It's About to Get Hot at the Border

[Farm Boy]

I think we ought to encourage citizen births any way possible

This could be an interesting discussion.

 

[Sommerswerd]

That's where the potential for conflict is though. These militias might try to stop them from turning themselves over in the first place. Might even be a few that would be crazy enough to actually attack any Border Patrol facilities attempting to process the migrants.

I think that its likely that the US Border Patrol and the militias will both be at or around the points of entry, but the border patrol (and Army) will set up some kind of perimeter in advance, whereby the militias will be relegated to more of a "protester" status, without much contact with the migrants besides jeers, boos dirty looks etc.

I don't discount what you are saying that maybe some of the militia members will want to stop them from even reaching the border to be processed/taken into custody, but again, that will require launching an incursion into Mexico. I doubt any but the most fanatical would even attempt such a thing. So you end up with a commando squad of like 5 or 6 guys sneaking into Mexico to intercept the caravan. I think such a venture is doomed to fail spectacularly as the caravan is too visible. The interceptors will be caught and arrested, possibly without even exchanging any fire, particularly if they are vastly out manned/outgunned by Mexican forces.

 

[Sommerswerd]

But as it stands now, other immigration processes take months or longer, and I would like to believe it's because they are doing a more thorough background check than running the name through a terrorist watch list and then letting the application sit on their desk for a year.

You might not want to believe that, but I suspect that is exactly what is going on. There is also huge backlog because the process is unnecessarily complicated.

Why does the process need to take months? Why is a health examination and an interview insufficient? Why are multiple applications with pages and pages of "paperwork" even necessary? They're not showing up for their hearing? Why not have the "hearing" right then and there? All the time and resources that get wasted, just to have a "hearing" later... sending out notices, scheduling Court time etc... its absurd. You could have the facilities to have the hearing set up right there, maybe even have lawyers, public defenders, or legal aid, or pro bono, or even regular paid immigration lawyers for those who can afford it... right there at the facility, ready to help.

 

[metalhead]

This could be an interesting discussion.

There is lots of talk about the dangers of climate change, but not so much talk about how the developed world is going to deal with a demographic crisis largely brought on by the fact of being developed.

Both require equally radical rethinkings of what society is, how it functions, and what its purpose ought to be. Maybe we all decide to mass sterilize the entire human race and spend its last century or so in existence having one massive party.

 

[rah]

Because they're trying to keep them out, not faciliate them

 

[Farm Boy]

There is lots of talk about the dangers of climate change, but not so much talk about how the developed world is going to deal with a demographic crisis largely brought on by the fact of being developed.

Both require equally radical rethinkings of what society is, how it functions, and what its purpose ought to be. Maybe we all decide to mass sterilize the entire human race and spend its last century or so in existence having one massive party.

Well, we appear to be dealing with it by drawing the fertile here and then making them not really want to have kids so much.

There are appeals to sterilization, but I think Children of Men is probably a closer approximation than party. Children are a product of and provider of hope. They don't necessarily have to be yours, but I think they fundamentally do have to be in order for hope to process correctly. Doesn't even have to be highfalutin' to show. I mean, I keep getting older, but they keep staying the same age...

 

[Live trash can]

I agree that it is interesting. The demographic change in all the countries where the fertility rate is below 2.0 is sometimes said to make things difficult in the future, when there are more of the elderly relatively speaking.

In my country we are told to believe in a large publicly owned fund. Which is about one trillion dollars I believe. We will live happily off that fund when there are fewer workers around relatively speaking.

 

[metalhead]

Well, we appear to be dealing with it by drawing the fertile here and then making them not really want to have kids so much.

Indeed. Which is better than what is happening in Japan, where they are both not having kids and not drawing new people in.

Imported people who are already alive are good substitutes for home grown people, from an economic perspective. So encouraging immigration is one way to deal with the problem.

It's also possible that the automated future sorts it out, keeps the diminishing number of young'uns nevertheless able to support the elderly due to ever-increasing productivity. But we will still need to pry lots of wealth away from the wealthy.

