Is racism okay if it's against...

[Ryika]

...fictional races? I wondered about this after reading some discussions in the World of Warcraft Trade Chat, in which a Human Paladin and a Worgen Rogue went into a long discussion about which horde races are the worst. Clearly, the answer is the Orcs, after all, they have brought us Thrall aka Green Jesus, but let's get back to topic.

I see two arguments here: On the one hand, it's obviously just them having some innocent fun, but on the other hand, does it not facilitate a mindset in which actual racism is normalized and gains cultural acceptance? Should we not free ourselves from such thoughts instead of glorifying them in a fictional setting? Or is it all just for fun, and has no effect on real life?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Orc Lives Matter!

 

[Broken_Erika]

Cardassian Power!

 

[Ryika]

Orc Lives Matter!

I don't know, have you seen what happened when they invaded Azeroth? Like... twice?

You know, I’ve never seen hatred like this. To me, they’re not even people. It’s so, so sad. I mean, morality’s just gone. Morals have flown out the window. We deserve so much better than this.

Ohhhhh... the memery. But will people get it?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Er'c Lives Matter!

 

[Lexicus]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasticRacism

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Racism in fiction has been around for a very long time, so it's not a new thing.

Fiction as a metaphor for real life... it was pretty blatantly brought home to people in the Star Trek episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield."

 

[Berzerker]

...fictional races? I wondered about this after reading some discussions in the World of Warcraft Trade Chat, in which a Human Paladin and a Worgen Rogue went into a long discussion about which horde races are the worst. Clearly, the answer is the Orcs, after all, they have brought us Thrall aka Green Jesus, but let's get back to topic.

I see two arguments here: On the one hand, it's obviously just them having some innocent fun, but on the other hand, does it not facilitate a mindset in which actual racism is normalized and gains cultural acceptance? Should we not free ourselves from such thoughts instead of glorifying them in a fictional setting? Or is it all just for fun, and has no effect on real life?

did the Orcs deserve their scorn?

I wouldn't accuse someone of racism for thinking the neighborhood just went downhill at the sight of Spaceballs climbing out a spacehip's nostrils

 

[inthesomeday]

If race is real in the fantasy setting it makes a little more sense, but is still messed up. Like, stereotypes about orcs might actually be true and based in biology, depending on the universe in question, versus in real life, where stereotypes are neither of those things.

Respect is still important though, especially institutionally. I'd say that, if an orc has similar biological tendencies to something like a wild hippo in the given universe then it's sensible to interact cautiously with them, but if they are pretty much just humans with reskins and different physical traits then it's not as sensible because they can probably control themselves.

That's one of the things that can be a little weird in some fantasy worlds, it's like orcs are both human-like with the ability to build societies and complex structures and linguistic communication, but then have wild animal rages and stuff like that. It seems contradictory sometimes.

 

[Yeekim]

There obviously can be legitimate in-universe reasons to be racist against a particular race.
No idea whether that's the case in WoW.

 

[Berzerker]

course wrt the human race we aint so different as to give rationality to racism, but if the Mongols eg were trampling your country I wouldn't fault the victims for hating them.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Aliens could make racism great again.

It is a fun scenario really. Those that now decry racism in any deviation of solidarity may in such an event be staunch racists, without even realizing so, because it would seem as the most natural thing in the world.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Remain Klingon !

I don't have much of a problem with fictional racism in general, as long as the execution isn't extremely simplistic and uninteresting, like making all (except maybe the token defector) members of a species basically the same character. AlwaysChaoticEvil is a race trope I really dislike.

It can also be problematic if it draws from stereotypes about real ethnic groups in a away that looks like veiled real world racism. Like if somebody wrote a fantasy story about inscrutable and duplicitous dwarves who all have black hair, yellow skin and narrow eyes.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

as long as the execution isn't extremely simplistic and uninteresting

I, too, am a man with a passion for elaborate, drawn-out executions!

 

[civvver]

That's like asking is violence ok in video games?

Video games aren't real life. Are you actually racist towards orcs in real life? No and it's impossible since they don't exist.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I don't have much of a problem with fictional racism in general, as long as the execution isn't extremely simplistic and uninteresting, like making all (except maybe the token defector) members of a species basically the same character. AlwaysChaoticEvil is a race trope I really dislike.

This is why I came to like the Ferengi. They were cardboard cutouts in TNG - nothing but greedy, sex-obsessed trolls. DS9 isn't my favorite modern Trek series by far, but they did really improve the Ferengi and flesh out their characters and Ferengi society as a whole.

Maybe if they'd done something similar with the Klingons... show us Klingon accountants, farmers, school teachers, pacifists... instead of loud blustering about honor and killing, then maybe I wouldn't have such an exasperated and view of the Klingons.

There's a part of the D&D guidelines that states that dwarves and elves hate each other, and so if you have both in the same adventuring group, be prepared for trouble. Funny how Dragonlance made it work out, with Flint and Tanis being good friends. In my own ongoing NaNoWriMo project there were a dwarf and elf who were best friends.

 

[Light Cleric]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasticRacism

To this day when I see that trope I still knee-jerk think it's a trope along the lines of "Racism is fantastic!" instead of fantasy racism

 

[Berzerker]

I apologize to the Mongols, I keep using them as the epitome of marauders worthy of hate. The Mongols haven't been doing that for quite a while. We got much more recent marauders to hate

 

[inthesomeday]

I apologize to the Mongols, I keep using them as the epitome of marauders worthy of hate. The Mongols haven't been doing that for quite a while. We got much more recent marauders to hate

NATO?

 

[Akka]

I don't have much of a problem with fictional racism in general, as long as the execution isn't extremely simplistic and uninteresting, like making all (except maybe the token defector) members of a species basically the same character. AlwaysChaoticEvil is a race trope I really dislike.

The rebound version is just as much an annoyance, actually. When you make other races just, in fact, humans in disguise and their non-physical "racial" nuances are just cultures. It just showcase lack of imagination and make the aesop far too predictable and anvilicious (yeah, I do read TvTropes too ).

And in fact, the "always chaotic evil" works better when the race is supposed to be a nameless, unknowable threat. Zergs and Darkspawns lost a lot of their appeal to me when they started to make them things which can communicate and you can reason with and they have all their own motivations which can be understood by humans.