Is 'Historical Jesus' Fictional As Well?
- Thread starter Commodore
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Darn tootin'
I think of the Bible as the Universe's Milgram experiment
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
It's not nonsense. There is a reason he has four books in the top 10. His methods work.
David was all of that. The only thing that separates him from most murderers is that he confessed, showed remorse and did his best to clean up the mess. There was a lot of mes to clean up. You did understand that the Bible is full of people with faults, right?
Money, time, other resources.
J
Is one of the things in this "owner's manual" a list of tips on how to be snide?
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of shoving a bible at me and telling me that this is what I need to tell me how to live.
I've never committed adultery, or murdered anyone, nor do I need some "holy book" to tell me it's wrong. What consequences did David get for murder? Some supernatural technobabble, from what I read. If anyone else in the kingdom had done what David did, what would have been the punishment?
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Snide is a natural talent. I am trying to refine it into something more socially acceptable, but lacking success.
No one shoved anything at you. From all appearances, you came looking for it.
The consequences of David's infidelity are many and varied. The son he fathered died in infancy. A prophet told him to expect this. Whether you accept this as a punishment, David did. His shame was very public. He wrote one of the most quoted Psalms in penitence.
Spoiler :
Later in life his favorite son, born of the same woman, led a rebellion. Behind it was his father-in-law, the woman's father and the son's grandfather. In the course of putting down the rebellion, the son was killed. One of the generals did it, because he understood David would not.
David confessed and was forgiven, but his actions had many consequences.
J
Being snide is one of those behaviors that really doesn't help to foster productive discussion.
As for shoving stuff at me, I was speaking in general, as well as with regard to this thread. More than once, I had to threaten to call the cops because some JW or other preacher-type refused to get off my front porch when I told them to.
But either way, it's a bit rich to tell me I need to live my life according to a book that says it's fine - even expected - to kill people for reasons no sane person would ever countenance these days.
"Against you, you only, have I sinned..." It wasn't God who got murdered because of his wife, it was Uriah. So I'd say it was Uriah who was sinned against.
No baby ever died because of its parents' infidelity. Illness, malnutrition, neglect, accidental poisoning or just plain accident... all those are reasonable causes of death. Even murder, as some parents do kill their babies. But you're not going to find any reputable doctor to say a baby died because its biological parents weren't lawfully married. That doesn't make any sense.
This stuff is revoked later in the manual. These manuals are hard to edit, I hope you understand.
In that case, wouldn't it be prudent to stop pushing the one that contains the "revoked" material? You know, since people aren't supposed to do stuff like stoning others for adultery, witchcraft, eating the wrong kind of food, working on the sabbath, and a long list of other undesirable activities.
Lillefix
I'm serious. You can.
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If only we still had these almighty ecumenical councils where they could just change the faith as they wanted, and if you didn't agree the Emperor would come for you.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
You are not the first to say so.
I cannot let this go unchallenged. It says nothing of the kind.
Understandable. It's a higher authority thing. Uriah cannot forgive him, but God can.
The whole point is that there is no person is too far gone. So long as you want to be made right, it is possible.
J
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Snideness aside, that's not a horrible way of looking at it. The strict ceremony is no longer required, but the case studies are retained. One thing that sets the Bible apart from other holy writings is that it has real people dealing with real problems.
J
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
You can change your faith if you want to. I did it and so can you!
It wouldn't be easy given that most people's knowledge of scripture (even today) doesn't come from actually reading the Bible. Once you have it in your head it's stuck; a new edition excising that part won't take it out of the memories of the people who heard it before, nor will it stop people from telling the story. So to 'change' anything in scripture you need to positively overwrite it, but in such a way that doesn't suggest (or let on) that the Bible is a living document subject to error - so rather than editing the source material, what usually happens is that clarifications (be they components of the New Testament, Papal Bulls or whatever) are issued on top.
aelf
Ashen One
These are examples of presumptuous statements. The first is begging the question, and the second is also kind of begging the question in that it assumes (1) the people in the book were real (the very topic of discussion in this thread), (2) if the people were real, the problems they purportedly dealt with were real, and (3) people in other holy books were not real or did not deal with real problems.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Let me be clear: to suggest that using credit cards is in some way intrinsically different from using cash is nonsense. It's only because people believe that they are different that the difficulty with them arises.
I indicated elsewhere that what I've seen of his advice so far isn't particularly bad
Well, using a credit card sends 1% of the sale proceeds to New York. Cash gives that money to the manager, to be allocated according to internal policy.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Sure, but cash transactions also have a cost: you've to store that money overnight somehow, pay someone to count it, transport it, and all that.
I was looking at it from the consumer's point of view: credit cards save a lot of unnecessary, to me, loose change. Which is also true of debit cards, but one of the good things about credit cards is that they also afford you some kind of automatic insurance on your purchases.
As for keeping track of expenditure, I find it at least as easy to do with a credit card account as it is with cash.
Rule number 1, though, is that you simply must pay them off in full every month. There's little point in doing anything else, except in a really dire emergency.
I was looking at it from the consumer's point of view: credit cards save a lot of unnecessary, to me, loose change. Which is also true of debit cards, but one of the good things about credit cards is that they also afford you some kind of automatic insurance on your purchases.
As for keeping track of expenditure, I find it at least as easy to do with a credit card account as it is with cash.
Rule number 1, though, is that you simply must pay them off in full every month. There's little point in doing anything else, except in a really dire emergency.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
So, a fake and simulation made by college students and professors in 1 AD? Seems legitimate.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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So. Anyway.
You know this business with the three wise men from the East, right?
They followed a star which pointed them to where the bebbi Jezus lay. But before they got there, they went to King Herod and asked him where they should go. Then it gets confusing, because Herod doesn't know, does he? So, they make their own way there, to deliver their gifts (honestly, they could have just sent them via amazon, or something).
Then they go away, but Herod's still worried, so he organizes the slaughter of the innocents.
There's a lot of loose ends in this story.
But, principally, why did the Magi go and see Herod in the first place?
You know this business with the three wise men from the East, right?
They followed a star which pointed them to where the bebbi Jezus lay. But before they got there, they went to King Herod and asked him where they should go. Then it gets confusing, because Herod doesn't know, does he? So, they make their own way there, to deliver their gifts (honestly, they could have just sent them via amazon, or something).
Then they go away, but Herod's still worried, so he organizes the slaughter of the innocents.
There's a lot of loose ends in this story.
But, principally, why did the Magi go and see Herod in the first place?
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Because, they thought all particularly bright individuals are born in aristocracy, and not in filthy peasant stables.
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