Is this an Exploit?

[Memphus]

The end of the turn

 

[DaveMcW]

Everyone seems to think trading food for an equal number of shields is a bad thing to do. I think it is often a GOOD thing to do, especially if you have a bonus food tile that needs a settler/worker to claim/improve it.

In that case, the "exploit" is useless.

 

[Memphus]

Warrior is out, go for a second one
--note that anything can be build really I am just doing warriors because it is easy

 

[Memphus]

this is getting tiresome and repetitive sorry everyone

 

[Memphus]

the middle of the turn
settler 90/100 now

 

[Memphus]

At this point everyone will have varying opinions on what to do, chop again, jsut give in for the three turns, wait one turn for the growth...etc, but i think the micromanaging point has been made

 

[Memphus]

Final result
2840
1 additional warrior (not counting one poped from hut)
1 settler
1 warrior to be produced in one turn, with 26 hammers overflow
trees cut 4 (which = stonehenge as well)
city has lost a total of one turn of growth (after original worker)

 

[Memphus]

Fianlly please discuss this lots I like listening to the pros hash it out

Wow that took over an hour of posting sweet could have been playing

Personally I find rushign a second worker then using one for improvements to keep up with city growth (i.e. here he would do stone and sheep first)
--althoguh I realize on harder difficulties pumping techs every 4-5 turns is silly and not pissible to have all available worker actions
While keeping the first worker choping for units/ buildings

Note that this start is an option, you could very easily grow to 2 then do this, 3 then do this, that is your gameplay tactics..probably better than mine

Personally the more I look at it the more I think it is not right to do it, because It takes advantage...but at the same time would it really make a huge impact on your overall game? You tell me

 

[Memphus]

OK here is a more illustrative example

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144214

 

[eg577]

This is why I don't consider the trick to be an exploit. You are better off not growing and using those food and shields for the settler. Here is what I would have done if I played it:

Using both bonus resources and one chop I get my settler out earlier. I still have 21 shields on my barracks from when I was waiting to grow to size 2. I have more infanstructure than if I had spent all my time choping and I still have my trees to chop later.

Moderator Action: Fixed img tags

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ainwood said the shields do decay when you swich to another build.

Anyone knows at what rate they will decay?

 

[Willburn]

Loading the savegame here are my results:
(settler opening strategy - i prefer 2 x worker myself if lots of forrest)

1 settler
2 warriors
1 worker

Next turn i get another warrior.

Techs researched:
The wheel
Agriculture
Animal husbandry
Mysticism
Mining
Polytheism
Masonry
Bronze working

Note i also got a free worker from a hut since i had a moving warrior early - but i disbanded this ofcourse. This points out to the fact having early warriors can get you even better ahead...

Eg577 has a point on the other hand. I feel the trick is situational - its not a game breaker either.

Moderator Action: Fixed [IMG][/IMG] tags

 

[Willburn]

Here i go for worker then worker / growth then settler / growth.

Here are the results:

2 workers
2 warrors (1 more next turn)
1 settler

size 2 city.

Same techs as in previous example.
End date 2880bc as the other examples.
EDIT: This shows the power of worker + bronze then worker + growth trick and settler + growth trick for india..

 

[Ribannah]

It adds up though. More bugs will be discovered, and as a result in pretty much every game there will be bugs to exploit.

 

[Ribannah]

Thanks Memphus, this is definite proof of this bug.
No way that this exploit can be allowed, it is a variant of the Civ3 reassignment of worked tiles during end-of-turn messages.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I think this would only count as an 'exploit/bug' IF forests could be regrown. Yes you may get a settler whilst getting growth but-consider this-is that necessarily a GOOD thing? Firstly, growth in city size contributes towards unhappiness and unhealthiness, which is why I am sometimes GLAD to halt growth for a while as I build my settler/worker. This is especially true if you found yourself without luxuries, different food sources and/or poor terrain (jungles nearby).
Secondly, given that you can no longer swap hammers to a new wonder if you miss out on an earlier one, I think you are better off saving your forests not for settler building, but for wonder production-or to save it against a future day when you will need to sustain a later game population. As has been stated, this really makes the forest-chop issue more of a situational thing, at least IMO.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Willburn]

Aussi i totaly agree on it beeing situational. When i play i allways look at my traits and the map im in. Do i see a lot of forrests ? Do i have industrial trait..hmm let me think i can worker chop/growth that fast settler and get a city by that marble..Hmm if i then worker chop forrest near second city i can get 60 hammers per chop.. etc etc

If im aggressive in multiplayer games i usually save forrest for chopping a barracks ( one chop) or if im expansive i usually worker chop a granery.

The basic principle is to get as much hammers as fast as possible for a best possible start. How you do this is very situational.

 

[Juhahu]

Btw, you can chop trees outside cultural borders too. You just get less hammers farther away you chop.

 

[Memphus]

originally posted by WackenOpenAir
Ainwood said the shields do decay when you swich to another build.

Anyone knows at what rate they will decay?

I have no idea and maybe the rate is higher on higher difficulties, but on settler to noble, I have been able to go move,chop (4 turns not using india) * 4 = 16 turns for the settler with no decay in the shields.

I am wondering if it doesn't decay and only research does? or maybe after turn X the decay starts where on Noble turn X is 30, prince it is turn 25, etc... I am just speculating here..ahh man no another night of testing

 

[Samson]

I am wondering if it doesn't decay and only research does? or maybe after turn X the decay starts where on Noble turn X is 30, prince it is turn 25, etc... I am just speculating here..ahh man no another night of testing

It definatly does decay. To give you some sort of idea, I lost about 15 sheilds in the time it took me to build 2 monastrys and a library, the city had 5 - 10 sheilds.