JFD and Janboruta's Civilisations

[Urdnot_Scott]

I think I proposed a middle east split somewhere else and got down a few ideas. I would say the Rashidun aren't important enough to warrant a split from the Ummayads or the Umma if either are included, but I think including the Umma may be a little insensitive or contreversial, so I wouldn't reccomend it. I'd go with:

Umayyads - Faith and War.
Abbassids - Science and Faith
Almohads/Almoravids/Cordoba - Culture
Ayyubids - Already done.
Modern Arabia (representing Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, personally I'd have them led by Shiekh Zayed of the UAE rather than one of the Saudi Kings, as though Saudi Arabia is the main player in the region, I feel Zayed achieved more in his reign than Faisal.) - (tonnes of) Gold and Tourism.

Therefore covering basically every victory condition.

Anyways, I've got ideas for some of them, if anyone's interested.

I'd be interested, I've ideas for all 4 here too. I love civ splits, I think there are a few other civs that could be split, if not all of them, I can't think of a civ that doesn't have a couple worthy incarnations. Well... maybe not the Zulu.

 

[regalman]

Nah. The Umayyads were better known for gold and conquest. Abbasids could be science/culture and some conquest. Rashidun could be Faith and conquest

Saudi arabia could be more yields from resources and the double oil count UA

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I'd be interested, I've ideas for all 4 here too. I love civ splits, I think there are a few other civs that could be split, if not all of them, I can't think of a civ that doesn't have a couple worthy incarnations. Well... maybe not the Zulu.

Well, I guess a Cetswayo Zulu civ could be different enough from that of Shaka, most people don't realize the Zulu-British wars happened long after Shaka was dead, still though, it's a stretch.

Now, a Hunnic civ under someone else than Atilla, now that'd be worth seeing.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Nah. The Umayyads were better known for gold and conquest. Abbasids could be science/culture and some conquest. Rashidun could be Faith and conquest

Saudi arabia could be more yields from resources and the double oil count UA

I dunno, the Umayyads were responsible for the incredible expansion of Islam from the Indus to Iberia, that definitely merits a civ based around conquest and some faith, note I wrote their emphasis with the primary use first, so Umayyads would be mostly about conquest with a faith generating UB or something. Abbassids similarly, I'd like to see a sort of hybrid of faith and science, I wrote up an Abbassid civ a little while ago focussed on maximising both resources.

Saudi Arabia on its own isn't important enough to warrant a civ, which is why I'd rather a bloob of the modern Arab states, Saudi, Qatar, and the UAE etc. with bonuses to trade and yeah, probably the double oil thrown in there.

Well, I guess a Cetswayo Zulu civ could be different enough from that of Shaka, most people don't realize the Zulu-British wars happened long after Shaka was dead, still though, it's a stretch.

Now, a Hunnic civ under someone else than Atilla, now that'd be worth seeing.

Ah yeah, that's true, though they'd inevitably both be focused on war, the primary difference between the two being that Shaka warred with his contemparies, whereas Cestwayo fought against a superior power.

And you could split the Huns into the European Huns and Chinese Xiongu

 

[JFD]

Great to know we agree on this matter.

On the other hand, do you now plan on revising/splitting Byzantium?

Byzantium will keep the Cataphract; it is too iconic in association with them. But the Dromon will be re-purposed as a Liburna for Constantine, and Byzantium will get a UB.[/QUOTE]

I remember when BNW was announced with the great works mechanic, I just assumed Byzantium would get a twist on it's UA so great works in the Capital produced additional faith, you know, because of Byzantine iconography. When that didn't appear, I was pretty stumped.

Sure enough, at the very least, the Hagia Sophia now gives faith from Great Works in Piety and Prestige.

But I just read more about al-Rashid, and it turns out Arabian trade with Europe, as well as diplomatic relationships, began and flourished during his reign. So I guess I should do a bit more research (and, indeed, think more) before posting complaints. Although the civ does not reference the diplomacy or protection of christians during al-Rashid's reign. Or the albino elephant.

