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JOE-05 - The Crusades

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by JesusOnEez, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    I didnt post a save?

    Dammit. Okay guys, if that happens it's because I've been crazily busy and I honestly thought I had. If it happens again, please Pm me at once.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Got it. Play tomorrow.

    @vra, don't worry about it, we've all done it I think..I certainly have. However, your turn post was so short, I don't think anyone thought it was finished. Otherwise we would have asked for the save. Some more detail and screenshots would be appreciated by the team, and just makes it a more interesting read.

    Also, if you're ever crazily busy enough not to play in the time-frame, then a simple quick post requesting a skip or swap will keep the game moving along nicely.

    Cheers,

    JOE
     
  3. mice

    mice Moose

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    I'm keen to see what you do with it Jesuson . We're all keen for a fight, but the timing will be tricky. If we lose the island we can always take it back later.
     
  4. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Yeah, I need to think carefully about this Settler as we do need a heavy production city as Cosmic mentioned.
     
  5. Thomas G.

    Thomas G. Warlord

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    Lurker's comment:
    It looks like neither Germany or France has religion yet. IF you could manage to spread christianity to them they would quite likely adopt it and be loyal allies for the upcoming war. This would also be more historically accurate - in fact, the Byzantine didn't really set out on crusade, they merely defended their lands. The various western kingdoms actually went crusading. Among them the Frankish, German, English and Italian. Since you guys have enough land to prosper in, how about a slightly more "roleplaying" approach? At least try to spread christianity peacefully here in the "west"...
     
  6. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    It's an interesting thought. On the roleplaying side it'd be quite cool, on the gameplaying side we'd be providing them with free defence with culture, and Louis will be a tough enough nut to crack as it is being Creative. Spreading it to Germany so he helps with slapping Louis around seems an attractive thought...

    ...ponders...

    What do the rest of you guys think?
     
  7. Rince

    Rince King

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    In your city, poisoning your water!
    I would agree with trying to convert both. It makes a lot of sense historically since both the french or franks and the germans were heavily involved in the crusades.

    From a gameplay POV there are three advantages:
    - Keep them from attacking us.
    - Make a good amount of money through our holy city.
    - Always know what kind and how many units are defending their cities.

    The only negative point seems to be that once we converted them, it would be hard to attack either of them without alienating the other. But if we could grab the island and maybe some terrain to the east we might have enough land to peacefully expand for a while.

    Greetings,

    Rince
     
  8. mice

    mice Moose

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    For roleplay we could vassalize them and them direct them to fight for us.

    (Variant question; What if our vassal accepts Islam? I think we have to accept it and convert as many cities of thiers as possible.)

    Also Converting them and not attacking leaves us without a production city too. I was expecting France to have a prod city.

    One more point, Louis is a backstabbing SoB.

    France right next to the heart of our empire later on sounds like a weak position.

    The cultural defence won't matter if we attack with catapults, which I think is best for Paris, the danger is longbows. I usually play on normal speed so I'm out of wack with this opening. Cant get a feel for the timing.

    If we leave Louis and Freddy, our first targets would be quite far away, making econ difficult.

    BTW 4 cities pre-currency is good but more could stretch us. I think we need to get to currency before taking on too many more cities, or writing/library in Rome and run 2 scientists.
     
  9. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Vassalize em!

    Takes the suspense out of things, and makes expansion easier. Notw however, vassalize does not mean cripple.
     
  10. Rince

    Rince King

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    When you are talking about vassalization, do you think of doing it with the World Builder or through war?
     
  11. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Vassalizing sounds great but with what? We have no production to speak of to pump out units and Rome can only be whipped so much. I like the idea of vassal but remember gents we do need Feudalism for that. Not sure but I think that's a ways off. And creating vassals in worldbuilder for me just ruins the spirit of the game. We would have to do it the hard way. Since we would need feudalism then I'm sure that by the time we get it Louis/Frederick will have it. Although cats/and CR3 praets will still take them out. Fortunately neither one of them is protective. If any of those cities are on a hill (which the AI tends to do a lot in warlords) we will need a ton of cats. Let's see what that island has to offer first and then think about war.

    I agree with mice on that we should watch our expansion as it tends to put commerce in the crapper. If we find something of interest on that island then we will incur extra maintenance too if we settle there. In the long run we do need horses too as they make a nice compliment to the stack.
     
  12. Rince

    Rince King

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    In your city, poisoning your water!
    Agree that World Builder would ruin the spirit. That's why I was asking.

    My suggestion is to stay peaceful for now, expanding slowly to the island or the territory to our east, look for our real enemy and spread christianity to our 'allies' in this crusade.

    Rince
     
  13. mice

    mice Moose

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    I concur. Maybe 1 more city, then as many cottages as we can work, and writing with some scientists in Rome. Hopefully we can squeak through to currency, CoL. We might be facing longbows by then. By vassalizing I meant military - definitely not Wbuilder.
     
  14. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    OK, despite how much a really want to kill and maim Louis, we'll hold off and spread the faith to keep him sweet.

    mice asks what happens if Islam spreads to one of our near neighbours and they convert? Well, we simply spread Christianity so more of their cities are Christian, and get him to convert back again. Failing that, he becomes a "viable target".

    Also, sorry to do this so early in the game, but I need a swap with Cosmic and possibly Rince. My computer is bringing up a svchost.exe error and hanging all over the place, so I need to spend some time diagnosing the issue later, although I'm pretty sure it's a Windows Update issue (has been in the past).

