Is intelligence important?

People who can speak 5 languages at 5 years old are proof that yes, some people really are smarter than others. In terms of improving the world, however, teaching people to think logically and objectively would do over 9000x more good than giving them a few extra IQ points.
 
People who can speak 5 languages at 5 years old are proof that yes, some people really are smarter than others. In terms of improving the world, however, teaching people to think logically and objectively would do over 9000x more good than giving them a few extra IQ points.

Seconded...
 
By that I mean, are there really some people that are inherently smarter than others?

Obviously we can point to the mentally disabled and say yes. That's fine, I'm not going to contest that idea in this post(I do have my doubts, but they aren't really based on anything). There are savants too, who I'm also going to throw into the "other" category. I'm talking about everyone else. Does a person's IQ score, for example, really mean anything in regards to their life or say anything about what they're able to achieve?

Most of the IQ differences between most humans seem pretty miniscule to me. One thing I often wonder about is if the difference is even noticeable by us. If all other variables were kept the same, and I somehow received 10 extra IQ points, would I actually feel smarter?

Note: I'm aware that IQ tests are pretty controversial, I don't know much of details. I just need a term to quantify intelligence, so if you want just replace 'IQ' with whatever seems most appropriate to you.

I think "being smart" has more to do with being interested in subjects that "smart people" are generally interested in, rather than some sort of inner level of intelligence. I think ease of learning comes from being interested in the subject, not in higher levels of intelligence.

If every human on the planet had their IQ raised by 10 or 20 points, should we expect to see an increase in everyone's quality of life? An increase in technological innovation? An increase in open-mindedness and all that other good stuff? I'm not convinced.

I'm aware that I'm not really saying anything revolutionary here, but I think this viewpoint has lots of implications for our society that aren't generally recognized. We need to shift our priorities. Schools shouldn't be seen as places where kids are sent to learn how "smart people" do things, they should be seen as tools for us to expand our knowledge. We shouldn't compare people based on standardized tests, grades, or even performance in general. Students shouldn't feel pressured to demonstrate their intelligence, they should be given the tools and resources to learn things and explore the subject areas that interest them. The focus of education shouldn't be to be smart and perform well(I'd even eliminate performance measures altogether), it should be to learn stuff.

Our educational system is set up like a competition. We point to certain people that have developed interests in certain subjects(mostly sciences) as being more intelligent. And then we give them some of the highest-paying jobs, the highest quality of education, etc.

Most people accept that as fair, but it really isn't. Most people could've developed interest in those fields and performed just as well, but didn't for whatever reason. There's nothing wrong with that, but our society punishes these people. They're branded as failures, given few resources to secure a good job, and many times end up doing the work that nobody else wants to do simply out of necessity. They often times also develop a self-fulfilling prophecy where they feel stupid and incapable of learning, which could have serious consequences for the quality of their lives.

That's discrimination, it's wrong, it's unhelpful, and it causes more problems than it solves. What if, instead, we didn't evaluate students based on their performance, and instead focused entirely on assisting them in the pursuit of their own educational interests? What if universities were made open to the public and anybody, at any age, with any academic background, could utilize the resources their for their own educational benefit? I think we'd see happier people, "smarter" people, people with a larger amount of skills, and of course, a freer society in general.

Would that be a better society, or am I just a naive anarchist? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I'm leaning towards the naive anarchist. But you are right about one thing, and it's a thing I've mentioned several times on this board. College education should be free.
 
College education should be free.

I disagrees.

When you subsidize a product or service, you hide the true costs. Consumers' cost-benefit judgements become less reflective of reality, producers have less incentive to deliver a better product or service, and the product or service in question gets over-consumed, leading to it being over-produced as well in response to demand. Ergo, a plague of philosophy majors working behind the counter at Starbucks.

Look, I'm not saying that a philosophy degree is a bad thing to have. If someone wants to pay $120,000 for their philosophy degree, then hey, whatever floats their boat. Similarly, if someone wants to pay $120,000 for a Lamborghini, then that's cool with me. But just like we shouldn't expect the taxpayers to fork out money for a luxury car, we shouldn't expect them to fork out money for what is essentially a luxury education.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, we have science, math, and engineering degrees: extremely useful to any sort of modern economy. This same usefulness means that people who have these degrees will earn crap tons of money, which in turn means that it's quite viable for them to simply take out a loan from a bank or work their way through college.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some incense to burn at the altar of the free market.
 
IQ tests try very hard to measure innate ability, disregarding knowledge or interest bias.
A score of 100 is average by definition (for whatever population it's standardised for at a given time, possibly that of the country the test was created for). All scores express deviation from the average - 130 means you scored in the top 2%, 70 means you scored in the bottom 2%.

IQ, or more loosely defined intelligence, can be useful to know. But it doesn't describe the worth or even potential of a person, and a high IQ is just not necessarily a good thing.
I've always known I was a lot more intelligent than the average person, but I'm pants at coping with it and more useless than the average person. For a start, I wish I could suffer fools gladly.

