Jumpmasters 1B: Power is Knowledge (Vanilla, GOTM mod - Emperor - No research)

[Mistfit]

Ok I will play the correct turns Friday (+24 hrs)

good turns Gator

One question though:

4) As 1 shield cities complete temples, marketplaces and aqueducts switch them to wealth.

One shield cities would take 260 turns to complete these things. Are you rushing them to turn them to wealth quicker? This seems counter productive to me. I can see rushing the temples to gain territory but what is the use of the Market and Aqueduct? Will these cities every get the chance to reach over size 6? Do we need them to? Or would we be better served rushing the temples and then turning them to wealth righ away for the 2gpt? This is not my strong suit so I need guidance from the GoldWingers

 

[DJMGator13]

One shield cities would take 260 turns to complete these things. Are you rushing them to turn them to wealth quicker? This seems counter productive to me. I can see rushing the temples to gain territory but what is the use of the Market and Aqueduct? Will these cities every get the chance to reach over size 6? Do we need them to? Or would we be better served rushing the temples and then turning them to wealth righ away for the 2gpt? This is not my strong suit so I need guidance from the GoldWingers

Yes I was rushing them. Rationale for each. Temples for the cultural expansion, as you stated. Marketplaces in the larger cities (start at size 5 and up) for happiness. Aqeduct for growth & score (as a city approaches size 6). By rushing a few markets and setting a few cities to wealth I increase gpt by over 50 already.

I looked at the number of unhappy people in a city and was using that as my basis for where to rush marketplaces first. Obviously a size 2 city does not need a marketplace rushed. For the aqueduct look at the food available if a city can not grow past size six or seven don't worry with rushing the aqueduct. We have some cities in our original core that can not grow anymore because of the tight city placement, as an example.

Not real concerned with building a large treasury right now. I think we have bought all the techs we need to win. There is only 1 more tech that would be beneficial now (magnetisim) and considering the AI's want over 4500 gold for techs I don't think we need to buy anymore techs, might as well spend our money and make our people happy.

 

[Mistfit]

RL got in the way of important things like this turn set yesterday. I will play them tonight.

I did breifly look at the save. Can we make peace with the Ottomans right now to help with happiness? I don't think we will be attacking them with in 20 turns. Even if we do are we really concerned about a rep hit?

 

[DJMGator13]

Otto declared on us so we are actually getting War Happiness from them, so I would not make peace. IIRC we had about 20% WW at the end of my turns, we can live with that. As long as we don't have troops in OTTO territory or lose units to the OTTOs we should be fine.

Here is a good article from the War Academy on WW.

Your turnset may be pretty boring because we are in the process of transporting Cavs to the front lines, that is why I suggested that you may want to play 10, hoping that you would get a chance to use some of them.

Have fun.

 

[Mistfit]

PreTurn:
Linkoping or somthing like it gets a Clown
Hurry a couple of builds and change two. One from cannon to market in a 1 shield size 7 city (can't recall the name) and one from worker to Temple.

IBT:
Spot a Kwar Galley NE of Barb isle, it could be the roaming settler.
Most of my builds were either Cavalry(core cities) Cannon(Chosogabe land) Market/Aqueduct/Harbor/Wealth(outlying cities) this will pretty much hold true through my turnset. If sifferent I will note it.

Turn 1 (1060AD)
Mostly troop movement. Moving a couple of Caravals North by barb island to see if I can't rid the world of Kwar.
This is pretty difficult taking over someone elses turns. I know that the units were ment to go somewhere important but with out having played the turns my self I cant really say where. So I guess and hope for the best. I also founded a city called Meauwataka (I'd really be impressed if someone could guess why)

IBT
The English want to trade territory maps...nah
The french build Shakespeare's Theater in Paris for us.

Turn 2 (1070AD)
Start to bombard the Mononan 20 some odd bombardments at Zakros 1 hp dmg to musket
Destroy Rax in Knossos
Move and move somemore... Settle 3 cities (no weird names of my making)
MM AlanHville...It seems as if they wanted to riot because of to much

IBT
zzz...

