JesuisGrec

[Kyriakos]

Relevant article (in Greek) : http://gr.news.yahoo.com/γ&#95...ληνες-153221776.html

Relevant site (French Blog) http://jesuisgrec.blogspot.com/

Well, it is a movement started in the French city of Nantes with some thousands of people acquiring a Greek citizenship, as an act of solidarity with Greece. It continued with more, not only French (France has a special tie to Greece, for many reasons such as the francophonie, but also due to the south being Greek in the era of colonies), but Europeans from all other countries too.

It seems like an interesting movement. Its end seems to be the stopping of the economic war looming over all of Europe, on its current stage.

I hope it has some effect. Papademos (likened to Hitler by some media ) does not seem to be helping the country, and consequently Europe, much.

You can discuss anything relevant to the site, and particularly the movement of the people of Nantes. Is it going to be significant? Do you support it? Is any such move for Europe needed?

 

[Cheetah]

So these people, are they planning to help by paying taxes to Greece or something?

I'd hope they're not getting Greek citizenship for the welfare benefits at least...

 

[Kyriakos]

Some info on the actual declaration:

Spoiler :

Solidarity with the Greek people !

I, too, am Greek !
We demand double nationality !

Enfuriated by the cowardice and lack of imagination of the Western
governments—including our own (1)—towards the dictatorship of the
financial markets;

And disgusted by the current humiliations being imposed on the Greek
people, shamefully accused of excess and dishonesty, pronounced guilty
without being allowed a defence (2), condemned to endless austerity
and penitant contrition, in a language that evokes 1940 and Pétain
with its "moral order," "effort" and "spirit of joy;"

And certainly not forgotting those who now sacrifice Greece to the
financial speculators, pretend that "economic fascism" will content
itself with the little countries, sparing themselves...

... those same people who abandoned Czechoslovakia to Adolf Hitler in
Munich in 1938, hoping that he would be satisfied with this new prey,
following the cowardice shown to the Spanish republicans (3);

We will no longer support these nouveaux riches (the triumphant 1% of
the globalised world), who ignore the moral debt that humanity owes to
the Greek nation (4), which sowed the first seeds of direct democracy
(5), based precisely on the abolition of debts and the emancipation of
citizens reduced to slavery by their indebtedness 2500 years ago (6).

For all these reasons, we are all Greeks. We want to send a clear
signal right now that we will no longer collaborate a minute longer in
passivity towards the financial regime imposed on Greece (7). We wish
to express our solidarity with Greece, and to share, at least
symbolically, the fate of its people.

We therefore ask for dual Greek nationality, by making a formal
request to the Greek ambassador in our country. We will launch this
campaign with a list of primary signatories on the 24 November 2011, a
date that is also the anniversary of a significant action by the Greek
resistance at the Gorgopotamos Viaduct on the night of the 24/25
November 1942 (8).

 

[warpus]

The 1% didn't wreck Greece.

The Greek people did, including the politicians.

 

[Kyriakos]

The 1% didn't wreck Greece.

The Greek people did, including the politicians.

Ok, i guess since the sage has spoken there should be silence now.

The thread is a RD for a reason, do not post insignificant things.

 

[warpus]

The proclamation is a rant against the financial markets and speaks of the "humiliation" of the Greek people.

It's silly.

 

[Cheetah]

The proclamation is rather silly, and doesn't really present any kind of solution.

So again I'm wondering: Are these new Greeks going to help Greece out by paying taxes to Greece, or will they just encumber the Greek state by adding more work to the bureaucracy and increasing the number of people who may have rights to Greek welfare?

And it seems quite clear that what ruined Greece was an overarching culture where it was generally accepted to evade taxation in any way possible, while at the same time voting in politicians who constantly increased the expenditures of the state. The richest people in Greece may well have benefited the most from it, and have now most certainly hidden away their fortunes in foreign locations, but more or less everyone took part in it.

Greece has collectively lived above it's means, and now the game is up.