Your complaint is still valid, as the implicit design as that of an all-inclusive Arabic civ. Firaxis is at no fault for their design - they couldn't make a coherent design with it also referencing a hundred different things. It's just that, like Persia and China, Arabic history is composed of the succession of very powerful, very diverse dynasties and their empires.

I guess the answer would be (as always) to make a split. Suggestions: The Ummah under Muhammad, obviously without leader art, or alternately the Rashidun Caliphate, under Abu Bakr (less controversial, but quite honestly less interesting); the Umayyad Caliphate, possibly under Walid I; the Abbasid Caliphate, under Harun al-Rashid, go figure; maybe also the Fatimids in addition to the already existing Ayyubids.

Although that would require some time, of course. I would pick it up myself if I had art.
And motivation.
And knew how to mod.

If I knew how to do art, I would certainly take up the task of an Arab split. But I don't, unfortunately, and I have to be selective in what I want to work with Janboruta on, and an Arab split is not one of them.

 

[SULOMON]

I love Italy! The Caio Dulio class is so awesome. With the Great Lighthouse and Exploration they have 5 movement which is 10 in coastal water! With Blitz one can hit a city then pull out and repeat with another one. Very powerful and fun. The UA is also very unique and interesting.

 

[JFD]

I love Italy! The Caio Dulio class is so awesome. With the Great Lighthouse and Exploration they have 5 movement which is 10 in coastal water! With Blitz one can hit a city then pull out and repeat with another one. Very powerful and fun. The UA is also very unique and interesting.

The idea behind the UA was to have the player pursue the legacy of the Roman Empire (or, the legacy of the Roman UA), given this has been the intent of many Italian nationalists (like Mussolini).

Glad you enjoy

 

[spiffster422]

I recently downloaded the Soviet Union civs and Nazi Germany civ. I was playing as Lenin (I like the worker unit additional ability by the way) and I was so confused when it said 'friendly' with Hitler. I was like, wha?? Then he just up and declares war on me. I never laughed so hard.

"Haha I fool you!" - Hitler

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

I'm really stirring up this thread, am I not?

Byzantium will keep the Cataphract; it is too iconic in association with them. But the Dromon will be re-purposed as a Liburna for Constantine, and Byzantium will get a UB.

Now I don't know where you're coming from. Isn't technically greek fire more associated with Byzantium than the cataphract is? I mean, the Byzantine were after all the only people who used the weapon, while the cataphract was used by loads of people, even centuries before Byzantium existed. So, like Gyra Solune said, the cataphract should be a unit for all civs and the horseman moved to the ancient era. I also hope you consider adding the Hippodrome as a replacement for the Circus Maximus.

I'd be interested, I've ideas for all 4 here too. I love civ splits, I think there are a few other civs that could be split, if not all of them, I can't think of a civ that doesn't have a couple worthy incarnations. Well... maybe not the Zulu.

I also love splits, they demonstrate the variety in the different civilizations. But if we're going to talk about a potential Arabian (or in my case Caliphate) split, I suggest we do it elsewhere, as JFD is not very likely to pick it up, as he can't.

 

[JFD]

Now I don't know where you're coming from. Isn't technically greek fire more associated with Byzantium than the cataphract is? I mean, the Byzantine were after all the only people who used the weapon, while the cataphract was used by loads of people, even centuries before Byzantium existed. So, like Gyra Solune said, the cataphract should be a unit for all civs and the horseman moved to the ancient era. I also hope you consider adding the Hippodrome as a replacement for the Circus Maximus.

Hm, yes. Okay, I'll switch the Cataphract and Dromon around then.

I also love splits, they demonstrate the variety in the different civilizations. But if we're going to talk about a potential Arabian (or in my case Caliphate) split, I suggest we do it elsewhere, as JFD is not very likely to pick it up, as he can't.

Well, I don't know. Maybe another artist will stumble upon the discussion and be able to contribute. I can do maps and civ icons, but that's about it. I'd certainly be interested in some sort of Arab split, if that barrier can be broken. I'd suggest the Ummayads, the Abbasids, the Rashidun and the Fatimids.

