Is the world going to become capitalist?

[anarres]

I sometimes think that there is no hope of a communist or socialist country to survive in a world dominated by capitalist countries, and this upsets me. In fact, capitalist companaies is a better term, as it is indeed companies, not countries with the wealth.

Capitalism, by it's very nature sacrifices social awareness (i.e. lack of social programs) in the interests of profit. Companies aquire wealth, wealth aquires more wealth. Can you see the spiral?

Capitalist countries are run by capitalist individuals as they appease the capitalist companies. Individuals are bombarded by these companies in the media every day, and are told 'news' that is in line with the ideals of the capitalist companies. Individuals can be convinced of so many things, such as the McCarthy anti-commie crap that was around after the war. I know I am nowhere as well read as some people here, but I have a fairly good knowledge of what happend at that particular time in the history of the USA.

Wealth is power, and capitalists who want to increase their share of the wealth are not afraid to use their power to do so. The recent attacks on strategic resources in the middle east is a good example of this. So is the pupet dictatorship in Nigeria that the western world has happily let pass for so long. There are many more examples, you should all be able to list a few...

So, back to my point. What I want to know is if you think that a socialist/leftie/communist country can survive in this climate. I suspect not.

Maybe our only hope is an attack from aliens, at least them we would have to unite. I kid you not, aliens are our best hope, or we're f**ked.

 

[MrPresident]

Capitalism isn't an economic system but the absence of an economic system. Also not every capitalist country has the same form of capitalism. But as for your question, I completely agree socialism/communism has proven itself to be much better than capitalism. The great achievements of the old communist countries shall be remembered for decades to come. And the apparent success of capitalism is obviously due to an unfair advantage and if the playing field was level communism would win out every time. And the mere fact that capitalism is the single greatest success the world has ever seen doesn't mean that it is better than the others. Also the fact that communism (etc) always seem to degenerate into dictatorships or totalitarian regimes is purely concidental. Communism isn't a uptopian ideal clung to by idealist youngsters who have yet to experience the world and all its glory but a great idea that has yet to be implemented properly (by no fault of its own). Economic freedom is way overrated and economic equality is, of course, benefitically to all, especially the stupid (who I think we all agree deserve economic equality). No, communism has not failed, it has just not succeeded yet.

 

[anarres]

I assume that is sarcasm, but only because you're English.

 

[Hitro]

The answer is:
Most likely yes, and it will be destroyed in a not too distant future.

 

[Greadius]

Yes, you sound like you're really suffering under the burden of all that wealth and freedom.

Spoiled middle class kids...

 

[Portuguese]

Mr. P. I missed your sarcasm here

Comments:
- Capitalism IS an economic system.

- It is far superior to Communism (as "methodenstrein" proved it in 1920!!!) (not sure if that Austrich word is correctly spelled...)

-"the mere fact that capitalism is the single greatest success the world has ever seen doesn't mean that it is better than the others." > True, but don't use it to prove the opposite. It DOESN'T prove the opposite!

-"the fact that communism (etc) always seem to degenerate into dictatorships or totalitarian regimes is purely concidental." > I don't agree. Decisions have to be taken and the "people's decision" never works. NEVER. Humanity is not prepared for that.
As Adam Smith said, Egoism is the what makes the world runs. As people's will doesn't function, it WILL degenerate in totalitarism.

-"a great idea that has yet to be implemented properly (by no fault of its our)" > But will fail all the times until the humanity is very very changed...

-"Economic freedom is way overrated" > Or not...

- "No, communism has not failed, it has just not succeeded yet." > And it will take a long time to succeed, if that is meant to happen ever...

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by Greadius
Yes, you sound like you're really suffering under the burden of all that wealth and freedom.

Spoiled middle class kids...

In fact.

People only miss them when they don't have them.

And then it is a problem because the regime will kill you if you oppose it or even say something that they consider slightly provocative!!!

 

[MrPresident]

Mr. P. I missed your sarcasm here

How hard did you look for it?

Capitalism IS an economic system.

I beg to differ...please let me differ, oh why won't you let me differ. I will also beg for food, money and a multi-coloured elephant.

I assume that is sarcasm, but only because you're English.

Ahh...the curse of being English.

 

[anarres]

Originally posted by Greadius
Yes, you sound like you're really suffering under the burden of all that wealth and freedom.

Spoiled middle class kids...

I'd be careful about the assumptions you are making. Calling me a child only shows your immature nature.

I can't deny I'm middle class, but does that determine my philosopical outlook on life?

Also, FWIW my parents were both scum poor, and I have many similar beliefs to them. My core beliefs are probably nearer my grandfather, who was one of the 9 leaders of the CPUSA who were deported by McCarthy. Held without trial. Deported under laws rushed in, just for that purpose.

Maybe you should think about where your beliefs come from, you fat pink piggie.

 

[Portuguese]

Oops, I forget to comment Anarres...

Dear anarchist,
I'm an economist who likes capitalism and globalizations and I will not change my deep convictions lightly, as I have reasons to all my beliefs.
That said...
-"I sometimes think that there is no hope of a communist or socialist country to survive in a world dominated by capitalist countries, and this upsets me" > It would upset you more if you live in Democratic Germany, NK, Cuba, USSR,... Just read their results. You wouldn't have a computer and that WOULDN'T be the biggest of your concerns...

-"In fact, capitalist companaies is a better term, as it is indeed companies, not countries with the wealth." > Not exactly. Only wealthy countries have wealthy companies.
And people seem to forget that wealth don't fall from heavens: someone have worked to do it. Do you want to be wealthy: you'll have to work on it. Just like capitalist **** have done before...
Wealth is a question of opportunities and work on them!

