Is the combat penalty for mounted units attacking cities still in the game?

[megabearsfan]

I've been playing as Byzantium, and was wondering how much of a difference it makes to be able to conquer cities will all the free heavy cavalry units. But I'm not sure of the magnitude of the combat penalty that mounted units are supposed to have when attacking cities. I tried looking it up on the wikis and Civilopedia, but couldn't find a mention of it. I loaded up another game with another civ, and tried attacking a city with a Horseman, but no penalty appeared in the combat preview widget. The penalty is also not listed in the unit ability tooltip when highlighting over the unit icon when it's selected.

So is this penalty still in the game or what? If so, how much is it?
And does that part of Basil's ability just not actually do anything?

 

[Buktu]

The penalty is not directly against cities, it is against walls. All melee units get a 85% damage reduction against walls (50% for ranged apart from sea and bombardclass units which both dont have a malus). The penalty is also not listed in th combat preview since it does simply change the damage output but not the combat strength of your unit.
Since cavalry cant use siege towers and battering rams that part of basils ability comes in quite handy if you are attacking walled cities.

 

[megabearsfan]

Oh, so the penalty is not specifically applied to mounted units; it is applied to all melee units. So Byzantine light and heavy cavalry ignore this damage reduction, but it would still apply to other Byzantine melee units. I assume this damage reduction also applies to Encampments with walls. I was thinking there was an additional penalty for mounted units that attacked cities. Maybe there was in an earlier build of the game, but it was removed in a patch at some point?

 

[kaspergm]

I was thinking there was an additional penalty for mounted units that attacked cities. Maybe there was in an earlier build of the game, but it was removed in a patch at some point?

There was such a penalty in Civ5. Maybe that’s what’s causing the confusion?

 

[Victoria]

I assume this damage reduction also applies to Encampments with walls

indeed.
The major part of the original discussion was around mounted being so OP against walls but I believe it was introduced in game as for melee from the beginning.

 

[Alaindor]

But isn't there also the fact that mounted units can not benefit from siege towers, whereas melee units can? So Basil's ability is also useful in that respect for early warfare

 

[Tuvok694]

So Basil's ability is also useful in that respect for early warfare

Emphasis on "early". I could not win many games with Basil because the enemy had renaissance walls while I had only bombards, some melee units and tons of tagmas or cuirassiers. NO CHANCE to do the slightest damage to a city with renaissance walls.

 

[Linklite]

Emphasis on "early". I could not win many games with Basil because the enemy had renaissance walls while I had only bombards, some melee units and tons of tagmas or cuirassiers. NO CHANCE to do the slightest damage to a city with renaissance walls.

Did you have Crusade? I found that with Crusade, Taxis abd the fact that you get crap tons of the most modern cavalry (upto 4 per city), I snowballed very easily after a somewhat slow start (having to set up a religion and get entertainment complexes going). Lots of free and zero maintenance heavy cavalry that have a 10+ bonus to CS suffer no loss of CS against walls does wonders. I find that because I'm saving ECs so I can get the more modern units for free maintenance that I'm having problems with amenities.

 

[PiR]

Those free cavalries are OP. And before that, the dromon is also very powerful.

More, you don't need to attack any Renaissance walls if you find it hard, if you have a religion then you can just kill the units outside and all cities will convert to your religion... another way to win!

 

[Planktonic]

Emphasis on "early". I could not win many games with Basil because the enemy had renaissance walls while I had only bombards, some melee units and tons of tagmas or cuirassiers. NO CHANCE to do the slightest damage to a city with renaissance walls.

Yeah, I don't get this either. The key is to convert the enemy city to Basil's religion, which you can do either by killing enemy units nearby or conventionally using Apostle and Missionary charges. Once that's done, your Tagma and Cuirassiers should definitely be able to take on even Renaissance walls, even without bombards.

In my ongoing Byzantium game (first time with the civ) my Tagma have a base strength of 50, +9 from Taxis, +4 from Wars of Religion, and +10 from Crusade, and +5 from a Great General. That puts them at a combat strength of 78- almost equal to artillery against walls. You definitely can take on Renaissance walls with Byzantium, actually much easier to do it with Byzantium than with pretty much any other civ, where only siege units will be effective.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

The penalty is not directly against cities, it is against walls. All melee units get a 85% damage reduction against walls (50% for ranged apart from sea and bombardclass units which both dont have a malus).

I know I'm a bit late, but this is only partially true.
- Melee attacks (melee, anticav, cavalry, naval melee, etc) receive no penalty against cities but 85% penalty against walls.
- Ranged attacks (land, not siege) receive -17 ranged strength against cities and 50% penalty on top if the city has walls.
- Siege units receive no penalty at all.
- Naval ranged attacks (including naval raiders) don't receive -17 ranged strength against cities but the 50% penalty against walls still applies.