Israel, a Jewish state ?

otago

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How much longer will Israel remain a Jewish state ?
(The expulsion of Israeli Arabs has long been promoted by the Israeli far right. Arabs who are Israeli citizens now number more than 1 million and constitute about 15 percent of the population. Within the next 20 years, it is expected that the Arab population, with its higher birth rate, could outnumber the Jewish population and thus challenge the explicitly Jewish character of the state itself)
What options do the Jewish people of Israel have if they want to remain a majority in Israel ?

Could Israel end up a majority Arab state, or will the majority at this time take drastic action such as pushing all Israeli Arabs into Jordan ?
Either way it will be interesting times in Israel.
http://www.countercurrents.org/marsden291208.htm
 
Until Judgement Day.

Israel simply will not allow the Arabs to become dominant, no matter what they have to do. Whether that's a viable two-state solution, a new system of government, or outright genocide, if that's what it takes, they'll do it.
 
Until Judgement Day.

Israel simply will not allow the Arabs to become dominant, no matter what they have to do. Whether that's a viable two-state solution, a new system of government, or outright genocide, if that's what it takes, they'll do it.

He's right. But I don't think we'll have to ever resort to genocide; they're not TOO many, and anyways, we Jews don't reproduce as slowly as other Westernized people. :D
 
He's right. But I don't think we'll have to ever resort to genocide; they're not TOO many, and anyways, we Jews don't reproduce as slowly as other Westernized people. :D
Not too many yet. Give them time.

Personally, I like my reproduction to alternate between slow and gentle, then fast and hard, depending on my mood.
 
He's right. But I don't think we'll have to ever resort to genocide; they're not TOO many, and anyways, we Jews don't reproduce as slowly as other Westernized people. :D

Are you suggesting that you would commit genocide against non-Jews if they were to become the majority in Israel?
 
Are you suggesting that you would commit genocide against non-Jews if they were to become the majority in Israel?

how deliciously ironic would that be?

also, nb4 australians claim this thread is anti-semitic.
 
Why Israel feels threatened
By Benny Morris
Tuesday, December 30, 2008

LI-ON, Israel: Many Israelis feel that the walls - and history - are closing in on their 60-year-old state, much as they felt in early June 1967, just before Israel launched the Six-Day War and destroyed the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies in Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

More than 40 years ago, the Egyptians had driven a UN peacekeeping force from the Sinai-Israel border, had closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and air traffic and had deployed the equivalent of seven armored and infantry divisions on Israel's doorstep. Egypt had signed a series of military pacts with Syria and Jordan and placed troops in the West Bank. Arab radio stations blared messages about the coming destruction of Israel.

Israelis, or rather, Israeli Jews, are beginning to feel much the way their parents did in those apocalyptic days. Israel is a much more powerful and prosperous state today. In 1967 there were only some 2 million Jews in the country - today there are about 5.5 million - and the military did not have nuclear weapons. But the bulk of the population looks to the future with deep foreboding.

The foreboding has two general sources and four specific causes.

The general problems are simple. First, the Arab and wider Islamic worlds, despite Israeli hopes since 1948 and notwithstanding the peace treaties signed by Egypt and Jordan in 1979 and 1994, have never truly accepted the legitimacy of Israel's creation and continue to oppose its existence.

Second, public opinion in the West (and in democracies, governments can't be far behind) is gradually reducing its support for Israel as the West looks askance at the Jewish state's treatment of its Palestinian neighbors and wards. The Holocaust is increasingly becoming a faint and ineffectual memory and the Arab states are increasingly powerful and assertive.

More specifically, Israel faces a combination of dire threats. To the east, Iran is frantically advancing its nuclear project, which most Israelis and most of the world's intelligence agencies believe is designed to produce nuclear weapons. This, coupled with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's public threats to destroy Israel - and his denials of the Holocaust and of any homosexuality in Iran, which underscore his irrationality - has Israel's political and military leaders on tenterhooks.

To the north, the Lebanese fundamentalist organization Hezbollah, which also vows to destroy Israel and functions as an Iranian proxy, has thoroughly rearmed since its war with Israel in 2006. According to Israeli intelligence estimates, Hezbollah now has an arsenal of 30,000 to 40,000 Russian-made rockets, supplied by Syria and Iran - twice the number it possessed in 2006. Some of the rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Dimona, where Israel's nuclear production facility is located. If there is war between Israel and Iran, Hezbollah can be expected to join in. (It may well join in the renewed Israeli-Palestinian conflict, too.)