    Rooster Update:
    Cosmichail - Up (Swapped With JesusOnEez)
    JesusOnEez - On Deck (Swapped With Cosmichail)
    Rince -
    Mice -
    Vra379971 - Just Played
     
  15. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    I don't like Windows update either and cringe when it uploads new patches. What gets me it's always the same description: "browser security". Boy will they ever get it right? (there was one recently)

    As to swapping that's fine Jesusoneez I'll pick this up and play later today. So spread the faith and kill Louis. Wait a minute don't kill Louis. Aaaaah I just love beating both those guys into the ground. (Nappy/Louis). Both backstabbers but I'll be good. :devil:
     
  16. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    [offtopic]

    I've found a fix for it that'll take some time but should sort it out. It's a problem I've had before, and they recommend running the fix again, then turning of automatic updates altogether. You can manually run the updates as and when you like without fear of the problem occuring again, as it's physically caused by whatever program runs automatic updates...
     
  17. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Preturn observations:

    The gold isn't hooked up yet and feel that should be a priorty to get Rome a little happier since we have to whip it good. Continue with the workers roading to Neapolis and eventual mining the iron.

    Veto barracks in Cumae and start another worker so we can hook up the gold and hopefully get Antium working it as well as 7 gold right now would keep our economy afloat.

    In addition the granary in Neapolis is vetoed as well and a monument started for a border pop. No culture there right now and we need it. Both items where I vetoed are queued so they will begin once the monument/worker is finished.

    As to spreading our faith we will need polytheism to get to monotheism which will involve investing a lot of beakers. Since we already started writing I left it as we had beakers invested in it. (sounds like the stock market hee hee) Did check with others for trade but nobody has alphabet yet.

    Rome continues with its build of settler although we really can't afford it. Next build in Rome was a Galley so that we could head to that island and see what's in the fog too.

    During this time Freddy converts to Judaism and somebody builds the Mahabodhi so Buddhism will come on strong.



    Hatty asks for this deal and we decline for now. We don't need health as such but happy.



    We have to whip Rome hard as the settler needs a guard to the island and leaving Rome ungarrisoned results in the "we fear for our safety" deal so better to whip up an axe to alleviate that. Rome should be left for a while to recover.

    Here's what we find on the island and for a change one of cities will be able to grow/grow like Rome and offer good production. The site offers horses/sheep/two fish and two grass hills/one desert/4 grass site (for cottages) one plains forest/one grass forest. Not a super, super production site but will be the best producer of all our cities. (maybe the missionary spammer)



    This is where we settled but it put our economy in the hole and we will need currency very soon. I just felt that we need to take that site considering we need horses and the sheep will help with health.

    The settled site:



    I am not that crazy about Neapolis since it doesn't have any food to support it. Good thing iron is on grass so it can be worked. Personally I would have settled closer inland to catch the cows but I wouldn't have settled there period. The site south of Rome is a better site and should be settled soon before Louis/Hatty/Freddy get some ideas to settle there. It wouldn't offer much production but good commerce site. The need to get that site on the island imo was paramount since it's one of those sites made in heaven. I started a monument in it and won't take long to build so we get a border pop.

    The workers are mining the gold and once done perhaps they should head to island and hook up the horses and sheep. After the monument I would suggest a couple of workboats once borders pop.

    I take it that Rince you're up since Jesus asked for swap until his computer is fixed.

    Rooster update

    Cosmichail - just played (now we got horsies)
    JesusOnEez - On Deck
    Rince - UP swap with Jesus (unless he decides to take it)
    Mice -
    Vra379971

    Btw I played 11 turns to round it back even numbers. Somebody didn't play full ten turns at some point.
     

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  18. Rince

    Rince King

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    Congrats, good stuff. I'm glad that the island offers good terrain and that you were able to settle there.

    I will play it in about 12 hours if we don't hear of JesusOnEez before that.

    Rince
     
  19. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Nice observations there Cosmic...certainly is a struggle this game!

    Rince, you go ahead and I'll take it next. PC's seems to be OK, but I want play a quick tiny map game to check it's not going to crash on me.
     
  20. Rince

    Rince King

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    Location:
    In your city, poisoning your water!
    Here are my turns. Not very eventful and I didn't have to take any groundbreaking decisions.

    Turn 1

    First thing I spot is the goody hut on the island so I decide it's about time to pop it. Production in Rome is set to a scout and a galley is readied.
    Meanwhile Hatty converts to Judaism.

    Turn 2

    We discover Writing and I set research to Polytheism.

    Turn 3

    Rome Scout -> Praet. The scout boards the galley and heads for the goodie hut.

    Turn 4



    Ready to pop the hut, we get ............... 41 gold.
    Not really great but better than a bunch of barbs. I increase science to 40% in light of our new found wealth.

    Meanwhile on the main land, gold is hooked up and turns our whole empire into one happy place. Two of the three workers head to Rome to catch the next ferry to the island.

    Turn 5 nothing

    Turn 6

    Louis converts to Hinduism and our financial situation allows to increase science again, to 50%.

    Turn 7

    We loose a warrior somewhere deep in the wood to the south. Did not know about him. He must have been fortified or sleeping.

    We are rated #4 in culture.

    Turn 8

    Looks like it's religion-changing-day since Fred also converts to Hinduism. We need to hurry up with our missionaries!

    Turn 9

    I decline a Clam/Fish deal from Fred, Rome finishes Praet and will produce a Settler next to get the spot south of Rome. Rome is unhappy anyway and we can't whip yet.

    Turn 10



    I also prepare to attack the barb city north of Neapolis. An axeman with Cover I and a Praet with CR I are already on the way. The axe has a chance of 70% to defeat one of the two archers ATM but we have to wait for the Praet to arrive.

    That's it. Nice to see that our finances are improving. We also have a considerable army. Now we just need to boost science and then religion.

    Rooster:

    Cosmichail
    Rince - just played
    JesusOnEez - up next (swapped)
    Mice - on deck
    Vra379971

    Here's the file:
     

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