-"Capitalism, by it's very nature sacrifices social awareness (i.e. lack of social programs) in the interests of profit. Companies aquire wealth, wealth aquires more wealth. Can you see the spiral?" > Yes. That's why the State (in Europe at least...) has social programs and services. But this isn't possible without taxes on the companies.
People seem to keep forgetting this...

-"Capitalist countries are run by capitalist individuals as they appease the capitalist companies. Individuals are bombarded by these companies in the media every day, and are told 'news' that is in line with the ideals of the capitalist companies. Individuals can be convinced of so many things, such as the McCarthy anti-commie crap that was around after the war. I know I am nowhere as well read as some people here, but I have a fairly good knowledge of what happend at that particular time in the history of the USA." > Media are a problem. I would finish them but they say that "that mesure" is a violation of some kind of freedom... Just ignore them.

-"Wealth is power, and capitalists who want to increase their share of the wealth are not afraid to use their power to do so. The recent attacks on strategic resources in the middle east is a good example of this. So is the pupet dictatorship in Nigeria that the western world has happily let pass for so long. There are many more examples, you should all be able to list a few..." > And the difference to commies is... THEY DO THE SAME. Stop protecting them...

-"So, back to my point. What I want to know is if you think that a socialist/leftie/communist country can survive in this climate. I suspect not." > I disagree of my Economis History here. I believe that in a far future Humanity will be prepared for Communism. He doesn't believe that. Sure thing: not in the next 200 years!!

-"Maybe our only hope is an attack from aliens, at least them we would have to unite. I kid you not, aliens are our best hope, or we're f**ked." > I never understand British humour. I'll assume this is another example.
But not the green guys again

So, did I help in something?

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by anarres
I'd be careful about the assumptions you are making. Calling me a child only shows your immature nature.

I can't deny I'm middle class, but does that determine my philosopical outlook on life?

Also, FWIW my parents were both scum poor, and I have many similar beliefs to them. My core beliefs are probably nearer my grandfather, who was one of the 9 leaders of the CPUSA who were deported by McCarthy. Held without trial. Deported under laws rushed in, just for that purpose.

Maybe you should think about where your beliefs come from, you fat pink piggie.

I quote it but I didn't meant you are a child. I thought child was in another sense...

But I have heard a line I would like to share with you:
"Only the rich ones can do the vote of poverty. Poor can't!"
It's from a Brazilian fellow but ilustrates what I think of Anti-capitalists...

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by MrPresident

How hard did you look for it?

I beg to differ...please let me differ, oh why won't you let me differ. I will also beg for food, money and a multi-coloured elephant.

Ahh...the curse of being English.

The curse of being Port is worse so don't complain

I don't know if I let you differ... Have you been a good poster?
Hmmmmm...
OK, but I can't arrange you the elephant at the moment.

I looked hard but all I found was Mr P Correct, and I thought: "This can't be him"

 

[philippe]

Im not spoiled and im certainly not middle class.
I am poor(for Belgium standards)
And im not certainly spoiled.
Ill talk about you about being spoiled after you worked your daywashing cars for 3 euro in holidays.
i get up at 08:00 and work to 19:00
but now its not needed anymore after my mom was declared handicapt becuase of the Huntington disease
In a Pure capatalist system my mom would starve.
That does make you feel better he?

 

[Portuguese]

@Philippe: that's why State exist: to solve capitalistic injustices!

I'm a strong defenfer of a capitalism with a wellfare system that corrects all of the capitalistic traditional anomalies.

Good luck to you and your family!

 

[philippe]

Thank the socialists i live in Belgium
Best sickness-wealthfare.
example:there is now a new thing that makes when you get sick and you have REALLY high bills from the hospital you only have to pay a certain price (it depends on your income)
The rest is paid by the state.
How is that handled in the U.S?

 

[anarres]

Well said phillippe.

Portugese, you make the point that capitalists have to work for money, so all is fair. Please explain to phillippe why his time is worth about 1000 times less than a stockbroker.

It's a fundamental point. Stockbrokers earn real hard $ by buying and selling things they never see, never contribute to. What is their input to the world as a whole? Nothing. Nada. They should get paid accordingly.

I can't remember where I saw it, but I have a seen a good chart of world production values for a variety of jobs. It listed by each job what value it had to the world. If people were paid accordingly, the currently poor coutries would be the richest as they actually provide the goods that the world uses.

btw Portugese, I totally respect your posts and the way you present them. I was not annoyed at you, just Greadius who wanted to have a troll today. Assuming things about people is a very common mistake, so it is often wise not to spout them in such a rude manner as Greadius did.

 

[De Lorimier]

It's would be hard for any form of real socialism to work by now. For political reasons, economical (all those trade organizations ) and people like this:

" Yes, you sound like you're really suffering under the burden of all that wealth and freedom.

Spoiled middle class kids... "

You shouldn't have an opinion Anarres. This is corporate America! How dare you? He told you, if you want wealth and freedom, just shut up and follow the parade.

 

[anarres]

Originally posted by Portuguese
I'm a strong defenfer of a capitalism with a wellfare system that corrects all of the capitalistic traditional anomalies.

I believe that the two are incongruous. The USA will soon have no walfare state at all.

The UK is moving very quickly down the capitalist road, and we are losing our welfare system at quite a quick pace too.

Capitalism is by it's very nature an encroaching system. Slowly at first, but surely with time, we will all bow to the almighty dollar (or euro )

My uncle once said to me:
'England is turning in to America. America is turning in to Las Vegas'

Edit: typo

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Calitalism rewards winners. Communism rewards losers. Guess which one will attract winners and which will attact losers. Guess which system will work: one more run by winners, or one more run by losers.

 

[CurtSibling]

Is the world going to become capitalist?

Indeed it is.

I think it is a fair assumption, for good or for ill.