Turn 3 (1080AD)
Bombard Gortys down to redline and attack gaining one promo to elite and Capture the city (BTW this is on the W side of Minonan lands)
Bombard Zakros down to redline and size 2 from 4 attack 1st vet musket with army - Army gets redlined and retreats. attack somemore and capture Zakros with 3 gold.
More troop movements

IBT
Add a floor to the west wing of the palace
Russians building Newton's Uni

Turn 4 (1090AD)
Bombard the 3 reg musket down to red in Nirou and capture the city and 4 gold

IBT
The Ottomans sink one of our Caravels (actually I completely forgot we were at war with them and I parked the Caravel right next to it :suicide: )

Turn 5 (1100AD)
It takes a long while but I bombard Phaistos down from size 9 to 6 and 3 musket 1 pike and 1 bow down and capture the city with 3 gold.
After loosing a Caravel I bring another to kill the Khwarizmian Caravel down and they are no longer in the game.
Move troops more and workers.

Hand Down report:
Well I took a bite out of the Minonans. More cavs are arriving all of the time. Their capital should fall next turn. Our army is healing in the NW of the minonan lands. Once we get past the flip chances we should rush a rax somewhere to heal that Army up. It has not healed a single point in 4 turns.
I've been bombarding the Minonan cities on the barb island but not taking them because they will auto raze if I do. I was hoping one of them would hit size two so we could take the city.

This has been very fun thanks for the lessons and advice. I doubt this will be around for much longer. MapStat shows we need 490 tiles. I took it down approx 150 tiles during my turns .

The Save 1100AD
Next Better Player:

 

[DJMGator13]

Nicely played

I was worried we did not have enough troops, to start your round, in Minoan land for you to be offensive. The bombard feature and multi attacks are a great equalizer for a lesser number of units. Good work on finding the Khwar galley, I looked all over for it and even bought their Wmap trying to find them.

I haven't looked at the save yet but has WW stayed in check?

 

[Mistfit]

WW is no problem. We have many happy people. Actually got an expansion of the palace. BTW I did not find the Kwar Caravel he found me. He showed up between the mainland and barb island and just sat there waiting for me to off him

 

[Karasu]

Hi folks, I'm back just in time to see you end the game, it seems.
I couldn't read through the entire thread, but I will take some time to enjoy it in the next days.

By the way, do you know that I visited a land named Khoresmia... it appears that it was repeatedly razed and burned by the Mongols

 

[Mistfit]

Welcome back Karasu. Rested and ready to mop up the rest of the world?

 

[DJMGator13]

Hi Karasu

Don't know how far you made it in the thread, but we picked up Mad Bax as a substitute for you and knowing that Alan was leaving soon.

Whenever you're ready to jump in for a round let us know.

 

[nikof]

Ciao Karasu! Welcome back.

Nice playing, Gator & Mistfit. Especially pushing Khwarizmian off his ocean throne! I had given up on chasing his galleys after I saw he had at least 4 of them - good persistence. I almost fell off my chair at:

Suza flips to the Kwarismian leader sitting in his mid-ocean throne room

Karasu - if you'd like to play the next round you're more than welcome to it, otherwise I'll pick it up in the morning & play over the next couple of days.

Cheers,
nikof

 

[Karasu]

Go ahead and play it, Nikof. I still have a lot of things to pick up with, and I will be more than happy to see you folks close this game.
Of course, if it is still alive when I am ready...

 

[nikof]

Got it.

This looks great! I'll work on ridding the world of Minoans. After that, it looks like the Arabs are the logical next target (same land mass as Minoans). Between those two, there are 350 tiles available of our 479 needed. I bet we can make up the rest in currently unclaimed tiles by the time we've finished slogging through the jungle in Arabia. There are some free tiles still in our conquered lands, including some coast surrounding small islands. And it looks like Barb Island has approximately the remaining tiles we need.

Imho, it would be fastest to hustle a bunch of Settlers (and Workers for roads) over to Barb Island, settle it fully, and once we conquer Arabia that should be the game. However, it might be more artistic to wait until we can get our Steppe Settlers. For that, we'd need Physics and ToG. Russia and France have Physics, but won't sell it now. I seem to remember from back in the thread that tech is getting very expensive to buy. So if we want Physics and ToG, we'll probably need to use pointy stick research? The Arabs might get Physics by the time we're in a position to request it from them.

Let me know if you have strong opinions on this. If not, I'll work on Barb Island.

Arabs have Cataphract (4/2/3), and quite likely Cavalry by now - we may want a few Muskets to bolster the attacking forces. Any recent thoughts on how our units, with their defensive bombard, have held up against higher-powered attackers?

...and I like the contrast on F8 between our "Power" and "Culture" scores!

 

[DJMGator13]

Very good analysis nikof.