To the south, Israel faces the Islamist Hamas movement, which controls the Gaza Strip and whose charter promises to destroy Israel and bring every inch of Palestine under Islamic rule and law. Hamas today has an army of thousands. It also has a large arsenal of rockets - home-made Qassams and Russian-made, Iranian-financed Katyushas and Grads smuggled, with the Egyptians largely turning a blind eye, through tunnels from Sinai.

Last June, Israel and Hamas agreed to a six-month truce. This unsteady calm was periodically violated by armed factions in Gaza that lobbed rockets into Israel's border settlements. Israel responded by periodically suspending shipments of supplies into Gaza.

In November and early December, Hamas stepped up the rocket attacks and then, unilaterally, formally announced the end of the truce. The Israeli public and government then gave Defense Minister Ehud Barak a free hand. Israel's highly efficient air assault on Hamas, which began on Saturday, was his first move. Most of Hamas' security and governmental compounds were turned into rubble and several hundred Hamas fighters were killed.

But the attack will not solve the basic problem posed by a Gaza Strip populated by 1.5 million impoverished, desperate Palestinians who are ruled by a fanatic regime and are tightly hemmed in by fences and by border crossings controlled by Israel and Egypt.

An enormous Israeli ground operation aimed at conquering the Gaza Strip and destroying Hamas would probably bog down in the alleyways of refugee camps before achieving its goal. (And even if these goals were somehow achieved, renewed and indefinite Israeli rule over Gaza would prove unpalatable to all concerned.)

More likely are small, limited armored incursions, intended to curtail missile launches and kill Hamas fighters. But these are also unlikely to bring the organization to heel - though they may exercise sufficient pressure eventually to achieve, with the mediation of Turkey or Egypt, a renewed temporary truce. That seems to be the most that can be hoped for, though a renewal of rocket attacks on southern Israel, once Hamas recovers, is as certain as day follows night.

The fourth immediate threat to Israel's existence is internal. It is posed by the country's Arab minority. Over the past two decades, Israel's 1.3 million Arab citizens have been radicalized, with many openly avowing a Palestinian identity and embracing Palestinian national aims. Their spokesmen say that their loyalty lies with their people rather than with their state, Israel. Many of the community's leaders, who benefit from Israeli democracy, more or less publicly supported Hezbollah in 2006 and continue to call for "autonomy" (of one sort or another) and for the dissolution of the Jewish state.

Demography, if not Arab victory in battle, offers the recipe for such a dissolution. The birth rates for Israeli Arabs are among the highest in the world, with 4 or 5 children per family (as opposed to the 2 or 3 children per family among Israeli Jews).

If present trends persist, Arabs could constitute the majority of Israel's citizens by 2040 or 2050. Already, within five to 10 years, Palestinians (Israeli Arabs coupled with those who live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip) will form the majority population of Palestine (the land lying between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean).

Friction between Israeli Arabs and Jews is already a cogent political factor. In 2000, at the start of the second intifada, thousands of Arab youngsters rioted along Israel's major highways and in Israel's ethnically mixed cities.

The past fortnight has seen a recurrence, albeit on a smaller scale, of such rioting. Down the road, Israel's Jews fear more violence and terrorism by Israeli Arabs. Most Jews see the Arab minority as a potential fifth column.

What is common to these specific threats is their unconventionality. Between 1948 and 1982 Israel coped relatively well with the threat from conventional Arab armies. Indeed, it repeatedly trounced them. But Iran's nuclear threat, the rise of organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah that operate from across international borders and from the midst of dense civilian populations, and Israeli Arabs' growing disaffection with the state and their identification with its enemies, offer a completely different set of challenges. And they are challenges that Israel's leaders and public, bound by Western democratic and liberal norms of behavior, appear to find particularly difficult to counter.

Israel's sense of the walls closing in on it has this past week led to one violent reaction. Given the new realities, it would not be surprising if more powerful explosions were to follow.

Benny Morris, a professor of Middle Eastern history at Ben-Gurion University, is the author, most recently, of "1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War."

Israel clearly needs to tackle this issue.
 
Is secularism a possible answer to this problem though? I really don't know much about the situation in Israel, but perhaps if it stopped being simply The Jewish State, the Palestinians and neighboring Arab countries might have an easier time acknowledging that it's earned it's right to be there.

But I really don't know, and I could be way off base on this one.
 
How much longer will Israel remain a Jewish state ?
(The expulsion of Israeli Arabs has long been promoted by the Israeli far right. Arabs who are Israeli citizens now number more than 1 million and constitute about 15 percent of the population. Within the next 20 years, it is expected that the Arab population, with its higher birth rate, could outnumber the Jewish population and thus challenge the explicitly Jewish character of the state itself)
What options do the Jewish people of Israel have if they want to remain a majority in Israel ?

