Issues with defining Antisemitism and the 'problem' on The Left

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Cool, so according to you, white people are better informed to tell black people what is and isn't racism against them.
No: a non-paranoid, objective opinion is simply better at making distinctions than someone whipped into hysteria by their leaders for political ends.

Edit: it is ironic that the people who make the most noise about how unfair it is to compare their actions to those of the Nazis are so incredibly quick to throw the same allegations at their opponents. What happened to the importance of context?
 
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Context? CONTEXT? Context is a form of Commie-Nazi Propaganda!
 

Any reason or is it just because they have a reputation for being more liberal?
They are likely to know that that in the event of neo-Nazis coming to power being assimilated won't help them so they've as much reason to dislike genuine anti-Semitism as any other Jew.
 
Any reason or is it just because they have a reputation for being more liberal?

They feel less connected to Jewish identity.

They are likely to know that that in the event of neo-Nazis coming to power being assimilated won't help them so they've as much reason to dislike genuine anti-Semitism as any other Jew.

Racial antisemitism is not the only kind there is. The fact that every single defender of Corbyn I've ever met believes this - which is to say, left-wingers can't be antisemitic - says a great deal more about what he stands for than anything he's said himself.
 
The fact that every single defender of Corbyn I've ever met believes this - which is to say, left-wingers can't be antisemitic - says a great deal more about what he stands for than anything he's said himself.
File under 'totally unsubstantiated beliefs'. I mean I think it's possible for left-wingers to be antisemitic, just less likely than a right-winger - which the stats back up.
 
They feel less connected to Jewish identity.

You feel that they are less connected to their Jewish identity, you can't speak for how they feel.


Racial antisemitism is not the only kind there is. The fact that every single defender of Corbyn I've ever met believes this - which is to say, left-wingers can't be antisemitic - says a great deal more about what he stands for than anything he's said himself.

I don't believe that left-wingers are incapable of anti-Semitism. I'd be interested in hearing more about how you identify these other types of anti-Semitism.
 
No, Tim only realizes that if Jews demand autonomy for themselves, it's because they really want to enforce Halakha! And their maintaining an army for themselves - that's a clear indicator they've sunk to Hitler's depth.

Actually the more concerning indicator is the callous and casual slaughtering of inconvenient humans. But once again, that's a problem with the state of Israel, not Jews in general or their faith.
 
Mr Donald Trump received 30 percent of the Latino vote and nearly 10% of the black vote. And you're not even bringing up the question of what sorts of Jews usually defend Labor (I suspect they're the most highly assimilated fifth of the Jewish population, just as I suspect the black Trump voters tend to have more income and social mobility than others).
I'm not sure I understand the analogy, but the primary determinant in Labour voting has historically been socioeconomic class. More recently, age is a strong determinant. I don't think that assimilation is going to be an issue, unless it's being used to mean secularisation or out-group marriage, in which case we're talking less about assimilation than generation and religiousness.

The shift of Jewish voters from Labour to the Conservatives is broadly consistent with a comparable shift among older white Britons generally, especially in London and surrounding counties, where the greater majority of British Jews reside. There are plenty of Essex Tories whose grandparents were East End socialists; it would be strange if British Jews were somehow exempt from this process.
 
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Why are there even British Jews? Shouldn't they assimiconflate to Israel?

Obviously those are jew-hating jews! How dare they not be also isrelis?

There are no "issues" with defining "antisemitism" in "the left". There is a political fight within the UK's Labour Party between the bairite faction that used to control it, and the vast majority of the members of the party who have chosen a different leadership from outside that clique. This is entire an issue within the UK's Labour Party.

And the reason a media campaign is being waged over it now is that party members have put forth several motions to allow for the deselection of MPs. Meaning: those blairites will no longer have their positions guaranteed, they are going to have to campaign against others and sin support from the members if they want to be the party candidates. Most know know they lack the support to be nominated, they have a history of not caring for their own (supposed) constituencies. So they are trying to take over the bureaucracy, the leadership of the party and prevent this. They need to carry out a coup within the party now and take power, or they're out of the game.
These blairites who fear losing their political influence and therefore their many plush jobs: not just their jobs as MPs, they also get hired by corporations out to buy political influence in order to suck money from the state with these "public-private partnerships"

They have nothing else to attack Corbyn with:
- they said he was "unelectable", he got a better result that the blairire clique had managed.
- they sair he was a dangerous socialist out to nationalize stuff, it turns out that UK voters are sick of seeing public services be placed under private management and bankrupted, costing the people who sue them and the state - they welcome "nationalizing" back these public services.

Thus they seized on the fact that Corbyn always, consistently, denounced discrimination and racism, which includes denouncing the systematic policies of the israeli state, to brand him an "anti-semite" and try to create some kind of "political scandal". They'll fail because Corbyn is not some coward or inexperienced youngling, he's always stuck to his principles when they were not popular and is used to attacks through the media. As for the UK's public, some conservative-leaning ones may be cynically hoping Corbin will give up, but even they know the campaign is a desperate lie. And the labour supporters have seen through it a long time ago.

Expect the whiners to leave the Labour Party rather than submit themselves to any kind of "primaries". Perhaps they'll then go begging to their corporate masters for some financing. But those know better than to waste money financing proven losers. Nor will the israelis offer them any help, some are probably fuming at how this whole thing is drawing unwanted attention to Israel's policies.
 
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They are getting frantic, since deselections are looming and the results of the NEC elections are expected to wipe out their executive support in the next couple of weeks.
 
