Israel blocks supplies to 'hostile' Gaza...

[skadistic]

Not if you look at who is affected by it, and the reasoning behind it. Note that I am focussing on your argumentation "it's their own fault". It can be applied to both situations.

Are you honestly equating shooting rockets at people with cutting electricity?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Are you honestly reading that in my post when I explicitely mentioned why I am making the comparisson? I think I was pretty clear, and I think it's bleeding obvious that I am not equating the two.

 

[skadistic]

Not if you look at who is affected by it, and the reasoning behind it. Note that I am focussing on your argumentation "it's their own fault". It can be applied to both situations.

Massive difference between targeting civilians and an embargo.

So when Nivi says there is a massive difference between targeting civilians and an embargo and you say there isn't thats not equating the two? If they aren't different then they are the same? What am i missing?

 

[Leonel]

Just bloody ethnically cleanse them and get over it. It's not like Israel can possibly be condemned any more.

I know! Israel is already seen as a zionistic Nazi genocidal dictatorship regime that kills Palestinian children for sport! Not like they'd be doing anything out of the ordinary if they actually lived up to the reputation they got.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So when Nivi says there is a massive difference between targeting civilians and an embargo and you say there isn't thats not equating the two? If they aren't different then they are the same? What am i missing?

I specified an area, namely who is targeted. In both cases the civilians are targetted. Or in other words:

"Not if you look at who is affected by it"

I can't see how you can missinterpret that sentence. Two things which have simularities in one aspect, but not in others are not the same. This is why I stated what particular element I am comparing.

When I stated I think it's unfair to penalise 1.4 million people, Nivi's response was that they have themselves to blame. It is that statement, and that statement alone I disagree with.

If you think I am going to get drawn into a who's right/who's wrong debate, think again. I'm not playing. Because then we enter the realm of measuring and comparing people's suffering, and that's one thing I have always had a hard time quantifying.

Clear?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

"Collective punishment is the punishment of a group of people as a result of the behaviour of one or more other individuals or groups. The punished group may often have no direct association with the other individuals or groups, or direct control over their actions. In times of war and armed conflict, collective punishment has resulted in atrocities, and is a violation of the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions. Historically, occupying powers have used collective punishment to retaliate against and deter attacks on their forces by resistance movements (eg. by burning villages where attacks have taken place)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

edit &

"Structural violence, a term which was first used in the 1970s and which has commonly been ascribed to Johan Galtung, denotes a form of violence which corresponds with the systematic ways in which a given social structure or social institution kills people slowly by preventing them from meeting their basic needs. Institutionalized elitism, ethnocentricism, classism, racism, sexism, adultism, nationalism, heterosexism and ageism are just some examples of structural violence. Life spans are reduced when people are socially dominated, politically oppressed, or economically exploited. Structural violence and direct violence are highly interdependent. Structural violence inevitably produces conflict and often direct violence including family violence, racial violence, hate crimes, terrorism, genocide, and war."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_violence

We will now have a long, unproductive argument wherein one side will shout that it is ludicrous to be forced to supply your enemies, and the other side will demand to know how starvation of civilians is not collective punishment.

This thread is pretty much doomed.

 

[skadistic]

Clear?

Yeah.
I never said I was brilliant!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sorry I went a little overboard there

 

[Rambuchan]

Israel needs to take the Gaza Strip and remove everyone from the land which is in range of any Israeli civilian population or military installation. Then set up patrols to ensure that it stays that way. This should be done for the West Bank and Lebanon, as well. Israel also needs to start going after the countries arming these terrorists.

Hamas and Hizbulla need to take Israel and remove all the Jews full stop. Then set up patrols to ensure that it stays that way. Hamas and Hizbullah and their supporters should also go after the countries arming these Israeli occupiers and terrorists.

See how your solution is both unrealistic and a recipe for more conflict?

It takes appeasement of both sides, brokered by a party that doesn't have vested strategic interests, to arrive at a two state solution. Rooting for and arming just the one side is no way to solve this, neither is eradication and the continued use of force.

A good idea, but most parts of the Gaza strip are only 8-10 km wide, which is exactly the range of Qassam 2/3 rockets. Removing palestinians from the ares you describe would probably mean just taking htem out of Gaza completely...

Then so be it.

It's a terrible idea.

 

[angrybellsprout]

Maybe the Europeans could go back to Europe, and allow all arabs, Jewish Christian and Muslim to live in peace once again?

 

[George2816]

Maybe the Europeans could go back to Europe, and allow all arabs, Jewish Christian and Muslim to live in peace once again?

Maybe israel should move to german after all the it was germany that killed the jews not the middle-east right?

 

[angrybellsprout]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/Uganda.html

 

[HannibalBarka]

They could, but as of now, Israel is in fact sending vital supplies to its sworn enemies. Do you think it is right? If I was an Israeli, I'd be mad if my government aided people who want me dead.

Well thankfully Israeli are more civilized than some eastern european anti-gypsies fellas

 

[Bill3000]

I know! Israel is already seen as a zionistic Nazi genocidal dictatorship regime that kills Palestinian children for sport! Not like they'd be doing anything out of the ordinary if they actually lived up to the reputation they got.

Exactly.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Israel needs to take the Gaza Strip and remove everyone from the land which is in range of any Israeli civilian population or military installation. Then set up patrols to ensure that it stays that way. This should be done for the West Bank and Lebanon, as well. Israel also needs to start going after the countries arming these terrorists.

I know, been there done that, and it did not work. another idea?

 

[HannibalBarka]

Just bloody ethnically cleanse them and get over it. It's not like Israel can possibly be condemned any more.

It bloody just does not work that way none can ethnically cleanse the other one, they better find a way to live side by side

 

[Bill3000]

It bloody just does not work that way none can ethnically cleanse the other one, they better find a way to live side by side

Of course they can cleanse the Palestinians. It's rather easy to force people out of one's country if you're determined enough.

 

[failedreality]

Maybe the Europeans could go back to Europe, and allow all arabs, Jewish Christian and Muslim to live in peace once again?

So are you saying that its the Europeans fault for no Peace.?

 

[ValentinianIII]

Ethnic cleansing, eh? What kind of cleanser would you use? I hear the Neutrogena purifying cleanser is good for removing oil and dirt of the face.

 

[ArneHD]

So are you saying that its the Europeans fault for no Peace.?

Of course it is! If the Germans hadn't begun a systematic killing of ethnic Jews, none of this would have happened in the first place!