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JOE-05 - The Crusades

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by JesusOnEez, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Good stuff Rince nice turns. Iirc scouts will only produce good results from huts not warriors. So good choice on getting a scout up there and right now 41 gold is a big help.

    Finally the gold is hooked up and hopefully Antium is working it. That's an additional 7 commerce to boost our science. Things are looking up.
     
  2. mice

    mice Moose

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    Some observations; are we heading for Org religion? We need masonry for it too, and that makes it quite a ways off. Shouldnt we try to get to currency?
    Org religion will give us missionaries, but with no shrine, ie. no boost to economy. Religion seems to be a lost cause on our landmass until we start 'convincing' people that christianity is the way to go with Preatorians.Also missionaries cost hammers, that we have very few of.

    About Polynesian, We can't afford a new city. I think the settler in Rome should crouch in the zone by the rice south of Rome and settle if/when some other settler shows up. (except that the AI can land and settle in one turn).Better still veto it and build a library.

    We can chop one more forest in Rome to accomodate a cottage.Best use of the hammers would be a library IMO.Work the seafood with scientists. And chop to make cottage space in a few of the other cities too. With continued Preat production we can probably take a couple of Louis cities and then defend. We need currency before any more cities IMO.
     
  3. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    You're right Mice so poly->masonry->monotheism but we do need currency soon.

    I don't know if investing beakers into those techs is worth it as at some point we should be able to trade for them. The AI is teching fast so they should have alphabet soon so the question is will we have something to trade. Better to research a tech for trade bait right now maybe something the AI doesn't typically go for.

    As to barb city I would hope that we are going to raze it just for coin/XP points as it isn't worth keeping.

    To settling south of Rome I concur with Mice in that we should just keep a settler there in the event AI tries to settle there. Just leave him on so that we keep a constant reminder that he's there and to check for AI landing.

    If we see a galley from Louis it may be invasion or settler. Hard to tell with patch now.
     
  4. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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  5. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    INHERITED - 190BC
    Antium isn't working the Gold. I rectify this, and despite slowing growth from 4 to 12, Polytheism is reduced by 1 turn, as is the Lighthouse. I know you may prefer growth, but in the early stage of the game, hooking up gold and working on it can make a big difference. We don't have to work it later as the amount of gold will hopefully be inconsequential...then we can let it grow faster.

    Rome is working a Grassland Forest tile. I change it to the Cottage tile. This makes no change to Rome's Settler build time, nor Polytheism (4 turns), but you've gotta work 'em to grow 'em!

    TURN 1 - 175BC
    The Scout is heading into French lands. A Galley has just arrived in Rome. I send it back to Pisae, as it may well be transporting Horse based units in the not-to-distant future. The Praet in Rome is sent to Neapolis, which is what I see as our staging ground for attacks.

    I bump research from 50% (+1gpt) to 70% (-6gpt). Polytheism is now in 2 turns.

    The Scout in France notes that Lyon is protected by nothing but a Spear (and a Wall, and 50% culture).

    TURN 2 - 160BC
    Antium finishes Lighthouse and starts a Library to get the most out of the Gold and to help against culture pressure.

    A chop helps a Granary finish in Cumae, and I put the rest of the chop towards a Praet (8 turns). Cumae's worker starts a Mine.

    TURN 3 - 145BC
    Polytheism comes in. Masonry in 5 turns. Research is now at 60% (-3gpt) from 70% without loss of research time for Masonry.

    Our CR1 Sword beats and Archer in the Barb village at 95% odds.

    TURN 4 - 130BC
    I upgrade the victorious Praet to CRII and send him to Neapolis after the CI Axe defeats an Archer and raises the Barb village for 59 Gold. He's off to do a spot of fog busting!

    Research is bumped up to 80% (-10gpt) for Masonry in 3 turns.

    TURN 5 - 115BC
    The Settler in Rome finishes and heads for the South site. A Library is started.

    TURN 6 - 100BC
    Fred completes the Temple of Artemis.

    Look what Louis has cooking...note that all his other cities (so far) have been defended by nothing more than an Archer and Spear AT MOST!



    At the moment, I can't see that he has Iron or Horses, but he does have them in the near vicinity of his lands.

    TURN 7 - 85BC
    Neapolis has a border expansion and is fighting for culture with Lyon. A Granary finishes here, and a Lighthouse is started for want of something better to build...this city sucks and will probably suck for all time. Hey-ho!

    Masonry finishes, and Monotheism is in 7 turns with research at 70% (-6gpt).

    TURN 8 - 70BC
    Hatty wants the Clam/Fish deal again, so I tell her to get stuffed.

    Louis completes the Great Wall.

    TURN 9 - 55BC
    Nothing.

    TURN 10 - 40BC
    Cumae finishes a Praet which is sent to Neapolis, and starts a Spear...both Freddy and Louis have Horses in their vicinity, so having a few spears in an attack stack will be handy.
     
