[BTS] Jacob's Shadow game

[Farbulous]

After attempting to follow along OldDude's game, and hoping for some more direct coaching, here is a new shadow game for y'all to comment and guide a long-time/newb player.

EDIT: Initially, I had posted a start of the Noble's Club Gilgamesh game, but considering I'm not crazy about the map, and the early game is so crucial, I changed my mind and decided to start a new game. Just too many people already playing that one and I feel like I'm just following what others have done rather than learning as I go.

Having said that, here is the info:

Leader: Frederick (PHI/ORG) w Hunting & Mining
Pangea, Noble, NHNE, Normal speed, everything else standard
Running BUG Mod 4.4

My initial thoughts:
Since I have a scout, I'm thinking I could either send him 2E or 2SW, with a preference for the latter since that PH 1SW looks like a tasty place to settle. I'm not sure if 1S would be better though in order to be on the river. Considering how much forest I'm seeing, and already having Mining, I feel like BW is the obvious choice tech-wise.

Spoiler Starting position :

 

[Farbulous]

Totally unrelated - but is there any way to change my user name? Didn't realize it was going to use my full name. D'oh!

 

[krikav]

It's best if resource bubbles are on if you post screenshots.
(Name change up in menu-> player details)

Your opening looks exacly like every other player has done on this map. (Well... I did opt to go AH->Min->BW, but I'm the only one so far.)

What are your plan?

 

[lymond]

Couple of quick comments:

1) First, if using a stand-alone mod, which it appears you are doing, please identify the mod. I think you are using BUG mod 4.4 as standalone. Ideally you would install BUG in custom assets (SP option) so that the mod is not "loaded". Players can load the game with or without the mod. This is rather standard for forum games, unless the mod used is specifically identified. (just to give you an idea of what can happen, I tried opening your game and was sent into an infinite crash loop)

2) With that said, you could open the start save and generate a WB file > install BUG/BULL in SP mode > and start the game again using the WB file with BUG/BULL in custom assets. (since I assume this is Noble level, I don't believe any adjustments to the WB save is needed)

3) Generally it is best to get advice from Turn 0 before playing - analyzing map, settling position, first techs, etc. (although it appears you have made the right decisions..and yes...with what appears to be 2 corn resources, straight to BW is definitely the right play)

4) Oh..and please identify the game settings in the OP

5) edit: and yes, resource bubbles are our friend

 

[lymond]

As for changing your username, I'm not sure that is possible directly. I think you have to request a change from a mod. hmmm...I don't see the active mod list anymore, so not sure who best to contact. Try PMing @leif erikson, or maybe he'll chime in here due to my ping.

edit: Oh duh...just realized this is the recent Noble's Club game, so there are WB saves in abundance. You are fine. Well, except the fact that some may have trouble opening your saves directly, which may be reason to convert back to BUG/BULL in custom assets.

 

[Farbulous]

As for changing your username, I'm not sure that is possible directly. I think you have to request a change from a mod. hmmm...I don't see the active mod list anymore, so not sure who best to contact. Try PMing @leif erikson, or maybe he'll chime in here due to my ping.

I sent him a message just to be safe. Hope he can help me resolve. Thanks for that.

I've changed the game and made some of the adjustments you mentioned in my OP.

 

[lymond]

Well, you are still running standalone BUG mod. Can't open the save. (I maybe was not totally clear, but what I was highly recommending is installing BUG/BULL in custom assets - SP mode)

The thing with the scout/warrior move is will it reveal new information. Check the fog around the areas of possible moves for forests.

Hopefully, another food resource in fog (1 plains cow is very bad), but only possible spot I can see based on just your small screenshot is 2S1W of the settler. Settling 1S is probably the last thing I would do here - unless I had more info, which you will not get - avoid blind moves unless you gain something or sense that there is something there.

Based on the info I see right now, I'd settle on PH or ivory - probably ivory

 

[Farbulous]

Hey @lymond sorry about that. When I try uninstalling the standalone and then installing the SP option, it gets installed to the My Games folder instead of the Mods folder in the BTS folder. When I run the game and go to load a mod it does not appear on the list. Not sure how to fix this, so instead I tried creating a WB save instead. Let me know if it works, or what I'm doing wrong when installing the SP option.

Not sure why the screenshot is small... is this one any better? Did you mean the overall image is small, or that I was too zoomed out?

Spoiler First move :

I decided to move my scout 2SW to see if I could expose anything in that direction, and I was able to see another river to the SW. Because of what several folks had said about PH start, and the idea of being between two rivers, I decided to move the settler onto the PH and lo and behold there is a second cow - this one on grass. Based on this info, should I settle the PH now? Also, does having two cows mean I should go for AH instead of BW, or is it still better to go for chops, especially since I already have Mining to start?

 

[lymond]

That is what it's supposed to do. SP mode installs BUG in custom assets, which resides in my games>bts>custom assets. You don't have to load a mod, it is just "there" when you run the game. However, saves generated this way can be opened with or without a mod. (when I say stand-alone, I mean the mod has to be loaded...mods installed in the mod folder like BAT or BUFFY)

I"d probably settled on the ivory at turn 0, but maybe you luck into another resource. Settling on PH is certainly not bad.

FOOD always first, unless the rare case where you might have too many idle worker turns. You have 2 cows and an ivory to improve, and already start with hunting. BW should time fairly well afterwards since you start with mining.