Any ideas for symbols? Obviously, the Abbasids will need a new one too.

 

[regalman]

I have the same exact tablet as Jan does. Just need more practice and I'm all for maps and icons other than civ icons

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Hm, yes. Okay, I'll switch the Cataphract and Dromon around then.

Great! So how do things end up now? Where does the cataphract go and will Constantine keep the Liburna?

Well, I don't know. Maybe another artist will stumble upon the discussion and be able to contribute. I can do maps and civ icons, but that's about it. I'd certainly be interested in some sort of Arab split, if that barrier can be broken. Given the Ayyubids are already done, I'd suggest the Ummayads, the Abbasids and the Rashidun/Fatimids.

Well, it seems like regalman is interested. I am not an expert on Arabian history, though; I'm pretty much restricted to the middle ages, as that time period in particular interests me. I guess We ought to follow your suggestions and avoid the Umma. Although I've got some really interesting ideas (IMO) for them. As for the others I suggest:

Umayyads - military and faith
Abbasids - gold, diplomacy and defense, possibly also religious tolerance
Rashidun - faith and military
Fatimid - I don't know, as my current knowledge only covers the previous.

As for other splits I'd like to see, it'd primarily be Japan and China, but I think someone's already planning on the latter.

EDIT:

Any ideas for symbols? Obviously, the Abbasids will need a new one too.

For Harun al-Rashid there's always the coin that ended up in Mercia.

When I googled "umayyad icon" I found this.

 

[JFD]

Great! So how do things end up now? Where does the cataphract go and will Constantine keep the Liburna?

Constantine == Cataphract, Theodora == Dromon. Depending on how the design plays out, Constantine will either get the Liburna or a UB. Theodora gets a UB regardless.

As for other splits I'd like to see, it'd primarily be Japan and China, but I think someone's already planning on the latter.

Lol, yeah, me

 

[COF]

There is a Japanese civilization split as well, somewhere.

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Lol, yeah, me

Yeah, I know.

There is a Japanese civilization split as well, somewhere.

Ah, of course. I guess I'm just being ignorant as always.

 

[COF]

Ah, of course. I guess I'm just being ignorant as always.

Found it http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=490498

 

[Pouakai]

Umayyads - military and faith
Abbasids - gold, diplomacy and defense, possibly also religious tolerance
Rashidun - faith and military
Fatimid - I don't know, as my current knowledge only covers the previous.

My plan for it is to go Ayyubids / Abbasids / Almohads and maybe the Fatimids. Fatimids would be a militaristic one, while the Abbasids would be science and trade oriented and the Almohads would be pious builders. Ayyubids would be as-is

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

My plan for it is to go Ayyubids / Abbasids / Almohads and maybe the Fatimids. Fatimids would be a militaristic one, while the Abbasids would be science and trade oriented and the Almohads would be pious builders. Ayyubids would be as-is

I think JFD's Caliphate institution will take care of the science for the Abbasids, giving them the opportunity to focus on diplomacy, as Harun al-Rashid expanded that immensively. Like I said, I do not know much about the Fatimids. But I did not even think of the Almohads, those would obviously be possible. But no Umayyads or Rashiduns? I feel at least the Umayyads must be part of the split.

 

[JFD]

My plan for it is to go Ayyubids / Abbasids / Almohads and maybe the Fatimids. Fatimids would be a militaristic one, while the Abbasids would be science and trade oriented and the Almohads would be pious builders. Ayyubids would be as-is

I thought I'd keep it more Arabic, and as an Arabic Caliphate split (Ayyubids weren't a Caliphate, and the Almohads are a Moroccan-Berber empire). Another reason against the Almohads was that I thought it could be redundant, if ever someone were to do a Cordoban Caliphate or similar.

 

[regalman]

I think putting in hatshepsuts Egypt would be a good idea
I also have maps for the Umayyad and rashidun almost done

Oo! Oo! My caliphate of Cordoba should be released in a week


I also think that the Fatimid/cordoba/Umayyad/rashidun/Abbasid is too medieval. 1 modern and 1 ancient civ should be there, like the India pack