions of dollars in the settlement, as well as alimony that is WAY MORE than necessary for raising a kid, AND the man can rarely see them? fact is, if women are independent, they can raise their own children without financial support from men. alimony was only invented because back then women couldnt work. they can now. a man can financially support his kids on his own, why cant a woman?

there are a huge number of rape cases where the women wrongfully accuse the men. even if the men arent convicted (most are tossed out because its clear the women are liars), their reputations are forever ruined. the women gets away free.

who is responsible for doing all the work when pursuing a relationship? guys are supposed to chase the girls, so who is going to be doing the asking out? so who will end up doing all the paying? its the same thing. feminists want equality - either they can ask guys out AND pay the bill, or they can STFU about equality.

there are far too many people in this world who will be shocked when a guy hits a girl and say its wrong, regardless of the circumstances. a girl may have been attacking the guy multiple times, and when the guy finally strikes back, its wrong? so which one is it? are women the weaker sex who need to be protected, or are they equal, in which case, if a woman attacks a man, he has every right to protect himself? im all for equality. i think its a shame there are domestic abuse cases where men are being terrorized by women, except they have no recourse, because the cops mock them.

 

[CaptainF]

too lazy to break up into individual quotes. i might not be able to post again for a while im at work

sure there is NOTHING wrong with having responsibility for your kids - yet you arent even allowed to see them? who usually gets custody in divorce settlements? hmm.... a woman can cheat on her rich husband, divorce him, get millions of dollars in the settlement, as well as alimony that is WAY MORE than necessary for raising a kid, AND the man can rarely see them? fact is, if women are independent, they can raise their own children without financial support from men. alimony was only invented because back then women couldnt work. they can now. a man can financially support his kids on his own, why cant a woman?

there are a huge number of rape cases where the women wrongfully accuse the men. even if the men arent convicted (most are tossed out because its clear the women are liars), their reputations are forever ruined. the women gets away free.

who is responsible for doing all the work when pursuing a relationship? guys are supposed to chase the girls, so who is going to be doing the asking out? so who will end up doing all the paying? its the same thing. feminists want equality - either they can ask guys out AND pay the bill, or they can STFU about equality.

there are far too many people in this world who will be shocked when a guy hits a girl and say its wrong, regardless of the circumstances. a girl may have been attacking the guy multiple times, and when the guy finally strikes back, its wrong? so which one is it? are women the weaker sex who need to be protected, or are they equal, in which case, if a woman attacks a man, he has every right to protect himself? im all for equality. i think its a shame there are domestic abuse cases where men are being terrorized by women, except they have no recourse, because the cops mock them.

Says it all.

 

[Grisu]

sure there is NOTHING wrong with having responsibility for your kids - yet you arent even allowed to see them? who usually gets custody in divorce settlements?

I agree with this, all things being equal the father should have equal chances at getting custody, yet he doesn't. this is one area where further progress needs to be made

hmm.... a woman can cheat on her rich husband, divorce him, get millions of dollars in the settlement, as well as alimony that is WAY MORE than necessary for raising a kid, AND the man can rarely see them?

once again with the 'rich' guys. fact is, the average person isn't rich, and there's not much to get out of them, don't apply celeb marriages to the general public

fact is, if women are independent, they can raise their own children without financial support from men. alimony was only invented because back then women couldnt work. they can now. a man can financially support his kids on his own, why cant a woman?

show me how a man is capable of financially supporting his kids while at the same time raising them? sure a woman is independent in the sense that she can work to raise enough money to raise her kid, but then she'd have no time to actually raise it. alimonies are thought as payment for the job of raising the kid.

there are a huge number of rape cases where the women wrongfully accuse the men. even if the men arent convicted (most are tossed out because its clear the women are liars), their reputations are forever ruined. the women gets away free.

in switzerland it's a crime to accuse somebody wrongfully of a crime (Verleumdung, I think it's called libel in english). I seem to remember a case where a police officer here was accused of rape, and in the end the girl (who had made the story up) was charged with libel.

who is responsible for doing all the work when pursuing a relationship?

what work? I never did any 'work' in pursuing a relationship, I talked to girls, actually surprising as it may seem, I even enjoyed it

so who will end up doing all the paying? its the same thing. feminists want equality - either they can ask guys out AND pay the bill, or they can STFU about equality.

I think I bought my gf about 2-3 drinks before we got together, in turn she did the same for me Today a guy is not expected to pick up the bill when going out to dinner, except when it's a explicit invitation (but then it works both ways). At least that's the way it is where I live.

there are far too many people in this world who will be shocked when a guy hits a girl and say its wrong, regardless of the circumstances. a girl may have been attacking the guy multiple times, and when the guy finally strikes back, its wrong? so which one is it? are women the weaker sex who need to be protected, or are they equal, in which case, if a woman attacks a man, he has every right to protect himself? im all for equality. i think its a shame there are domestic abuse cases where men are being terrorized by women, except they have no recourse, because the cops mock them.

hitting someone is low, I look down on people who hit others, regardless of their gender or that of their victims.

 

[mdwh]

if they wanted equality, they would push for legislation that punishes all the women who falsely accuse men of rape and ruin their lives.

We already have that legislation. At least in the UK, women have been charged and even sent to prison (e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/6486069.stm ).

if they wanted equality, they wouldnt ***** when a guy wont pay for her meals and instead insist on splitting the bill.

Do feminists insist on the man paying then? Given that plenty of women in general insist on splitting bills, this strikes me as unlikely.

if they wanted equality, when a woman attacks a man with a knife, and the man hits her in self defense, the man would not go to jail for abuse.

Can you cite a particular case, along with what feminists' viewpoints were?

 

[mdwh]

there are a huge number of rape cases where the women wrongfully accuse the men. even if the men arent convicted (most are tossed out because its clear the women are liars), their reputations are forever ruined. the women gets away free.

False (see above post).

And yes the conviction rate may be low, but conviction rate for rape is also very well. In cases where it's one person's word against another, the courts can't convict either way.

who is responsible for doing all the work when pursuing a relationship? guys are supposed to chase the girls, so who is going to be doing the asking out? so who will end up doing all the paying? its the same thing. feminists want equality - either they can ask guys out AND pay the bill, or they can STFU about equality.

Er, plenty of women do ask guys out, and pay the bill. Perhaps they don't ask YOU out

 

[mdwh]

in switzerland it's a crime to accuse somebody wrongfully of a crime (Verleumdung, I think it's called libel in english). I seem to remember a case where a police officer here was accused of rape, and in the end the girl (who had made the story up) was charged with libel.

In England, libel is a civil issue.

Accusing someone in public of rape would be libel, but note that if someone lies to the police, it then becomes no longer a civil issue, but a crime in its own right.

 

[Brighteye]

I think I bought my gf about 2-3 drinks before we got together, in turn she did the same for me Today a guy is not expected to pick up the bill when going out to dinner, except when it's a explicit invitation (but then it works both ways). At least that's the way it is where I live.


hitting someone is low, I look down on people who hit others, regardless of their gender or that of their victims.

I'd never look down on someone who hit back. You start violence, you get what you deserve, no matter how weak you are and how strong your victim.

Er, plenty of women do ask guys out, and pay the bill. Perhaps they don't ask YOU out

I know plenty of women who never ask guys out, and the rest, rather than asking guys out, just rely on meetings at free places (like pubs), and sometimes complain to friends if they're not bought drinks.
There are sensible women around, but most still want to be bought drinks, if not dinner too.