(I don't see a WB save anywhere, but that is irrelevant since I can open any future saves. However, if you do create a turn 0 WB save you can play that when you install BUG correctly..or maybe you already have installed it correctly if you did not delete it from custom assets)

 

[Farbulous]

OK, I should have everything fixed now, and properly installed in the Custom Assets folder using the SP option. I'm attaching a new save here, which I hope doesn't give you any issues.

Spoiler T5 :

I settled on the PH, got a worker going and started researching BW. Scout went SE and I ran into Sitting Bull not too far away, but on the same river system, which looks massive.

 

[lymond]

BW is the wrong tech

 

[Farbulous]

OK. I rolled back to the beginning, and started AH instead.

Spoiler T12 :

Met Pericles coming out of the W on turn 4. Sitting Bull to the S.
That PH 1S of the rice looks like a good spot. Fish & gold with a border pop. Marble and horses is also tempting to the SW.

 

[krikav]

What are your plan?
This early in the beginning there are 4 things that need to be thought about:
1. What should I tech in what order?
2. In what order will my worker perform tasks?
3. In what order will my city build what?
4. What area should I scout and why?

I see you have agriculture selected now, is this your plan since you speak about the rice gold city?
You speak of a borderpop. How would that be accomplished? (Fredrish isn't creative!)

To improve your game, you need to improve your thinking and planning, for us to help you with that we need to know how you reason and plan.

 

[Farbulous]

What are your plan?
This early in the beginning there are 4 things that need to be thought about:
1. What should I tech in what order?
2. In what order will my worker perform tasks?
3. In what order will my city build what?
4. What area should I scout and why?

I see you have agriculture selected now, is this your plan since you speak about the rice gold city?
You speak of a borderpop. How would that be accomplished? (Fredrish isn't creative!)

To improve your game, you need to improve your thinking and planning, for us to help you with that we need to know how you reason and plan.

1. So far I have AH. My thought is BW > TW > AG > POT
2. I was going to send the worker first to the cow 1S for pasture, then over to Ivory for camp and up to the other cow for another pasture. By that time I should have BW and can start chopping.
3. After worker I was going to build 2-3 warriors for spawnbusting. Again, by that time I should have BW and can start chopping for settler.
4. I was going to keep the scout moving W > NW, hopefully to find more civs and see if there are any other key city placements.

I only have agriculture selected as a placeholder until I got some feedback. Since there are lots of forests, I figure BW is the most important to get next.
To accomplish borderpop, I wasn't sure whether I should grab Myst and build some monuments, or just go straight for Writing for libraries. I feel like Writing is probably the better option because it will save research and build time.

Thanks for getting me thinking a bit more in depth about these things.

 

[lymond]

3 things:

Why u improve ivory first? (Have u neen listening?)
BW is the right tech now
You may not need border pops... don’t base your tech logic on it

 

[Farbulous]

3 things:

Why u improve ivory first? (Have u neen listening?)
BW is the right tech now
You may not need border pops... don’t base your tech logic on it

Definitely been listening. My thought was after improving the cow tile 1S (first worker action) then I might as well hook up the ivory on the way up to the plains cow to save worker turns/movement. Should I skip ivory and just go right for the second cow?

Yeah, even if I do put my second city 1S of the rice, I figure that will be enough food without relying on the borderpop/fishing right away. With that being said, is my idea of BW > TW > AG > POT the right plan?

 

[lymond]

Please analyze the worker movement again

BW is only thing I’m committed to at the moment. Need more info

One resource I have my eye on right now...can ypu tell me what it is? (Hint: it belies our golden rule)

 

[Farbulous]

OK, above you said food always first, so I suppose I would still start on the grass cow and then right up to the plains cow. If that isn't the right move, then I'm not sure what I'm missing.

Tech-wise, let's see what happens when BW comes in.

You're saying it belies the golden rule, meaning that it goes against what we've been talking about so far. If that is the case I'm thinking you're eyeing the horse. Is that because it's in the direction of Sitting Bull and we want to prevent him from grabbing it?

 

[lymond]

Oh good..I can open your save. Had not even considered the AIs as I could not see them in the screenshots

Yep, food first. However, would point out that your logic on moving up to cows via the ivory is not logical. The resources are equidistant from the grass cow. Worker has to step into forest and can then move to cow or ivory. Cow is the obvious choice.

This is not a great food start, but the combined cows are pretty powerful, especially for settler/worker production. Probably not going to whip much early out of this city, using chops to fuel your production.

The logic on teching right now is a bit incomplete without a bit more map knowledge to the west. Limited AG resources in view. But you need either Ag or Fish to reach POT, or both.

Your idea on horse is good, but not what I was thinking. Gold is a very powerful resource. It is obviously not food, but provides a strong amount of commerce for early research. So if a gold is close by, I might target it first with the idea that that city will work the gold only for some time. (ideally with food potential later. I like 1N of gold - later city can use rice and farms. Fish city can go right next to fish later. Horse area is definitely a target spot though.

 

[krikav]

Gold is very powerful. Even settling a city that will stay at size 1 and work the gold only for the rest of the game is great.


This type of opening, where there isn't very strong food, usually leads me to think about the option to delay pottery abit.
The relative utility of the granary is less if you grow and whip less.
The options that this open up aren't that fancy though, it's things like a possible oracle play, or simply writing first. Which can be on the table with a cre or phi leader.
For learning purposes though, it's best to not stray away from the most normal opening.