1. Arabia is the next logical target.

2. Tile count for Domination. Do you have Dianthus' Mapstat program that Mistfit and I are using? It is very helpful at this stage of the game. On the free tile search do not forget to look for points in our territory that can gain us coastal tiles on expansion. The cities do not have to be productive. They only need to take up space. I'll try to post picture of a few point later today.

3. On the Steppe Settlers we could take the game to within a few tiles of domination and then wait for the the Steppes. I have never seen them either, so it might be fun to watch them. By then we should be done warring and preparing our lands for victory, so the gold spent on the techs will not hurt us. Keep a track of our growth in score in your turn log. SirPleb has a very nice score calculator which includes the end game bonus, so we can calculate our ending score if we had triggered Dom at the earlier date.

4. When we get Arabia down to one city it may be wothwhile to sue for peace and gain techs if they have some that we need. Would help towards #3.

5. The contrast between power graph and culture graph is routine in warmongering type games. If you look at some of the saves from the top GOTMers you'll see that they frequently only have barracks, granary and either temples or libraries to gain the cultural expansion in their cities. The rest of their shields are in offensive units.

 

[Mistfit]

towards the end of my turnset I had started to pull some workers from the mainland over to barb island for you. I think I would peel some settlers off of the island to the East of our homeland to send to barb island. Once they get there go ahead and kill off the two cities that the Minonans have there as well. As to your comment about our ability to hold up to attack I can't really say because I was never attacked in my last turnset before the unit was redlined from bombardment. I can tell you that to have any chance against muskets you need to redline them 1st yellow is not a good chance in my experiance. Good luck and have fun.

 

[nikof]

Mid-turn update: the Minoans have discovered the secret location, previously known to the Khwarizmians, of the mid-oceanic throne room.

 

[DJMGator13]

Hey Mistfit, we should have used that throne room in our great SGOTM03

 

[DJMGator13]

Here's the example of grabbing extra tiles towards the Domination limit by building on coastal points. The 3 cities I would build would gain us 15 additional tiles when their Cultural Border (CB) has expanded once, what I called CB 2 in the image.

Correction: The purple one only gains us 3 not 4 tiles, the next tile SE (not pictured) is already being counted.

The cities do not need to be productive they only need to take up space. I would then build/rush either a temple or library whichever is cheaper depending on your civ traits.

 

[Mistfit]

I would have never thought of that gator... More learnin. Good Stuff.

 

[nikof]

These were fun turns! Conquest, troop transport, filling in borders.
@Gator - I didn't build in your spots (saw the post too late) but did similar things in a number of other places. Noted in turnlog, I'll try for some pics tomorrow. Remember sea doesn't count for domination, only coast - so your red example would be 5 tiles, I think.

Turn 0, 1100 AD
- rediscover joy of micromanagement. Notice that we have a lot of happy Mongols - set lux slider to 0% from 20%. Gain 230 gpt. Rush Marketplace in Ta-tu, give Atlay some specialists (Market will complete in 6, so why rush), Arvayheer a specialist & switch to Settler, switch Darhan from Temple to Market (border expansion doesn't gain any land or coast), Hutag to Market. All other cities okay for now.
- only 128 gold left, so won't hurry anything else until next turn.
- switch tiles between Karakorum & neighbours, so it will stop starving.
- switch some Northern cities to Settlers.

IBT- not much.

Turn 1, 1110 AD
- bomb Knossos to 6pop, redline muskets, take the city and the Great Wall. 2 Minoans their claim to be "happy" - I don't believe them, they get short rations anyway.
- rush a couple of settlers.

IBT
- Grr, wrote down that I needed to check happiness, but didn't and got 2 riots.

Turn 2, 1120 AD, score 3498
- bomb Malia to pop2, 2 Muskets are still 3/4 but I don't want to risk autoraze. This may be ugly... 2 vCal redline, 2 others kill Muskets, one promotes.
- Komos - also bomb to pop2, but Muskets still at 3hp. 1 Cavalry redlines, another kills and promotes, third takes city and creates Great Leader, Chagatai. Immediately rush Military Academy in Malia.
- Destroy Minoan cities of Ierapytha, Arkhanes on Barb Island. No cities left - but he's hanging around. Another round of hunt-for-the-oceanic-throne, anyone?
- declare peace with Minoa. They wouldn't give up Democracy. Now 0% WW.
- rush 4 Temples, 3 Settlers (for Barb Island)
- move troops towards Arabia.
- found Karakorum 2, SE corner of map.
- got the ship chain to work!
- why don't our Caravels sink in Ocean?