 

[Farm Boy]

I've got no particular problem with that approach. Most of them seem like nice Christian families that work their ass off until we spoil their kids. Probably like most of them better than I'd enjoy walking north Michigan Avenue.

But there's something to be said about who has hope and why.

 

[Live trash can]

One daughter of immigrants to Norway said she would like to be called: First generation Norwegian, rather that second generation immigrant.

 

[onejayhawk]

This could be an interesting discussion.

Nice. The change over the ten year period of the chart is striking.

As to encouraging births, Kuwait literally pays people to have and raise children.

J

 

[Farm Boy]

Seems like that would uncloudy parental leave some.

We tend to phrase it wrong. We ask, "Why would we pay a doctor we paid to become a doctor to not be a doctor?" When the question is, "Do we want our country to contain people who grew up as kids in a doctor's house?" We probably do. So we import them, which might not be a badness, but we do it because we're cheap.

 

[Cheetah]

We ask, "Why would we pay a doctor we paid to become a doctor to not be a doctor?" When the question is, "Do we want our country to contain people who grew up as kids in a doctor's house?" We probably do.

I'm gonna steal this one.

 

[Farm Boy]

The counterpoint is obviously that two parents are better than one and a doctor's salary should cover a full time childrearer/homemaker/community builder that is family instead of a hireling. But still. It's not quite exactly the same.

 

[HoloDoc]

I don't know why you're all concerned about a lack of kids. There are kids everywhere. Just go to Chucky Cheese and take one.

(Disclaimer: Do NOT actually go to Chucky Cheese and take a child)

Trump gave an interview last night with Axios where he said he is going to end birthright citizenship by executive order.

Good. We can renounce his citizenship and send him back to 1930s Germany where he belongs.

Good timing for the election.

There are BTW only 30 or so countries in the world that have (close to) unlimited birthright citizenship (birthes from foreign diplomats etc often excluded).
Many countries have as condition that one of the parents has citizenship, and/or that the parents live longer legally than a certain amount of years in the country.

"Only 30 or so countries..." Only.

I think we ought to encourage citizen births any way possible,

I'm willing to do my part.

I mean, a 10% drop in population per generation wouldn't exactly be disastrous.

I can come in with around 35% of people who shouldn't be allowed to breed...

Indeed. Which is better than what is happening in Japan, where they are both not having kids and not drawing new people in.

Imported people who are already alive are good substitutes for home grown people, from an economic perspective. So encouraging immigration is one way to deal with the problem.

It's also possible that the automated future sorts it out, keeps the diminishing number of young'uns nevertheless able to support the elderly due to ever-increasing productivity. But we will still need to pry lots of wealth away from the wealthy.

The Japanese are like the pandas of the human world. They don't seem to want to breed. When they go extinct, I call Tokyo.

I'm also quite happy to pry wealth away from the wealthy.

Nice. The change over the ten year period of the chart is striking.

As to encouraging births, Kuwait literally pays people to have and raise children.

J

Lots of countries do that. It's called welfare, and when done well it contributes to a society's overall well-being.

 

[metalhead]

Nice. The change over the ten year period of the chart is striking.

As to encouraging births, Kuwait literally pays people to have and raise children.

J

Uh, we do that here too.

 

[Hrothbern]

"Only 30 or so countries..." Only.

30 is not much of the nearly 200 countries.
And there are only 2 OECD countries among that 30: Canada and the US.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-who-offer-birthright-citizenship.html

 

[Silurian]

Nearly all countries in North and South America.

 

[HoloDoc]

30 is not much of the nearly 200 countries.
And there are only 2 OECD countries among that 30: Canada and the US.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-who-offer-birthright-citizenship.html

30 is over 15% of all countries. That's a pretty good percentage. And as @Silurian says, this seems to be a big deal in th Americas. Not sure why.

 

[Farm Boy]

Disparagement of old world infatuations with penis juice as the bedrock organizing principle of civilization. Minus backsliding.