Is Islam a race?

[AlpsStranger]

Who determines which version is valid? ( Unless one version of Islam is the One True Religion after all, I guess. )

This is the problem whenever you criticize a religion, I suppose. I admit that in the case of both Christianity and Islam I tend to view the more fundamentalist, black&white versions as the core and the gentler versions as exceptions. I suppose I usually don't worry about the gentler version of any religion since it is less likely to kick my door down. As an outsider looking in I'm more prone to thinking in terms of potentially threatening/bothering sects and leave the Unitarian-type versions alone. I also tend to apply this standard to Christianity, which I think you have probably noticed if you've seen me around the forum for any length of time.

I confess that is probably my personal bias when approaching any religion. The disconnect in the discussion is probably along these lines.

So it's understandable why people hate video games, right?

I understand what you're trying to say. See my response above.

I've tried my best to explain myself here. If I didn't satisfy any of you I apologize. You may just not like me that much, which isn't a huge problem since I'm basically just some guy drifting through the interwebs. As it is I'm going to let this suffice, go to sleep, and stop digging my hole any deeper.

No hard feelings I hope.

 

[ParkCungHee]

So do you think outsiders looking in are right to associate playing video games with Nazi sympathy and school shootings?

Who determines which version is valid?

 

[AlpsStranger]

Probably not, but I'm not trying to ban or restrict Islam so I haven't taken on the same burden.

I said I didn't like a religion. I specifically said I didn't hate people just for following it, and then complained about a specific beef I had with some of the Muslims I've met.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Islam a race? Apparently so

 

[ParkCungHee]

Why not? Generally, gamers are quite sympathetic to both those things, so why are your views on video game culture more correct?

 

[AlpsStranger]

You're trying to get me to do the thing where I say that Islam is peaceful and the people who use it to promote violence are just twisting it, right?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Gamers are generally sympathetic with what now?

Nazis. Generally speaking, most video gamers (at least the ones I talk to) are quite sympathetic to Adolf Hitler and are vicious anti-semites.

And people who shoot up schools. Well, not specifically schools. They seem to be big fans of Michael Dorner too.

What makes you so certain that these AREN'T the correct way for fans of Video Games to act?

 

[AlpsStranger]

Right, because something you completely made up is comparable to actual regions where the practices I'm criticizing take place.

Look, I'll give you the PC response okay. "Islam is wicked cool and everyone who uses this awesome, completely peaceful religion to in any way bring harm on another person is just twisting the Koran or a Hadith to say something it doesn't."

There, now I've conceded and you can call off the kumbaya brigade.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Right, because something you completely made up is completely comparable to actual regions where the practices I'm criticizing take place.

Why would you accuse me of making something like this up? I see this every day.

There, now I've conceded and you can call off the kumbaya brigade.

You know, if your ignorance really was equal to other people's knowledge, you wouldn't have to throw a fit every time there's an argument.

 

[AlpsStranger]

My opinion towards Islam is not favorable with my current knowledge. If anything I read, see, or otherwise experience in the future changes that then so be it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Who determines which version is valid?

Apparently, you.

This is the problem whenever you criticize a religion, I suppose. I admit that in the case of both Christianity and Islam I tend to view the more fundamentalist, black&white versions as the core and the gentler versions as exceptions. I suppose I usually don't worry about the gentler version of any religion since it is less likely to kick my door down. As an outsider looking in I'm more prone to thinking in terms of potentially threatening/bothering sects and leave the Unitarian-type versions alone. I also tend to apply this standard to Christianity, which I think you have probably noticed if you've seen me around the forum for any length of time.

I confess that is probably my personal bias when approaching any religion. The disconnect in the discussion is probably along these lines.

It appears to be the case. In my personal experience the Muslims I know don't display the behavior they're so often accused of. They're not hesitant to make fun of themselves and their religion, they're not touchy about others doing so.

Look, I'll give you the PC response okay. "Islam is wicked cool and everyone who uses this awesome, completely peaceful religion to in any way bring harm on another person is just twisting the Koran or a Hadith to say something it doesn't."

I'd also argue against that for the same reasons.

 

[ParkCungHee]

My opinion towards Islam is not favorable with my current knowledge. If anything I read, see, or otherwise experience in the future changes that then so be it.

My opinion towards you is not favorable with my current knowledge. If anything you read, see, or otherwise experience in the future challenges what you currently know, you'll probably throw a fit again.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Religion doesn't make man, man makes religion.
Elaborate.

 

[Borachio]

OK.

Religion doesn't make man, man makes religion. And woman makes man.

Elaborate some more.

 

[El_Machinae]

I really have no time for the "Islam is a special evil because the Koran" brand of douchebag atheism.

You should, or you'll never understand the "I dislike Islam, but love Muslims" comment.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

However i think betting is not allowed, so it is a bit dull.

 

[Arwon]

Islamabad? No. Islamagood.

 

[classical_hero]

A good student of history would know this. Something that the writer of the article is clueless about.