While this no longer results in daily violence as an adult, it's still alienating. Things that catch my interest (often: optimisation problem for things most people approach intuitively, spotting connections, identifying perception biases, game-like mechanics in real life, strange logical consequences of opinions people profess to hold) are as uninteresting to most people as general smalltalk is to me.
Learning and education can be difficult if you constantly spot mistakes and shoddy methodology in what's being taught but aren't quite intelligent enough that you can ignore instruction ("when should i think, and when just turn my brain off... if I even can?"). It's also frustrating to see others do well by just regurgitating things while you fall into unintended logical traps they don't even notice.

*

That said, there is a place for competition and there's a place for personal improvement, and the latter should be the focus most of the time. Successful athletes don't generally train by doing exactly what they do in competitions.
And personal improvement is something that's influenced at least as much by character, dedication and support by others as intelligence.
 
Aren't you describing some aspects of high-performing Aspergers, here?
 
Out of curiosity, is there a place to take a free IQ test?

I think I took one in school, and I iirc, it was like 120 or so, but I may be mistaken about that. All I remember is it was above 100. It's just a number that doesn't really mean anything in the real world. I can't even work on my own car (aside from change the oil), so that number doesn't get me a whole lot.
 
Aren't you describing some aspects of high-performing Aspergers, here?

Maybe. Certainly crossed my mind, but was never confirmed by any professional I consulted.
Still, comparable frustrations seem quite common among intelligent (as defined by IQ tests) people who don't fit that diagnosis.

Sorry if mingling in too much personal history was inappropriate. My point was that at least some intelligent people have unusual needs that, if unsatisfied, lead to considerable problems and unnecessary suffering down the road.
The OP made allowances for "disabilities". Generally, an IQ below 70 is classified as mental ******ation, no need for anything specific (the proverbial drop on the head or other relevant medical history). For the IQ classification system, it's just a flip side of Mensa elegibility (only 2% score lower/higher on IQ tests).
So if 100 Mensans secede and decide their new little state needs their own calibrated IQ scale, one of them is now officially ******ed.

Edit: @Disgustipated: Not aware of any that enjoys any kind of reputation. Some high-IQ societies will have professionally made preliminary tests for prospective members to check whether it makes sense to take a formal one... but those usually don't try to give accurate IQ results across the board (makes sense, as they just need to discriminate well around the entrance requirement).
 
I think personality is more important. I think that will have a much greater effect on your life. Your background and family support a million times more. How many 'famous' people are so in their own right? Most have a famous relative or a dad who is important in the business once you start investigating.
 
What would improve the world is if people found important things interesting. We spend a tremendous amount of time, calories, and productivity on unimportant things. Would the sciences improve if we could bump the average IQ by 3? Very likely. Would sports? Probably not. Based on modern riots, we seem to be maximally enjoying sports

College education should be free.

College education is nearly free. It's the accreditation that's costly
 
But I thought that IQ test scores are based around an average. But I see what you mean, I think.
 
Intelligence is not as important as luck, circumstance and hard work.

Still important, but not as much as the other things I listed by far. In particular, the other things can actually make you more intelligent even if you are innately 'dumb'.
 
We will see. Tis the weekend. The real world of work begins tomorrow. Unlike you ive not replied to every thread on the first page. Addicted? :p
 
Your original posts asks if intelligence is important, but you didn't say important for what?

Society? Individual Success? Happiness?

If you look at studies like the Chicago Longitudinal Study and some of the meta studies being done; it's becoming apparent that the human mind is very elastic, but has some definite choke points as it develops.

So while we may all start out with fairly equal potential, a lot of what we think of as intelligence is learned and locked in during the early years of our life. Even aspects of our personality that we don't think of as intelligence, but which are important for success are developed at very specific times during our childhood.

Here's a quick list (that I hope others will expand upon)

Language - your brain soaks up languages, including the ability to read, during fairly specific period of your early childhood. It's certainly possible to pick up a second language or learn to read later; but those who do have to work much harder and are seldom as proficient.

Math - another skill where learning during a key phase of development is key to proficiency. Basic proficiency at math is key to abstract problem solving, so kids who don't learn early struggle more and more down the road.

Problem Solving - give your kids building blocks and stuff, they need to learn mechanics and problem solving nice and early.

Attention span and forethought - kids who don't learn self discipline grow into adults who have trouble making the decisions needed to lead stable lives. I've seen this in person when I supervised staff from a very low income area. Even though some of the people we hired for certain jobs were desperate for work and had the best intentions, they still made bone headed decisions that resulted in the loss of their jobs. When I did exit interviews they consistent said they were really sorry, that they realized what they had done, but couldn't stop themselves from making poor decisions. Studies have shown that this is typical of people raised in homes where impulse control skills were lacking in adults.

Personal interaction: like impulse control, this is something we pick up as children that forms behavior patterns that are very hard to break; even when the people with poor habits realize they have them and want to change.
 
I agree that intelligence is not a fixed attribute.

People who are traumatized can exhibit behaviours indistinguishable from those of people who have severe learning difficulties.
 
the intelligence I'd like is knowing how to survive the coming apocalypse

when we're back in the stone age, I want a good tool kit and a wealth of knowledge about plants and animals

or be visiting some barren landscape inhabited by intelligent people
 
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