New Civ Game Guide: Russia

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Exactly. Calcutta could very justifiably appear on the city list of a Modern Age British Empire, but I don’t think this would go down well at all.

In previous games India had cities from modern-day Pakistan

 

[untitledjuan]

Exactly. Calcutta could very justifiably appear on the city list of a Modern Age British Empire, but I don’t think this would go down well at all.

Fun fact:

Portugal's city list back in Civ4 included many Brazilian cities, as well as Macau in China and other Portuguese colonial outposts in Africa and India.

The Netherlands city list in Civ6 included Batavia, which is modern-day Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia.

If I'm not mistaken, Spain's city list in Civ2 included cities in Colombia and Argentina, while France's city list had cities in Canada and even in Belgium, for some reason.

 

[Solver]

Exactly. Calcutta could very justifiably appear on the city list of a Modern Age British Empire, but I don’t think this would go down well at all.

I'd argue this is worse than Calcutta as a British city due to the fact that Mykolaiv is a city under attack now, and the Russian justification for this often mentions that those cities were founded by the Russian Empire, and the land has always been Russian. So yes, this is a point of contention.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I'd argue this is worse than Calcutta as a British city due to the fact that Mykolaiv is a city under attack now, and the Russian justification for this often mentions that those cities were founded by the Russian Empire, and the land has always been Russian. So yes, this is a point of contention.

Yeah, this is the key. The game could serve as a sort of tacit endorsement of Putin's grounds for attacking a sovereign state.

 

[Kankan]

In one hand, if that city was part of the Imperial Russia at the time, that doesn't really have any big connection with the USRR and current Russia that is more related with Putin wanting Ukraine, then I don't see any ill intent. But at the same time, would probably still be better to not have used it, just like how I think the civs games also don't do things like having USA cities name on a England civ because some of those cities were founded by England while USA wasn't independent, (plus other examples like Portugal with Brazil, etc) which would likely get some Americans angry.

It’s also important to note that in Civ6, 2 of Portugal’s cities (Diu and Goa) are both cities in India today, 2 of Spain’s cities (Havana and Manila) are the capitals of Cuba and the Philippines respectively, the Dutch also had 2 cities that today are in a different country (Batavia is today in Indonesia and Fort Zeelandia is today in Taiwan) and multiple other civs in Civ6 (Hungary, Norway and Sweden as well as a couple others) have cities in what today are in different countries which have been a source of real life dispute or said country’s rule over that country was notably brutal or oppressive.

I think it’s more so the chosen cities are often meant to represent the borders of the civ for the selected time period but understandably it can be very controversial to call Manila for instance Spanish, or any Transylvanian city Hungarian.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Yeah, this is the key. The game could serve as a sort of tacit endorsement of Putin's grounds for attacking a sovereign state.

By that coin any acknowledgement of historical fact that has ever been used as a justification for jingoism would be a tacit endorsement of the same. This debate reminds me of the absurd movement in academia to stop referring to 'Anglo-Saxons' because they have been co-opted by the British far-right. How far will you recede just to give up space to bad faith actors? One should have the courage to accept a historical fact without conceding ground to the xenophobic and nationalist ideologies that sprout from it

 

[untitledjuan]

It’s also important to note that in Civ6, 2 of Portugal’s cities (Diu and Goa) are both cities in India today, 2 of Spain’s cities (Havana and Manila) are the capitals of Cuba and the Philippines respectively, the Dutch also had 2 cities that today are in a different country (Batavia is today in Indonesia and Fort Zeelandia is today in Taiwan) and multiple other civs in Civ6 (Hungary, Norway and Sweden as well as a couple others) have cities in what today are in different countries which have been a source of real life dispute or said country’s rule over that country was notably brutal or oppressive.

I think it’s more so the chosen cities are often meant to represent the borders of the civ for the selected time period but understandably it can be very controversial to call Manila for instance Spanish, or any Transylvanian city Hungarian.

I think this was one of the reasons why they went with the name Gran Colombia in Civ6 instead of just Colombia, even in the voiced lines of Simón Bolívar.

Simón Bolívar was president of Colombia, whose oficial name was Republic of Colombia (which is the same nation that still exists today), not Gran Colombia. He never used the term Gran Colombia in any letter, document or speech, it was just Colombia, it only happened to be waaay bigger back then. The term "Gran Colombia" was invented by historians decades after Bolívar to refer to the period when Colombia was larger.

Had they went with the historically accurate name of "Colombia" including Panama City, Caracas and Quito, I bet the Panamanians or Venezuelans would be upset to see a Colombian civilization in-game owning their cities, even if that was historically accurate.

 

[fantsu]

Might be my favorite civ in base game. Of course hard to be sure until I actually see how it goes.

 

[Gori the Grey]

How far will you recede just to give up space to bad faith actors?

Just this far. Just so far as not to give tacit endorsement to an ongoing military invasion.

I'll use the word Anglo-Saxon without concern for how it may have been coopted. And I don't see the two matters as inherently analogous.

 

[queenpea]

I thought it was a way of referring to people who may be inclined towards the ruling party of Germany during WWII without typing the name, but if it's actually in reference to Gen Z I'll feel rather silly...

My understanding of “Z” people is those who support Putin/his invasion of Ukraine as the “Z” symbol was found widely on the invading vehicles from Russia.

 

[fantsu]

My understanding of “Z” people is those who support Putin/his invasion of Ukraine as the “Z” symbol was found widely on the invading vehicles from Russia.

Yeah, its an Z for victory against the aggression towards Russia and its citizens.

 

[queenpea]

Glad my understanding of the term is approved by a real world Z-person!

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please stay on topic and not stray into current events. Thanks.

 

[Gorbles]

2020 is history! 2010 and 2000 even more! I wrote my master thesis on the Copts in Egypt 2000-2010 and how they were presented by media and Christian civil rights organizations in 2013. Perfectly within modern history.

I'm with Zaarin here. Of course "history" in terms of modern history exists, and it can be studied, analysed, and so on. But in terms of popular culture and how to portray it, you need some kind of consensus, which takes time when it comes to famous video game IP.

We've had endless threads in here about women leaders, there's a current ongoing tangent about Russian city names (not dismissing it or comparing it with the previous example). 2050 hasn't happened yet, and categorically cannot be history. Even trying to put something like the 2020 pandemic in game mechanic terms is going to invite skepticism from certain quarters (and the way the discourse goes; even basing it on something like the 1918 flu epidemic would raise similar criticisms these days - I don't think it's a coincidence we've seen that wonderful plague doctor featured r.e. earlier Ages).

I think that having the current game that we're all looking forward to stop at a previous point in time to make space for a hypothetical 4th Age seems very predictable. A lot of folks seem to agree. Any "future" Age would have to bear all of this commentary in mind and come up with something innovative while still not treading on any toes. I don't envy the devs in this regard.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The game has always had SOME level of science-fiction. Space Race is effectively that.

It suits the game though. a Scientific Victory of sorts should always reflect some obstinate blue-skies research that doesn't have a direct purpose or adaptation to the current needs of the world.

 

[TheGrayFox]

Oh, they included Mykolaiv in the city list. I don't like it.

Technically they included historically Russian Nikoleyev which was a city founded by Potemkin from territory captured from the Ottomans quite literally under Catherine the Great in the 18th century which was predominately Russian ethnically until the mid 20th century (right around when the game ends), it's not supposed to be the modern city of Mykolaiv