Even the difference between black and white was an artificial construct, with 10% of every black generation in America turning white. Same with Latinos and white, many Latinos have long argued they are white. In America, you were black according to the "one-drop rule", meaning one drop of black blood. There is nothing scientific about race. Obama is as white as he is black, but because of social constructs, he is called black.

Hutu's and Tutsi's are another example. And Europe in the 1800's saw an explosion of new "races" that did not exist before, based on eugenics and university students classifying themselves as new races based on language and history.

Tell that to the US census. All he is doing is using terms that are commonly bandied around. If you were correct then there would be no racism laws. You can only write an article in the current construct we live in, not in an ideal world, that you are describing.

Is Islam a race?

Yes, I think so.

The story of the origination is here:

Genesis 16

Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the Lord judge between me and thee.

6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

7 And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.

9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.

12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

13 And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

14 Wherefore the well was called Beerlahairoi; behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered.

15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.

16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Arab does not equal Muslim. I know of Arabs who are Christian. Just because you are describing how Arabs came about, doesn't mean that it meant that Islam was around back then.

I'll make a deal with you Classical. I'll stop referring to it as a race, if you stop referring to abortion as murder.

This is apparent. Islam should be allowed to be mocked and ridiculed every chance we get. As is the case with all religions or political affiliations for instance.

1. Never.
2. That doesn't seem to fit when so many people are not willing stand to say that. As we have seen with the current tour of Geert Wilders in Australia we have seen so many people do their very best to stop him from saying anything, including intimidation and threats of violence. So far it is only the far left doing that, so for some reason they hate seeing an honest debate about the effects of Islam.

But as far as discrimination and persecution in Western countries is concerned, it is just the opposite.

And in which African countries are "Muslim militia occasionally" killing "lots of Christians" where the Christians aren't doing the same?

Actually you are starting to see much more in the West that it is Muslims who are causing the Problems. We have seen sharp rises in "Honour" killings and even religious deaths, such as the beheading of two Copts in NJ by a Muslim man. In fact some parts of Europe are now no longer safe for Europeans to enter. Lets not forget that child in the Sydney protests.

Spoiler Large Image :

"Oh no, people are incorrectly labelling our mindless hatred as racism instead of bigotry!"

If Islam, a religion with a billion adherents, was anywhere close to the sort of unthinking jihadi hive-mind some people like suggest, we'd all be dhimmi already.

I really have no time for the "Islam is a special evil because the Koran" brand of douchebag atheism.

Who determines which version is valid? ( Unless one version of Islam is the One True Religion after all, I guess. )

This is the problem whenever you criticize a religion, I suppose. I admit that in the case of both Christianity and Islam I tend to view the more fundamentalist, black&white versions as the core and the gentler versions as exceptions. I suppose I usually don't worry about the gentler version of any religion since it is less likely to kick my door down. As an outsider looking in I'm more prone to thinking in terms of potentially threatening/bothering sects and leave the Unitarian-type versions alone. I also tend to apply this standard to Christianity, which I think you have probably noticed if you've seen me around the forum for any length of time.

I confess that is probably my personal bias when approaching any religion. The disconnect in the discussion is probably along these lines.

Let's find some quotes from the Koran and other Islamic texts that show what Islam is about.
Here is the Koran
Here are the Hadiths
So you can use them to look up any quotes that I use.

Does it argue to behead those who don't follow Islam? Yes.
Koran 8:12 When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Koran 47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

I can continue on other teachings from the Koran that you won't see mentioned in the Bible.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

1. Never.

Fine. Stop complaining when others misuse definitions for ideological purposes.

2. That doesn't seem to fit when so many people are not willing stand to say that. As we have seen with the current tour of Geert Wilders in Australia we have seen so many people do their very best to stop him from saying anything, including intimidation and threats of violence. So far it is only the far left doing that, so for some reason they hate seeing an honest debate about the effects of Islam.

As I said: "This is apparent. Islam should be allowed to be mocked and ridiculed every chance we get. As is the case with all religions or political affiliations for instance." It fits perfectly with my take on the matter, and with many leftie sentiments.

And I want Geert Wilders talking. And I want those who share his sentiments to speak up as well. Because their sentiments are based on easily refuted foundations. If those sentiments are not uttered, they can't be rebutted.

Let's find some quotes from the Koran and other Islamic texts that show what Islam is about.
Here is the Koran
Here are the Hadiths
So you can use them to look up any quotes that I use.

Does it argue to behead those who don't follow Islam? Yes.
Koran 8:12 When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Koran 47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish

Honest debate you say?

I can continue on other teachings from the Koran that you won't see mentioned in the Bible.

Stoning people on the drop of a hat?

"But that's different!"

Yeah, it is. Because it is different when it's your religion being criticized.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Does it argue to behead those who don't follow Islam? Yes.
Koran 8:12 When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Koran 47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

I can continue on other teachings from the Koran that you won't see mentioned in the Bible.

Theres lots of funny bible passages which are not in the Koran either. From the shallowest google search:

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)
"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)
"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)
"When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an ass and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-28)
"And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)
"Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
"Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)
"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)
"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)