Is Islam a race?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Classy Hero Baby, when you react to those passages, please do so in a manner that cannot be applied to the passages you posted.

By the way, I forgot: cheers for replying to comments in your thread

And I also have a sign for you:

 

[_random_]

Well that person is clearly just ignorant of the Bible, as hanging was never used as a method of execution by Hebrews.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

True. Not much blood will end up upon them that way.

 

[Carras Dad]

"Oh no, people are incorrectly labelling our mindless hatred as racism instead of bigotry!"

also, that.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Actually you are starting to see much more in the West that it is Muslims who are causing the Problems. We have seen sharp rises in "Honour" killings and even religious deaths, such as the beheading of two Copts in NJ by a Muslim man. In fact some parts of Europe are now no longer safe for Europeans to enter. Lets not forget that child in the Sydney protests.

How many Christians do you think that toddler has killed so far?

It is simply no contest compared to the "Problems" that Islamophobic bigotry cause. A handful of Muslim fanatics are easily trumped by a sizable portion of the population of the US, Europe, and apparently even Australia.

 

[Leoreth]

It's always funny to stay away from OT for two days and find six pages of something which could be resolved with the first few posts.

I can continue on other teachings from the Koran that you won't see mentioned in the Bible.

You're right, we won't. The Quran is indeed "special" in that its archaic morality isn't found in the Bible. That book has other cruel archaisms to offer. Or do you really believe that people who grow the wrong crops next to each other and wear garments made of different kinds of threads should be put to death?

But if it's Christianity or the Bible in question, all sorts of rationalizations become permissible. Numerous and even contradictory excuses are suddenly invoked, like how even literalists don't have to take certain passages literally if that would make them look bad, how Jesus changed some things even though it's never made explicit what he actually changed (OT stuff that Christians still like to believe in seems to be exempt), or convoluted etymological games to come up with a suitably modern-yet-not-too-progressive interpretation.

The Quran does not get that luxury. All Muslims automatically believe in the most negative interpretation of the most unfortunate segments of their holy text. Their own ability to interpret their text in context with the world around them is simply disregarded.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I never got all that controversy. The Mosque was clearly protected by the first amendment. Despite everything else I've said I don't think people have the right to tell American Muslims where they can and cannot build their Mosques. EDIT: Or was it a community center that included a Mosque? I forget.

Herman Cain tried to say the difference was that Islam was a "legal system" and not just a religion. I can almost see what he means ( not really ) but a Republican saying that is too rich. Half of the definition of Republicanism is governance via Christianity.

@classical_hero: It takes a lot of scrubbing to make the Bible look better than the Koran. It doesn't come out of the box that way.

 

[Neomega]

Tell that to the US census. All he is doing is using terms that are commonly bandied around. If you were correct then there would be no racism laws. You can only write an article in the current construct we live in, not in an ideal world, that you are describing.

And that current contruct is race is a social construct.

As I already said Islamaphobia is just like anti-semitism.

Note: in our "current construct" you can choose neither "Jewish" or "Muslim" as race or ethnic group in the U.S. census.

But you can choose Black, White, Latino, Native American, Pacific Islander, etc etc...

So in "the current construct" Jews are not a race. So again, your author fails as he claims Islamaphobia is not like anti-semitism because Jews are a race, when in "the current construct" they actually aren't. So anti-semites don't attack Jews for "what they are" they attack them for their religion, just like Islamaphobes do not attack muslims for what they are, they attack them for their religion.

Neo-nazis don't say "Jews are an abomination! Except of course, the ones who don't actually have Jewish blood passed on to them from their mothers, or the ones who became Jewish by converting to Judaism, or whose family converted to Judaism in the past 200 years, those ones are ok, oh, and maybe the ones that don't speak Hebrew... ...but the rest of the Jews Stink!"

Anti-semites don't care how or when one became Jewish. They just hate all Jews. Just like Islamaphobes don't care whether someone converted to Islam recently or comes from a long lineage of Muslim families.

And I can't help but notice how caricatured muslims are allowed in US media all the time, it totally reminds me of Nazi political cartoons and movies of Jews. Perhaps the greatest comment was this one:

Jews are the worst! At least with Muslims you know where you stand with them.

 

[AlpsStranger]

To me "Islamaphobe" calls to mind the people who felt the need to explicitly ban Sharia law in Oklahoma. I suppose they should ban alien invasions and undead armies while they're at it.

 

[Leoreth]

Well, alien invasions and undead armies at least aren't directly excluded by the US constitution.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I think what makes me the most angry about the wannabe Sharia banning people from Oklahoma is that no small number of them probably support any number of laws based entirely on religious reasoning themselves. It's the "my **** don't stink" problem.