Let's do it this way:

1) Make a law allowing the revocation of citizenship of every person of Arab descent which takes part in treasonous activities
2) Expell such persons to special settlements in the West Bank
3) Apply on massive scale if necessary.

Israelis should carefuly examine what happened in Kosovo. Albanians have set up an example of a successful demographic invasion of another country.

Could Israel end up a majority Arab state, or will the majority at this time take drastic action such as pushing all Israeli Arabs into Jordan ?
Either way it will be interesting times in Israel.

Some Israeli Arabs are loyal to Israel, they should be allowed to stay. The traitors are no better than the Palestinians, so get rid of them as I explained above.
 
Is secularism a possible answer to this problem though? I really don't know much about the situation in Israel, but perhaps if it stopped being simply The Jewish State, the Palestinians and neighboring Arab countries might have an easier time acknowledging that it's earned it's right to be there.

But I really don't know, and I could be way off base on this one.

Do you think that the Americans would accept if the U.S. stopped being a Christian state just to appease a radicalized minority? No. Why should the Israelis support people who want the destroy their country and eventually destroy them as well?
 
Do you think that the Americans would accept if the U.S. stopped being a Christian state just to appease a radicalized minority? No. Why should the Israelis support people who want the destroy their country and eventually destroy them as well?

were not a christian state, as much as it may seem.
 
Well Arabic population in Israel is divided. So there might be some "collaboration award" on pro-Israel Arabs. That way, coupled with strong military of Israeli army, would tear down Arabic sabotage of State of Israel.

Edit: US absorbs more and more immigration from Latin America, thus Hispanic (mostly Catholics) are replacing Europeans (mixed with Catholic and Protestants). That's a complete different story.
 
Is secularism a possible answer to this problem though? I really don't know much about the situation in Israel, but perhaps if it stopped being simply The Jewish State, the Palestinians and neighboring Arab countries might have an easier time acknowledging that it's earned it's right to be there.

But I really don't know, and I could be way off base on this one.

Israel IS secular, separating Jewish religion from Jewish state.

The country has a code of accepting immigrants more from Jewish ethnicity--people who are mostly considered themselves and be considered by others, as ethnic Jews, not religious Jews, not Orthodox Jews.

Two Arab countries already recognize the state of Israel, and more might follow if:
  1. Two state solution reached, boundary between Palenstine and Israel confined;
  2. Golan Heights dispute is solved, boundary between Syria and Israel forged;
  3. Hezbollah will stay in the Lebanonese territory only, the boundary between Lebanon and Israel forged.
 
were not a christian state, as much as it may seem.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all."

Not at all :lol: U.S. is about as Christian as Israel is Jewish. Don't forget that Israel is very similar to the U.S. - it's also a settler/immigrant country. Unlike the Americans, they have a clear notion of their identity, based on ethno-religious distinctions.

Israelis should tolerate other people in the State of Israel, but only if they don't seek its destruction. If that's what Israeli Arabs are doing, it's a treason in a state of war.
 
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all."

Not at all :lol: U.S. is about as Christian as Israel is Jewish. Don't forget that Israel is very similar to the U.S. - it's also a settler/immigrant country. Unlike the Americans, they have a clear notion of their identity, based on ethno-religious distinctions.

Israelis should tolerate other people in the State of Israel, but only if they don't seek its destruction. If that's what Israeli Arabs are doing, it's a treason in a state of war.

Yes, some petty little sentence entered into the pledge of allegiance in the 1950s means that if Christians became the minority in this country, it would justify genocide against non-Christians.

"Ethno-religious distinctions," as you call them, are racist, and it is just that for Israel to be an exclusively "Jewish" state, marginalizing non-Jews in both Israel proper and the autonomous Palestinian territories.
 
Yes, some petty little sentence entered into the pledge of allegiance in the 1950s means that if Christians became the minority in this country, it would justify genocide against non-Christians.

"Ethno-religious distinctions," as you call them, are racist, and it is just that for Israel to be an exclusively "Jewish" state, marginalizing non-Jews in both Israel proper and the autonomous Palestinian territories.

I advise all PC persons on this forum to go and actually learn what the word genocide means.
 
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all."

Not at all :lol: U.S. is about as Christian as Israel is Jewish. Don't forget that Israel is very similar to the U.S. - it's also a settler/immigrant country. Unlike the Americans, they have a clear notion of their identity, based on ethno-religious distinctions.

Israelis should tolerate other people in the State of Israel, but only if they don't seek its destruction. If that's what Israeli Arabs are doing, it's a treason in a state of war.

yes. we're a christian nation, just like israel is jewish, because we changed the wording to piss you off when you were still commie.
 
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