Obviously those are jew-hating jews! How dare they not be also isrelis?

There are no "issues" with defining "antisemitism" in "the left". There is a political fight within the UK's Labour Party between the bairite faction that used to control it, and the vast majority of the members of the party who have chosen a different leadership from outside that clique. This is entire an issue within the UK's Labour Party.

And the reason a media campaign is being waged over it now is that party members have put forth several motions to allow for the deselection of MPs. Meaning: those blairites will no longer have their positions guaranteed, they are going to have to campaign against others and sin support from the members if they want to be the party candidates. Most know know they lack the support to be nominated, they have a history of not caring for their own (supposed) constituencies. So they are trying to take over the bureaucracy, the leadership of the party and prevent this. They need to carry out a coup within the party now and take power, or they're out of the game.
These blairites who fear losing their political influence and therefore their many plush jobs: not just their jobs as MPs, they also get hired by corporations out to buy political influence in order to suck money from the state with these "public-private partnerships"

They have nothing else to attack Corbyn with:
- they said he was "unelectable", he got a better result that the blairire clique had managed.
- they sair he was a dangerous socialist out to nationalize stuff, it turns out that UK voters are sick of seeing public services be placed under private management and bankrupted, costing the people who sue them and the state - they welcome "nationalizing" back these public services.

Thus they seized on the fact that Corbyn always, consistently, denounced discrimination and racism, which includes denouncing the systematic policies of the israeli state, to brand him an "anti-semite" and try to create some kind of "political scandal". They'll fail because Corbyn is not some coward or inexperienced youngling, he's always stuck to his principles when they were not popular and is used to attacks through the media. As for the UK's public, some conservative-leaning ones may be cynically hoping Corbin will give up, but even they know the campaign is a desperate lie. And the labour supporters have seen through it a long time ago.

Expect the whiners to leave the Labour Party rather than submit themselves to any kind of "primaries". Perhaps they'll then go begging to their corporate masters for some financing. But those know better than to waste money financing proven losers. Nor will the israelis offer them any help, some are probably fuming at how this whole thing is drawing unwanted attention to Israel's policies.
This analysis pretty much matches what I'm seeing from over here. There is also apparently canvassing amongst Blairites for forming a new "Centrist" party. This is in spite of the Centrist Lib Dems being wiped out at the last two elections because people don't like the Centre anymore. Either the Blairites are delusional - possible - or it is a spiteful threat to split the party unless they get their way, shearing off votes that would g to Labour and making the Tories harder to defeat.

We experienced this in Australia in the 1950s, when Bob Santamaria attempted to takeover the Labor Party, failed, and split the party rather than accept defeat. This gave us an extra 18 years of the Tories in Govt here, in spite of them not being particularly popular. So the Blairites need to be mercilessly crushed now. I think Corbyn is more capable of that than Doc Evatt was over here in the 1950s.
 
File under 'totally unsubstantiated beliefs'. I mean I think it's possible for left-wingers to be antisemitic, just less likely than a right-winger - which the stats back up.

You have made it clear that you believe antisemitism is a form of racism. Since racism is a right-wing phenomenon, you are asserting that left-wingers cannot be antisemites. I don't see how it could be any clearer.

Obviously those are jew-hating jews! How dare they not be also isrelis? call George Soros a globalist?

Fixed that for you.
 
You have made it clear that you believe antisemitism is a form of racism. Since racism is a right-wing phenomenon, you are asserting that left-wingers cannot be antisemites. I don't see how it could be any clearer.



Fixed that for you.
Are you seriously claiming that racism is a right-wing phenomenon, or merely trolling in a very weird way? And anti-Semitism is racism. Religious discrimination is a form of racism,
 
You have made it clear that you believe antisemitism is a form of racism. Since racism is a right-wing phenomenon, you are asserting that left-wingers cannot be antisemites. I don't see how it could be any clearer.

I'd have said that when he said "I think its possible for left-wingers to be anti-semitic" he was pretty clear.
Anyone whos spent time on the left knows racism and other forms of prejudice exist on the left (eg Monklands Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monklandsgate). Theres a difference between some people on the left being bigots and having bigotry as the basis for your policies as is common on the right (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/world/middleeast/israel-law-jews-arabic.html).
 
Are you seriously claiming that racism is a right-wing phenomenon, or merely trolling in a very weird way?

Well, consciously a right-wing phenomenon.

And anti-Semitism is racism. Religious discrimination is a form of racism,

That's highly questionable (if you place every sort of 'discrimination' under a single label, that label is going to end up meaningless). What do you do if the antisemitism declares itself to be anti-racist?

I'd have said that when he said "I think its possible for left-wingers to be anti-semitic" he was pretty clear.
Anyone whos spent time on the left knows racism and other forms of prejudice exist on the left (eg Monklands Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monklandsgate).

You clearly aren't going to conduct a rational conversation here, so this will be my final response to you.
 
I mean, for a Jew, when some politician calls Hamas "my friends" it must feel like for a Black American if some politician called the KKK "my friends".

It's more like trying to portray Muhammad Ali as a racist because he said he had no problem with the Viet Cong and they killed some African American soldiers.
 
It's more like trying to portray Muhammad Ali as a racist because he said he had no problem with the Viet Cong and they killed some African American soldiers.

This is literal advocacy of terrorism (equating Israeli civilians with soldiers is the fundamental premise behind attacks on them).

Moderator Action: If you genuinely believe this, then you should be reporting it, not merely talking about it. - Arakhor
 
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