The increase in suicides, the children left at churches and institutions because the parents can't take care of them, the small businesses who're constantly going bankrupt and the increasing number of people in Greece who go hungry to bed, are symptoms of this tragedy. It is all terrible, but the fault for it all lays heavily among the Greek people themselves.

 

[warpus]

And it seems quite clear that what ruined Greece was an overarching culture where it was generally accepted to evade taxation in any way possible

Not only that, from what I read there were TONS of jobs in the country that were not necessary public jobs.. with very nice salaries, amazing benefits, etc.

Crap like that would catch up with any country..

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

So these people, are they planning to help by paying taxes to Greece or something?

I'd hope they're not getting Greek citizenship for the welfare benefits at least...

I don't think anyone would become Greek for the welfare benefits right now, more so when u are french (since France welfare policy is pretty much generous... though maybe it won't last ).

And each citizen who pays tax in the EU is already helping Greece and every country within the union.

This is symbolic.

 

[Oruc]

Until these people arm themselves and fight to destroy the system, they will not change anything of note.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If read it carefully, you will detect a slight Godwin in the declaration.

 

[Leoreth]

As a Czech or Slovak I would take offense to this.

 

[warpus]

As a Czech or Slovak I would take offense to this.

I take slight offense to it, because it puts the blame of what happened on the financial markets, or whatever.

People should take responsibility for problems they caused..

 

[Kyriakos]

It is a bad sign to talk emphatically about things you do not have epistemic knowledge of.

I am not an economist either, but i do know that:

-The greek debt is to become 150 billion euro

-Greek accounts outside of Greece= 200 billion euro

-Greek assets of state > 400 billion euro

-And Greece has the largest commercial fleet in the world, so it could use it too, in various ways

And then again there is all this talk of bankruptcy. Seems at least strange. Also you should have understood that if the markets were not playing a game they would not have downgraded France and Austria. More will come.

But all that was said for the hypothesis that i am responding to good-willed posts (and not antagonistic ones), a hypothesis which cannot be certifiably true.

 

[warpus]

It isn't surprising that people are taking advantage of the situation. I disagree that this is right too, but, I'll let my other points stand

 

[innonimatu]

The proclamation is a rant against the financial markets and speaks of the "humiliation" of the Greek people.

It's silly.

Oh, they are humiliated all right. They humiliate themselves by not just defaulting on their damn debt as they should! No one has a gun pointed at them. They can default, they just don't want to because that would be hard. Head in the sand strategy...

 

[Leoreth]

I am not an economist either, but i do know that:

-The greek debt is to become 150 billion euro

-Greek accounts outside of Greece= 200 billion euro

-Greek assets of state > 400 billion euro

-And Greece has the largest commercial fleet in the world, so it could use it too, in various ways

And then again there is all this talk of bankruptcy. Seems at least strange.

Seems strange to me too. The course of action there isn't that arcane. The talk of bankruptcy is because the Greeks don't want or can't take it.

 

[Traitorfish]

I take slight offense to it, because it puts the blame of what happened on the financial markets, or whatever.

People should take responsibility for problems they caused..

As such?

Ah, but you meant "take responsibility in ways that I approve of". Forgot to read between the lines...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

who ignore the moral debt that humanity owes to
the Greek nation

Which is?

For all these reasons, we are all Greeks. We want to send a clear
signal right now that we will no longer collaborate a minute longer in
passivity towards the financial regime imposed on Greece.

I agree. Get out of the EU, but first repay the financial aid which brought this 'financial regime' with it.

 

[Aleenik]

Citizenship is stupid. I hate being an American citizen, but I have to keep my citizenship for obvious reasons. I am an internationalist. I consider myself an inhabitant of Earth.

As for the economic crisis, f the reactionary reform this and reform that thought process. There is but only one real cure for the economic crisis that arise within capitalism. The cure is to abolish the disease itself. Power to the people in Greece and around the world.