  6. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Fairly quiet turns...mostly juggling the research slider about to get the best research times possible without losing too much cash. Still, Monotheism will be with us in short order, and then we can head for Currency if that's your poison. We need Mathematics for that which is needed for Construction as well so that's all good. Maybe we should stick Alphabet in first and trade?

    I know it was mentioned about running a couple of Science Specialists in Rome when the Library is built, but here's another thought. How about going for Alphabet after Monotheism, trading for the tech that allows Temple builds, building a Temple in Rome and running a Prophet Specialist for the Great Prophet...if we're spreading our religion around like wildfire, better to have the Christian Shrine as early as possible...then run a couple of Science Specialists for the Great Scientist and an Academy, and which the beakers shoot up the more we spread the faith.

    I'll leave that to discussion!

    ROOSTER
    Cosmichail
    Rince
    JesusOnEez - Just Played
    Mice - Up
    Vra379971 - On Deck

    We'll leave the roster as it is if that's OK with everyone (after my swapping about).
     

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  7. mice

    mice Moose

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    Got it . The preists in Rome idea sounds good. I'm keen to get that shrine too.

    So I need further discussion on the tech path. Alphabet or press forward to Mathematics then construction/currency. The problem with going Monotheism is that the AI takes the same path, so not much to trade.

    Good news that Louis had lightly defended cities. We could consider an axe/preat rush on a couple of them, and Paris with catapults.
     
  8. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    True, but Alphabet is an expensive(ish) tech, and our primary aim is to spread the faith. Straight researching of Monotheism is the quickest way to do that which is why I went for it. I would probably go for Alphabet next, see if we can tech trade for the relevant tech for building temples (for the priest), then head for Construction/Currency.

    I was tempted to go straight for Lyon, but we couldn't afford to keep it...we'll nab it when we've got a Market or two on the go after Currency with Praets and Cats (maybe).
     
  9. mice

    mice Moose

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    Turn 0 moved some miltary towards Neopolis (but thinking now maybe better to wait near Antium- see end of post)

    T1 Started Wboat in Pisae. Scouting Louis with the scout. Set scout workboat to continue behind Hatty's land. It could go to work in Pisae, but we might find another civ behind the Egyptian lands.

    T2 Worker in Pisae by galley to Rome. Scout reveals tours , also lightly defended.
    Cottage finished in Pisae, working it! Boy we need cottages.

    T3 Monotheism in. Alphabet started. I'm working all the commerce tiles available to speed this up. That means all the sea tiles (except Rome's mine).
    Didnt revolt to Org religion. Will leave that till later or another player(expensive).

    T4 I open borders with Hatty in order to scout her out.

    T5 Start worker in Cumae. We need them.

    T6 zzz

    T7 Start an axe in Pisae. Bit worried that we could lose that city to barbs.
    Christianity spread to Orleans !!
    Start a worker in Rome after the library finishes. He can go to Antium to do cottages.
    Cottage finished in Cumae , and, I work it !

    T8 Pyramids built somewhere.

    T9 Alphabet done in 7.

    T10 ???? , I dunno, I must have skipped a turn because my game says turn 75 which should be right.So I stopped at Turn 9
    It's 125 AD.


    Idea; Instead of draging our stack over land to Lyon, we could attack Orleans by galley. We have 4 preats, one on the way and an axe. My idea is to leave Neoplis unprotected after whipping it down to 1 pop. Louis might raze it while we attack Orlean. Then we could relocate it as long as we defend Cumae.

    We have 1 galley, we need two = 4 preats, and then reinforce leaving from near Antium.

    As Orlean is Christian now, it's like we are liberating it.



    Edit:Forgot to mention, I chopped in Rome to make space for a cottage. This will lower health, but I traded with Hatty for fish so we are back to OK. Also we plenty of food to compensate for a little unhealth.
     

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  10. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Remember...Louis had a rather large stack brewing in Paris, so we'd firstly need to be able to take Orleans before that stack gets there. Secondly, defend Orleans when the stack arrives to take the city back. We'll need more than a couple of Praets for that...
     
  11. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Okay...will snap to it.
     
  12. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    I think if we don't hear from Vra soon we should skip him. Jesusoneez just say so and I can pick this up and play well within 48 hrs.
     
  13. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Nah, it's played. It's been that sorta of week, had to deal with an infection and a doctor visit.
     
  14. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Turn 0: Dear mice forgot to mention Fredrick has colonized our island. There is also a settler on the rice that seems rather aimless. So, I settle on the rice as I'm afraid of having more foreign parties, and it seems to be a good spot for cottaging.

    Turn 1: Fiddle a bit, nothing exciting...

    Turn 2: Build a worker, try and cottage up Neopolis.

    Turns 3-5: Do a bit of roadwork/cottaging. Scout out France. Weak as water he is.