 

[El_Machinae]

The "Sharia Law" ADR controversies are soooo tiring if you understand that aspect of law.

 

[Borachio]

Muslim_Council_of_Britain would seem to represent the moderate face of Islam in the UK.

Following the 7 July 2005 London bombings, the MCB issued statements expressing its disgust at the events: "All of us must unite in helping the police to capture these murderers."[18]

The Muslim Council of Britain has strongly condemned the 2003 invasion of Iraq as "a massive disconnect between public opinion – including Muslim opinion – on the one side and the political classes on the other".[19] The group condemns terrorism by Muslims and non-Muslims alike and has urged Muslims to help in the fight against terrorism.[20]

Following allegations that police had wire-tapped a Muslim Member of Parliament, the Council said it was vital "to hold to account the improper behaviour of senior police officers."[21]

In February 2006, the MCB urged MPs to vote for the Lords amendment to the Terrorism Act 2006, which removed the 'glorification of terrorism' clause from the bill.[22] They stated that the bill was perceived as "unfairly targeting Muslims and stifling legitimate debate".[22] The bill was eventually passed without the amendment by 315 votes to 277.[23]

The MCB has co-operated with trades union and issued a joint statement with the Trades Union Congress urging better community relations and encouraging Muslims to join trade unions.[24]

On 3 March 2008, the MCB criticised the Foreign Secretary David Miliband's response to Israel's killing of over 100 Palestinians in Gaza as "blatantly one-sided", and said: "If we are serious about wanting peace, we must act as honest brokers, not partisan bystanders."[25]

When schoolteacher Gillian Gibbons was jailed in Sudan for allowing her class to name a teddy bear by the same name as the Islamic Prophet Muhammad, the MCB condemned the incident as "a gross overreaction" and said the Sudanese authorities lacked basic common sense

On the radio today, I heard a muslim leader condemn the actions of three men who have been found guilty of planning a bomb attack designed to kill more people than the 7/7 bombings. He said he wanted to talk to them in order to find out what mindset had led them to do this. He also stated that no Muslim scholars that he knew of would condone such action in any way. (Unfortunately I can't find a link to him.)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well that person is clearly just ignorant of the Bible, as hanging was never used as a method of execution by Hebrews.

Are you sure?

22 “And if a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God. You shall not defile your land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance.

This seems to imply that hanging was used sometimes, although I guess it is possible that they merely hanged dead corpses from trees to publicize the executions and humiliate the condemned.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Attacks against Islam often take the form of attacks against Muslims as "ragheads" and the Arab language. The ignorant have one image of Muslims, and that is of Arab men showing "ALLAHU AKBAR!" and blowing themselves up. So while Islam is a religion that claims people from many ethnicities, accusing someone attacking of it of being racist might be right on the mark. Now, if they're criticizing Islam for being authoritarian, overly traditionalist, and patriarchal, that avenue can't marked as racist.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Islam itself isn't a race, and I don't think that most of the people who have a problem with Islam would really have a problem with an Arab Christian. So calling anti-Islamic views "Racist" is indeed stupid and incorrect. Now, calling them "Prejudiced" would be completely acceptable.

I don't really like Islam much and Muslims should convert to Evangelical Christianity Obviously most Muslims in Islamic countries either support authoritarian ideas or at least tolerate governments that do. But the nonsense that there is a mass conspiracy by Muslims to take over the world and that every war in a Muslim country is just stopping them from fighting us "Over here" really needs to stop...

 

[Formaldehyde]

I wouldn't be so sure about the "Arab Christian" part if I were you, or any Christians for that matter, at least in the case of some Israelis:

Price of hate: Radical Israeli settlers vandalize Christian monastery

A picture released by the Franciscan monastery on October 2, 2012, shows anti-Christian graffiti denigrating Jesus with the words "price tag."(AFP Photo)

Link to video.


Link to video.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I'm going to have to look at it but yeah I'd expect that from/in Israel, especially considering Israel is at war with an Arab nation (The Palestinians, of course I get that their status as a "nation" is disputed). I really had more the West in mind when I made that post, or America in particular.

 

[Borachio]

I wouldn't be so sure about the "Arab Christian" part if I were you, or any Christians for that matter, at least in the case of some Israelis:

Price of hate: Radical Israeli settlers vandalize Christian monastery

Link to video.


Link to video.

Hmm. Weeeell, I don't know. I can't say an old Jewish person and some nerdy looking young ones shouting at me would make me think I'm being discriminated against, particularly.

And given the history of how Christians have treated Jewish people for the last ~2,000 years, I really do have some sympathy for them being a bit miffed. Don't you?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't. I don't know any 2,000 year old Christians.

If all it takes for being miffed is that a certain group you subscribe to had a run in with someone 2,000 years ago, we're in a bad state.