IBT
- borders expand, some WLGKD, exhaust 1 of 9 Iron sources. Despite my accidental incursion, Arabs don't ask our 1 Cavalry to leave. Russian Settler lands on Barb Island.

Turn 3, 1130 AD, score 3560
- rush Barracks in Gortys (most Western Minoa city).
- rush Settler, 4 Temples.
- found Ta-tu 2. SE of map.
- Move troops towards Arabia - will declare next turn, then enter.

IBT
- spot Minoan Caravel, conveniently near my ship chain...
- Russians declare war on us! Perhaps they didn't appreciate it when I immediately surrounded their settler? Their wayward Knight attacks Tsingtao and is crushed.

Turn 4, 1140 AD, score 3625
- Arabs have Physics!
- 0% WW. I declare on the Arabs, after they decline to gift us with Physics.
- I attack Minoan Caravel. 22% WW. One Caravel dies, the other destroys the fragile Minoans. Short war.
- Amnessos (Arab) - bomb to pop6, bomb Musket to redline. Oops, I thought I had more Cavs - oh well, Ordu Archer with 2hp left takes the city. WW back to 0%.
- Cadiz - have to attack across a river to get it this turn, but only guarded by Spears. Bombards fail, one Cav redlines killing a Spear, the other kills with no hp loss and promotes. City captured.
- Southern task force advances towards Anjar. 22 Hordes, handful of Cav, more coming.
- fail to dislodge new Russian city on Barb Island (lose 1 Cav in the process). He has a Rifleman and a Musket. Hmm... will need more troops for that. Retreat, skirmish, reinforce I think.
- Move 3 Cav to Barb Island, and
- rush Barracks in Cirta, for healing Northern task force. Rush 2 Temples, and Library in Yaizu (Southern end of ex-Raja lands) to try to fill in border holes on 2nd expansion (cost the same as a Temple rush, since had some shields). 2 Settlers for infill in Southern islands.

IBT
- Arab Knight (Cataphract) kills himself on a Cavalry. 3 other Cataphracts studiously ignore our troops. Russian Knight on Barb Isle kills a Bowman.

Turn 5, 1150 AD, score 3690
- WW 0%.
- Anjar (Arab) bombed surprisingly easily. Musket, Spear redlined by 3 Hordes, pop still 8 but that's okay. Hmm... lost one vCav, another killed Musket & promoted, eCav takes Anjar.
- Fustad - scout around Arab forces, to see pop5 city guarded by a regular Spear. [rubs hands]. 2 Cavs take the city unaided. Other troops in area clean up enemy units. One eHorde kills 2 Cataphracts and a Bowman in one turn, and doesn't create a Leader!
- move half-dozen troops to Eden, peninsula between our new conquests and the Arabs. A nifty little transport move is slightly altered by presence of enemy troops on shore, but should be fine for the next player.
- Elite Horde gets a triple-Cataphract kill. No Leader.
- 8 Cavalry are nicely healed in Gortys. Move them, and a shed-load of other troops, into position

Hand-off Notes
- I didn't automate any workers this turn. I even de-automated a few for Barb Island. Aren't you proud of me?
- there's 1652 gold to spend this turn. I leave that for the next player - recommend rushing temples in Arab captured cities that have produced a shield alread, and highly recommend rushing a Harbor in Malmo (Barb Island) so it can have the resources to rush some units. I almost lost it - coming under attack from troops off Russian Galleys. I think I got enough reinforcments there to last this turn, but it needs help! More attacks will come there, I think.
- troops are converging on Russian city on Barb Island. I think it's worth wiping their cities here off the map, so they don't have footholds to bring their strong units across.
- Settler near Samarkant should build a city one tile S of current position. Settler by New Gatorton could build 3 N of current position, but there are a few options.
- Barb Island Caravels aren't chained perfectly efficiently - but there are 6 Settlers on BI looking to fill in space. More workers could be brought over for roads, not sure if entirely necessary. Might want some more Cavalry there, however.
- there are Barracks in Gortiz (S of Arab lands) and Cirta (E of Northern Arab lands) for healing.
- ships other than in major troop transfer points (the Atlantic, Hippo, and Meauwataka) aren't doing much useful. If you can find them a purpose, go for it!
365 tiles to go!
Save for the next, better player