    Turn 6: I send a Legion over to the island just in case.

    Turn 7: Nothing really...

    Turn 8: Confu founded, and Louis decided to organize his religion. Better yet, we can get alphabet.

    I stop here...We now have the following available...

    Louis has Math, Arch, and won't trade HR. We have Iron Working and Alpha on him.

    Hatty has Priesthood, Arch, Math and Meditation. We have nothing on her.

    Fred has Priesthood, Arch, Math, Meditation and Metal Casting, which he won't trade. We have alpha on him.

    My suggestion...let's open hostilities against Lous next turnset and cripple him quickly as he has no military. Beeline to Lit, and build the GL, which will allows to compete on the sci department while we conquer our way to Paris.

    If you want peace, prepare for war!
     

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  15. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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  16. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    VRA, I see what you're saying about having a crack at Louis, but he had a big army in Paris in my turnset...take a look at the screenshot I produced in my turn report. Can we defend against it? Not sure.

    I'll leave it to Cosmic to decide on that one, but I'm still more for spreading the faith, popping a prophet for the shrine and getting our cash through mass religion spread, rather than wasting a lot of hammers on the path to Literature and the GL.
     
  17. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    It's 11 turns to lit, and the first city we hit of Louis gives us marble. As for the "big" stack. I wouldn't worry. We have Prats. I'd be shoked if he sends it at us. If you're worried, occupy a forest/hill sqaure if tehy come. but, that's to be worried about when it comes.

    If needed, an old trick. Vacate a captured city. Let them retake. Set upon with city raider Prats.
     
  18. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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  19. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Will take a look at the save and post some comments and see where we stand. Got it and once we have team discussion will play.
     
  20. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Ok had a look at the save:

    Louis has no iron ergo no swords but does have math likewise for Fred/Hatty. We are in terrible shape happy wise. All our cities are stuck at 5 or 6 and Rome has 3 red faces. Whip those faces away already. (my point on math is that Louis/Fred/Hatty aren't far away from cats which could pose a problem)

    We have no strong production and Cumae a city that could produce somewhat is working ocean tiles. Rome should have a priest too for the shrine but can't do much with all that unhappiness but needs a temple. That would require priesthood.

    Trade options

    My suggestion is we can get math from Louis and from Fred priesthood/meditation/archery for alphabet. Hatty already has alphabet so that cat is out of the proverbial bag. We then could build temples in our cities to increase happy since we don't have any happy resources. (gold that's it)

    War department

    We could probably pull off taking a city or two but we only have like four praets and personally I would prefer to enter the battlefield with axe accompaniment. Louis does have copper so he can counter with axes to our praets and likely will. After we take a city the trick VRA suggest is good since if axes come to the aid of the city at least they will get involved in garrison rather than counter attack. I never used this tactic and tend to leave one unit if I think a counterattack is imminent so that the AI will scramble to reinforce and start again with attacks. Again just using praets is risky since they may have Horse archers too which can prove to be a problem as well.

    My idea of a bare minimum attack force for this campaign:

    4 praets
    1 axe
    1 sword
    2 cats

    Without cats forget about Paris or any other heavy culture cities. So we could engage without cats for a short period to hurt Louis. Even CD2 archers with 50-60% culture defense can be difficult to take out.

    What we need

    Priesthood for temples, whip temple in Rome and put up a priest
    (geez 230 ad and no Great prophet yet?????)
    I usually have Great prophet in the BC's

    Revolt to OR (why hasn't this been done and spreading the religion??)

    Change from lit to construction (trust me Hatty is on that path already and we simply don't have the production nor marble to build GL.) Let her build it and we can take it from her less hammers for us to use since we haven't got that much)
    Yes taking Lyons might provide us with marble but Louis's trait may stop that from happening and once we take that city how are we to garrison it and let the troops continue on??

    I am not against war soon but we need to get our house in order first. If we declare that too will add to unhappy so we need to deal with that first.

    Then plan for war with the ability to garrison the city and let the offensive units move on. Louis is weak but once AI is under war pressure they rectify pretty quick sometimes.

    So if all is in agreement then make the trades put up some temples revolt to OR and get some missionaries out. (also put up priest specialist in Rome asap) Get an army together and next turnset should be able to war without too much problems with unhappy. PS I love warring and can see that Lyons will fall easy but Louis only has to send over one galley and rice city is gone.

    We need to ensure we keep something back if that happens. Also we need a Trireme or two to protect our sea resources as the first thing the AI does is pillage that. We can't afford to loose that so we need to protect that as well so maybe whip a couple Triremes out too.

    Religion

    Only two cities need the faith. After that we could go onto to Louis's cities but I'm not liking that because of culture defense. He is hindu so it won't affect it but will still be able to build temples/monasteries and give us culture grief.

    Will play tonight with the proposed plans unless I hear different.
     

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